To dust or not to dust

Hi.

I have a question I would love to hear your comments on.

I went into town a week ago to buy dusting powder to do all my birds. I do them twice a year. December and June. Not one of the feeds stores, UFA, Peavey Mart, Keddies Western Wear, or Champion feed had any left. All have it on order. I am thinking about trying Ivomic liquid again. I used it years ago but there was concerns by several people about it affecting fertility. But now I am hearing it does not affect fertility. I may have to use it anyway as it is so much work to catch and dust over 200 birds. It is much easier to get ten little syringes ready and then go into a pen and put a drop on each bird. I used a large dog kennel to put each bird in after I treated it, to make sure I didn't miss any. Then on to the next pen. Which method do you use, have you heard anything about it affecting or not affecting fertility?

Perry

When I heard about the effect that dusting powder had on ME and my kid (who was my helper) is when I ditched it. My health trumps bird fertility.

There are so many more effective ways to deal with crawling critters ALL the time, not just twice a year, that I view dusting powder as old school.

Ivomec is NOT your only pour-on option. Eprinex is used too. No pest strips as back-up to insure the crawlers don't come back.

Powder....you have better options.

What are you dusting for? Lice, mites or both? I like Eprinex for lice but have heard it is hard on fertility. I haven't any experience here. I do like there is no egg toss with eprinex. A bottle goes a long way.

For mites I use Frontline. It will get the lice too. In fact it gets everything. It is only found in the US and it has no info on chicken use, but I spoke to a doctor who is also a chicken fancier who says you would have to drink more than a bottle of it yourself in order to have any ill effects. When I use it I will eat the eggs myself but not sell them.

I found Frontline does not affect fertility.

Don't forget Cydectin (Moxidectin). It is not as common, but I use it when I can. They like it in Australia because it doesn't kill the dung beetles like the other livestock wormers do.

Coopslave, do you need to go to the vet for that?

Schipperkesue wrote:Coopslave, do you need to go to the vet for that?

Not sure about it here, haven't used it since we moved back. Just got it like the rest of the stuff in Australia.

Hubby just said you should be able to find it, I will ask next time I get some cattle stuff.

Hi

I was thing Ivomec pour-on. What is the difference between it and Front Line or Eprinex. Is one of them known to affect fertility for sure?

Confused as to. Which is the best?

Where do you buy the frontline sue? Thanks

Eprinex only hits lice. I find it does not affect mites. Others have reported otherwise. It can be bought in Canada. There is no egg toss.

Frontline is for dogs and cats. It will look lice, mites, ticks and fleas. In fact it will look fleas in all stages from eggs to adults. It is off label for chickens and cannot be bought in Canada. I ordered pour on from the US on eBay. There was no trouble getting it though I understand there could be issues. This time I ordered spray on. I think the application will be easier. I can let you know when it arrives.

I always order this product from the US ebay sites. It is also offered from Thailand.

Schipperkesue wrote: I ordered from the US on eBay. There was no trouble getting it though I understand there could be issues. This time I ordered spray on. I think the application will be easier. I can let you know when it arrives.
I always order this product from the US ebay sites. It is also offered from Thailand.

Yes please do... Thanks
Kimball

bcboy wrote:

Schipperkesue wrote: I ordered from the US on eBay. There was no trouble getting it though I understand there could be issues. This time I ordered spray on. I think the application will be easier. I can let you know when it arrives.
I always order this product from the US ebay sites. It is also offered from Thailand.

Yes please do... Thanks
Kimball

Hi Sue. Please let me know when you get it and how it works! It sounds interesting. With a spray on how much would you use for each bird. Do you have to spray on skin or will it goes through the feathers?

Sounds like I might like spray on with 200 birds to do.

Schipperkesue wrote:What are you dusting for? Lice, mites or both? I like Eprinex for lice but have heard it is hard on fertility. I haven't any experience here. I do like there is no egg toss with eprinex. A bottle goes a long way.

For mites I use Frontline. It will get the lice too. In fact it gets everything. It is only found in the US and it has no info on chicken use, but I spoke to a doctor who is also a chicken fancier who says you would have to drink more than a bottle of it yourself in order to have any ill effects. When I use it I will eat the eggs myself but not sell them.

I found Frontline does not affect fertility.

Sue, I am also adding Frontline to my anti-bug arsenal. But a good friend who uses it warned me that temporary infertility can affect the roosters, so it may be best to be safe and take care with the timing. But it is great to know of something that is so effective on those stubborn mites.

Perry, since none of htese products have been tested for use on poultry, any information about fertility is purely anecdotal. I am a big belieer in listening to the experiences of others, so their word is a good place to start.

But for rock solid facts on fertility, you're not going to find it. THese products for large livestock have (mostly) NOT been tested on poultry, thus the term 'off label use.'

I used the drops last summer with great results. No loss in fertility. It came in a package of 6 ampules, each the size to do a large dog. At one drop per bird i could get about 120 drops from one ampule. The spray will be new for me. I am not sure how far it will go.

Perry, do you find the bantam Cornish to be particularly susceptible to mites?

Hi Perry, I do not dust my birds individually but I splash it all over the floor, roosts , all cracks and the nest box's when I clean the coop. I use one full bottle of dusting powder for each 9x10 coop and i have not had mites or lice in over 12 years. I do have ivormectin but really haven't used it since I haven't had an infestation. I have heard that having dusting powder in the nest box's can affect the hatch ability of the eggs but I don't see a difference. I also hang those no pest strips in my coops but I don't change them every 3 months as recommended only when they look pretty plugged up with dust. Good luck with what ever you do. Happy new year

Dan, the dust recommends egg withdrawal. How long after treating a coop do you withdraw eggs?

Perryschofield wrote:

bcboy wrote:

Schipperkesue wrote: I ordered from the US on eBay. There was no trouble getting it though I understand there could be issues. This time I ordered spray on. I think the application will be easier. I can let you know when it arrives.
I always order this product from the US ebay sites. It is also offered from Thailand.

Yes please do... Thanks
Kimball

Hi Sue. Please let me know when you get it and how it works! It sounds interesting. With a spray on how much would you use for each bird. Do you have to spray on skin or will it goes through the feathers?

Sounds like I might like spray on with 200 birds to do.

Hi Perry

I use one full spray right onto the vent for adult chickens and a smaller spray for younger birds or bantam breeds. The fellow I got mine from brought in a case from the states and may still have some for sale if you would like me to contact him.

XOX Monika

Schipperkesue wrote:I used the drops last summer with great results. No loss in fertility. It came in a package of 6 ampules, each the size to do a large dog. At one drop per bird i could get about 120 drops from one ampule. The spray will be new for me. I am not sure how far it will go.

Perry, do you find the bantam Cornish to be particularly susceptible to mites?

They have a hard feather. I am not sure if this makes more problems for them.


Perry

Just adding to Sue's advice.

Frontline you need to order from the US as the product was withdrawn for use by the CFIA here in Canada years ago over concerns that it can make some dogs sick.

When I order off of eBay, you want to look for a seller who will ship to Canada. Thankfully, lots of them.

Read the ads and order Frontline for the heaviest dogs possible. Frontline comes in small packets that are measured according to the dogs/cats weight. However, many sellers charge the same price for their Frontline regardless if the dosed packets are for small, medium or large dogs. As you are going to be taking these packets and dumping them into a bottle and using a dropper to put 3 to 5 drop on each bird, it makes it cost efficent to simply buy the packets meant for large sized dogs.

Make sure that you are buying real Frontline. There is knock off product from China. Real Frontline does not have an expiration date. It is in fact good for a long time. Just store your bottle in a cool place, away from direct heat [to avoid evaporation.]

Last thing, Frontline does kill mites IF you follow the instructions properly. It takes a few applications to completely rid mites. Frontline is not absorbed into the bloodstream but works by using the fur's natural oil to spread itself over the body. In this case, the oil from feathers. I think to this is one good reason why the Frontline doesn't mess up a bird's fertility cycle too.

I had mites bad. Battled them for over a year. First application with Frontline saw results within 72 hours. I then reapplied within 7 to 10 days to kill any new gnats that hatched and to get those that might have been missed. Then after 30 days, I re-treated again. Now I only treat every 3 months as a control. I have been mite free since September 2012.

This worked well as I was treating for Northern Fowl Mites. If you have Red Mites, I would still recommend Frontline BUT have to stress a secondary treatment for the coop as Red Mites live off the bird. I don't know how well it would work on Red Mites alone.
Northern Fowl Mites though, Frontline will do the job.

Toybarons, you need to add that as a signature line:

"Mite free since September 2012!"

Schipperkesue wrote:Dan, the dust recommends egg withdrawal. How long after treating a coop do you withdraw eggs?

Hi Sue, I don't withdraw the eggs. I still hatch with reasonable success and I have been eating them with no side effects that I notice. No cancer, diarrhea or other issues. I don't go out of the way to cover the eggs with the powder but when the hens stir up the shavings in the nest I am sure that there is some contact with the powder. I know that the egg shell is porous but I would guess that the inside membrane would prevent the powder from contacting the egg white and yoke.

Dan, I would be more worried about the hen absorbing the dust chemical thought her skin by contact, then having it deposit in the egg as it develops inside her body. I am sure it would not be an issue for fertility but the idea of eating that chemical is as worrisome to me as breathing it in.

However, I tend to be overly cautious and even if a chemical is considered safe for meat and eggs, I still wait about a week before eating them.

Schipperkesue wrote:Toybarons, you need to add that as a signature line:

"Mite free since September 2012!"

Sorry. Lice first problem. Wasn't able to do it this fall and when I went to do couldn't find any in Grande Prairie. Everybody had it coming.

Decided to order Frontline yesterday on EBay. Am thinking of using it in combination with Ivomic. One drop of Ivomec on each bird and 2 weeks later a Frontline treatment. Was thinking this should get everything.

How young can you use either on young birds? Just hatched, 1,2,3 weeks old? 1 month or more?

Perry

I don't know Perry. I guess we will have to try it out.

Pretty confusing. I am wondering how a couple of drops can be spread to a large area. Oh well, just thinkin'. I think the next time I purchase Frontline, I think that I would go for the spray. To me, that makes more sense, as the product more quickly would cover a large area. The backend and belly bottom of a chicken is quite large. Still not getting how a couple of drops of a product could be spread around. I have some vials of this product that I poured into a eye drop bottle. Wonder if it could be made into a spray for ease of application. Have an awesome day, CynthiaM.