Meat Birds?-what would you use?

My neighbor who has been in the poultry business has decided that she no longer wants to do it. So, we are looking into different types of birds and what one would use for meat. ....if one were to do such a thing..... I have heard people mention cornish..then my husband talked about getting his own bird stuffed as a child...but we are looking for a sizable bird.
There is something about the meat birds that freaks me out...some genetic mumbo-jumbo.
Educate me please  
Are there any particular breeds we should be looking at to fill our freezer with roasters?

Oh Bigrock, nothing like opening that can of worms!

You are going to hear from a chorus of members here, extolling the virtues of the dual purpose or heritage breeds. IT sounds something like this : I fed my extra rooster for 8 months to get him to a lousy 5 pound carcass weight. When you factor in time and cost, that is the most expensive, and perhaps toughest bird you will ever eat. The next thing you will hear is that, well, yeah, he may be a 'little chewier' than meat birds, so you just have to know how to cook him. If you have a nuclear reactor in your back yard you can nuke him for a day or two to make him chewable. Not only do you have a bird that has taken you longer to raise, cost you more to raise, but your idea that they will all turn out to be Sunday roast birds to set on the table whole...guess again. Because he requires 'special' cooking methods.

(people are preparing their slings and arrows for me as I type this, I can feel it!  )

If you are having a Harrowsmith, Mother Earth News moment and feel the need to suffer a little for your food, hey, knock yourself out. Raise these 'other' birds.

But, if you want to raise birds once a year, for a few weeks and put 5, 6or 7 pound carcasses in the freezer, meat birds are the way to go. Give them a short, happy life then off with their heads! They are the type of bird to serve whole and carve at the table for Sunday dinner with the folks.

And about genetic weirdness, this is utterly false with meat birds. When you cross a German Shepherd with a Border Collie, do you have dogs that are genetic mutants? No. You have dogs. Mixed breed dogs, but 100% pure dog genetics. A meat bird is 100% pure chicken. It has just been crossed and re-crossed with specially selected chickens to get specially selected results. But there has been no splicing in of whale or gorilla genetics. There is a UNIVERSE of difference between selective breeding within a species and adding some genetic material from a different species! So if anyone tells you a meat bird has been genetically altered, they are horribly uninformed. Laugh at them.

Do meat birds have problems? Yes. Is that the debate here? No. Do they outperform dual purpose/heritage birds? Absolutely. Are they genetically altered? No. Are dual purpose/heritage bad eating? Not according to CynthiaM and others. According to me, they are more work than it's worth for a chicken dinner. But that is just MY philosophy. I want to raise them quick, know what the outcome will be, and be done with it. If you are interested in a different chicken experience, then you might want to consider dual/heritage.

Okanagan Hatchery in Armstrong sells day old meat birds year round.

We butcher or have butchered the various dual purpose chickens we raise. The meat is a bit denser than meat from the Cornish Giants and needs to be cooked slower and at a lower temperature. They crock pot well. We raised a batch of Mistral Gris from TruNorth Hatchery with very good results. They behave like regular chickens and do not have the health problems of the Cornish Giants. Our processor doesn't like the coloured poultry and we will need to find a different processor next year.

I am planning on trying out a White Cornish/White Chantecler cross next year to see what kind of meaties I get from it.

My Cornish cockerel is 13 weeks old and I picked him up today and he's definitely eating size - a little bigger than the pre-cooked chickens you can get at the grocery store. Now, he's just been fed regular chick starter to 7 or 8 weeks old and then onto pullet grower, along with grass and scraps and grains and such. He sure feels tender and delicious. It was all I could do not to take a bite out of him as I held his hot little body. Yum!

I am thinking as a cross, I could probably butcher at around the 15, 16 week mark, if I'm feeding them differently - that is, with the intention is butchering as soon as possible - but I also don't want a huge carcass. Last time we did broilers, some of them hovered around that 10 lb. mark and that's just too big - like cooking a small turkey. 5 or 6 lbs is a good size for our family.

Authentic, that sounds interesting. I look forward to hearing the results.

I process and eat a heritage breed because that is what I raise (Partridge Chanteclers). I have to grow my cockerels out anyways to pick the best ones for the breeding pen and I don't really want to make hard and fast decisions about that before 22-24 weeks anyways.
So I feed them all like I am going to eat them. I kept the ones I think are the best to use or sell and I eat the rest. Waste not want not.

Now if I was not amusing myself with a heritage breed, would I choose them to put in my freezer? Probably not. Not sure if I would go with a straight mutant 6 week bird either. I think I would find a happy medium with a rainbow ranger, freedom ranger of mistral gris. Take longer than 6 weeks but not anywhere near 24 weeks. Just makes economic sense to me.

I do not find the heritage birds tough. I thought that I would and hubby is very picky and he likes them. They are firmer, but you have to rest them (Uno!) before you put them in the freezer. My first ones I dry roasted just like a store chook and they were good. I do cook them a little slower now with some chicken stock now, but they are not tough.

coopslave wrote:Authentic, that sounds interesting.  I look forward to hearing the results.

I process and eat a heritage breed because that is what I raise (Partridge Chanteclers).  I have to grow my cockerels out anyways to pick the best ones for the breeding pen and I don't really want to make hard and fast decisions about that before 22-24 weeks anyways.
So I feed them all like I am going to eat them.  I kept the ones I think are the best to use or sell and I eat the rest.  Waste not want not.

Now if I was not amusing myself with a heritage breed, would I choose them to put in my freezer?  Probably not.  Not sure if I would go with a straight mutant 6 week bird either.  I think I would find a happy medium with a rainbow ranger, freedom ranger of mistral gris.  Take longer than 6 weeks but not anywhere near 24 weeks.  Just makes economic sense to me.

I do not find the heritage birds tough.  I thought that I would and hubby is very picky and he likes them.  They are firmer, but you have to rest them (Uno!) before you put them in the freezer.  My first ones I dry roasted just like a store chook and they were good.  I do cook them a little slower now with some chicken stock now, but they are not tough.

Do you have any pictures of the dressed birds? How much did your dressed birds weight?
Thanks for your time.
Kimball.

It is more expensive to raise, and have processed, Heritage birds.  The processors like the wide orifice genetically opted towards in the commercial meaties to remove organs through that is lacking in the H birds.  I hope that makes sense.  Also, heritage birds, being older and I believe more intelligent than the commercial meaties, fight harder when it comes to that crucial time at the abbatoir.  This is my understanding anyway.  I've only ever processed commercial meaties myself, and have taken excess roosters to Camp Freezerburn in Pritchard.

I love a nice crocked cock myself, but when it comes to roasted bird, IMHO, nothing can beat the commercial birds.  And as Uno said, I buy mine from Okanagan Hatchery over by McLeod Subdivision.

I'm going to raise a bunch next spring if you want to 'co-op' with me.
xo

I'd divide meat birds into 3 categories

1. Heritage birds - usually roosters kept for 20 weeks or more to mature.  Generally I'd say you would want to be keeping them for more than just meat purposes - you are interested in the breed, like the egg laying abilities or something other than just for meat.  Lots of different breeds can be used, but some are better than the rest for meat - many were used for meat birds historically, some are "dual purpose" (eggs and meat). They cost more to raise because they have to be kept for longer before they are meaty enough to butcher, but they do tend to eat more than just what's in the feeder. There are lots of threads on whether they are good eating, tough, skinny etc.  Lots of different opinions.  These birds tend to live long lives and reproduce true to type. My butcher charges the same for every chicken I bring in - rooster, hen, large small, conventional or heritage, white or coloured. Maybe I'm lucky that way.

2. A 'rustic brolier' like the Mistral Gris, Freedom Ranger, Rainbow ranger.  As Coop Slave says, they take longer than the conventional meat bird to mature but do free range a bit and can be kept for longer than the maturity date without falling over dead.  Because they take longer than the conventional meat bird to mature they will need more feed but because they free range to some degree you have some hope of them rustling for a bit of their feed themselves.  They are more expensive as day old chicks than the conventional meat bird.  I had Mistral Gris this summer and butchered mine at 11 weeks.  Most were between 2 and 3 kilos and so far have been easy to roast and delicious.  They won't reproduce themselves as they are four way crosses.

3. The conventional meat birds you can buy as day old chicks from most hatcheries.  Most if not all white. These mature quickly and in fact won't live longer than their 6-8 week due by date. They also may die of heart or leg problems before then. They are inexpensive to buy and don't need as much feed to reach maturity because they mature earlier. They aren't much interested in grazing or free ranging and sometimes the distance between feeder and waterer is the only exercise they get.  They are generally not an attractive bird, but easy to cook - sort of fool proof - but there are differing opinions on how tasty they are. Some feel they are very bland/fatty/watery.  Because they live such short lives a great deal of their lives are spent proportionately under heat lamps waiting to get feathers.

I'm sure others will chime in here.

I grow the white "big dumb white meatbirds", for meat.
I've tried some of the other more heritage breeds, however although my customers like the "idea" of a free range heritage bird. They don't like the reality of the minimal breast and tougher meat.
I free range my meatbirds with adequate results. if you start them young enough they will totally scratch and graze.

Heritage/cross etc.
They are also, as someone mentioned more costly to process, as the roosters have a very narrow pelvic opening which which makes it difficult to gut, they also are older at time of processing so their guts are more difficult to get out, the skin is tougher to cut through and their feathers are harder to remove.
Processing the spent layers are a bit easier in some regards but more difficult in others.
a couple of things the layers have going for them, is larger pelvic opening, and not quite as tough of a skin as a rooster. However, dealing with the older bird still leaves one with the issue of harder to remove the feathers and of course guts that are hard to remove and covered in yolk, which is a bugger to clean up.

I've got Wyandottes (heritage) and am not super impressed with their carcass size. I'm working on that. The meat can be a chewy as well, but I'm learning better cooking/processing methods as I go along. I keep them because:

1. I like the idea of food that reproduces. This requires the birds to take care of the breeding on their own (and I wouldn't mind a broodie or two, haven't gotten one yet).
2. In order to reproduce, you have to make it through a winter that commonly bottoms out at -40. Wyandottes have a nice small comb and seem to be winter hardy for me. The hens lay through the winter (for me). Also, a summer that can hit +35 with 100% humidity is can be just as deadly to the heavy cornish crosses.
3. They are pretty reliable layers of large sized eggs.
4. Free range. With the price of pelleted ration these days, its nice to have birds that can supplement themselves.
5. They are pretty
6. You have something to work on, improving what you see lacking through breeding and selection of the traits -you- desire.

You may want to try Frankenbirds (Cornish crosses) or something like a Bergs Grazer if:
1. You have no winter facilities
2. You want/ need to be done with raising chickens for the year in 6-8 weeks.
3. Rapid feed conversion. And I do mean rapid. You'll be best friends with the feed store
4. Conventional carcass. This might be especially important if you plan to sell birds outside your home. Many people (understandably) look askance at the long, narrow frame of some heritage breeds. If you have a big family, commercial birds will likely be your best bet as far as meat in the freezer.
One caveat about the commercial meat birds: slaughter at exactly the recommended age, otherwise they will keep eating, and you'll end up with gobs of expensive fat in the carcass.

Some great points Swamp Hen.

My sister in law does two series of meat birds every spring/summer, gets them all butchered at 6-8 weeks, then goes away for the winter and doesn't have a single chicken to worry about.

Bcboy, first year I processed they looked like this:

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I think I have gotten a little better at it. On average my cockerels are between 4 and 5 pounds processed. I had some lovely ones this year I was very interested in and with the move they were coyote bait. Sad, but maybe next year.

I say go with true meaties. I used them. Free ranged them when they were 3 weeks old. The last 2 or so weeks I feed half pure grain and half grower. They have a beautiful fat layer and are nice and meaty. And its short and quick process. No extra roos crowing and fighting for months until processing.

I used millers cornish but I just bought 6 birds from a producer in armstrong who uses okanagan hatchery. Best chicken I have had in a long time. I bought 6 6lb ers.

YUmmy

fuzzylittlefriend wrote:I say go with true meaties.  I used them.  Free ranged them when they were 3 weeks old.  The last 2 or so weeks I feed half pure grain and half grower.  They have a beautiful fat layer and are nice and meaty.  And its short and quick process.  No extra roos crowing and fighting for months until processing.

I used millers cornish but I just bought 6 birds from a producer in armstrong who uses okanagan hatchery.  Best chicken I have had in a long time.  I bought 6 6lb ers.

YUmmy

we are doing the same next year, simple broiler birds, fast and great carcasses. Will have them on nice grass outside and grain and grower feed. My continental heritage breeds just do not compare to the feed to meat ratio and also need much more time. Those culls go to someone else.

I belive the commercial Cornish crosses give you the best bang for your buck. In other words your feed dollar buys you the most meat output in the fastest time.

Last year was our first ever try at meat birds and we did up MGs.  We set up our date at the processor, chicks arrived and 3 wks in processor cancelled.  We ended up getting help to process them but it was at about 24wks and they tasted great.  

This year I wanted to do MGs again but ended up ordering cornish Xs from hatchery with a friend.  We ordered 80 got 86 chicks and we processed 83 birds ourselves.  We over ordered because everything I read was that they keeled over from heart and leg issues.  We had 3 unexplained losses but they were the only ones.  

We raised the MGs and Cornish the same way and allowed them to free range during the day after about 3wks when the weather warmed up.  MGs were much better at going out on their own and acting more like heritage chickens but Cornish did go out.  The only thing about meaties is the poo O my freakin gawd its awful!  You have to get them outside daily so you can clean up the horrible stink and yuck.  Sad to say but by processing time it was a huge relief to have the stinkers go   The cornish X's we've had so far have been great.  

We've only had rotten little roos lose their heads and there was never really anything to them to bother processing.  We did try one but it was pretty darn pathetic and not much of a meal but we don't have nice big roos.  

Now when it comes to turkeys we've tried heritage and this year hatchery meaties.  Thought a few meat turkeys would be great well it was a disaster they kept dying on us no matter what we did so gave up and processed the last ones early so really chicken sized.  Our heritage turkeys we've had no problems with growing them and they taste great so we'll stick with them

uno wrote:

Okanagan Hatchery in Armstrong sells day old meat birds year round.

I telephoned this hatchery and asked what kind of birds they raise.  The woman said Cobb and Ross.  I am also looking at all possibilities and watching this thread closely to see what everyone else says (suspect I'll settle on using the birds we have already but still interested to see what comes up).  Did a quick search to see what they were like  -  love pictures  -  thd first link has a couple of pictures of these breeds and little blurb about them:

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and then this link which casts a not so favorable picture but has another link within for freedomrangers:

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Some of my meaties (okanagan hatchery birds)

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Magdelan, we used to order our meatbirds from Rochester. Since I found this hatchery close to home and can avoid putting chicks in the mail, I do. Shipping always killed a few chicks. I have never, NEVER had one of the Armstrong Hatchery chicks die while still little. They avoid the shock of shipping.

I also find that we have not had the crippling problems with these birds. BUT... we have our own way of raising them. We DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCMSTANCES have food in front of them continuously. They get fed twice a day. They eat it all. Once, I cut way back on the protein content and fed them less and they were skinny and horrible. That was a mistake I will not repeat. But I still keep control over how much/often I feed them and holding back a bit seems to have helped with the crippling. But when they start getting really big, they still have heart attacks.

We also give them poul-vite in the water as babies. I really makes the waterers slimy and gross, but it's only for a few days and seems to help. I think.

wow!..thanks for all the suggestions. I did some googling and ended up thinking that the Mistral Gris are the option for us...plus there is a hatchery in Langley that sells the chicks..
Farmchiq we will have to talk-think we will prbably go it alone, as we go organic and will probably do some for my mom...time for tea?

Oh yeah I am with uno. I weighed my feed each week increased it according to their growth rate ( charts provided by the hatchery) They got their ration divided into two meals a day. The morning feed was always outside so they had to go out.

The ones I just bought she said were called cobbs...something something.

Something to keep in mind that the processors (most I assume) charge double for processing any coloured birds. Heritage or coloured meat crosses. So keep that in mind.

We fed our meat birds both MGs and Cornish X's morning and night and during the day they got sent outside to search for their own things to fill their bottomless pit stomachs   I'm pretty sure they'd never ever leave the feeder if you could keep it filled!

thank you Uno and FLF (Fuzzylittlefriend   - that was very useful information. I knew I had heard of people successfully raising these birds without that sad state happening. Would want to make sure to butcher before hearts and legs started failing. Gads, bless them for what they give. I think I'd go with the Mistral Gris like Bigrock if I was getting broiler type birds specially. I am still wanting to try the dk cornish and dk cornish x wyandotte combination before anything else probably. change my mind about things 10 times a day, like what sex the young chicken is. drives one nuts!

fuzzylittlefriend wrote:

Something to keep in mind that the processors (most I assume) charge double for processing any coloured birds.  Heritage or coloured meat crosses.  So keep that in mind.

I don't think it's most.
The Kelowna one charges 1$ more a bird for the heritage/dual purpose/spent layers.
I personally don't eat my spent layers, I "uno" them.  

My best birds were my Cornish meat crosses. They free ranged, ate and drank as they wished, and took shelter in a large cardboard box with a tarp over it.  After an exhausting day of work, I would relax in their area and watch them scratch the ground and then look for the tasty tit bits they revealed in the dirt.  Sometimes they would come and hunker down next to me and enjoy gentle scratches under the chin.  When slaughter day came I brought them in to the processor and picked up a dozen beautiful carcasses, heavy and meaty.  Nothing tasted like those birds.

I think the type of bird only affects the amount of muscle gain.  HOW you chose to feed them is what makes the meat tasty.