Things i have seen!

I have been to a few novice breeders farms this year and have seen some good some bad and some ugly. Was able to pick up nice orps Kathy S lines,light Sussex Jonny Anvil lines. Saw some jersy giants smaller than my orps:-(, a black australorp with brown hackles:-( and some marans with very crooked legs :-( :-( all bought from some long time breeders with a good reputation "-(. Unfortunately for these breeders they will now have to spend more money to get better birds if there desire is to raise good quality birds.

I'm editing my initial post. Lately it seems my comments have come out sounding rather negative...and I know its unfair to make assumptions about what other people's goals are.
I do know there are an awful lot of people working hard with their chosen breeds and doing a very fine job with them.
I'm also glad there are eggs and chicks available in so many different breeds, colors and sizes that are easily attainable in our area. There are all kinds of reasons why people choose to keep chickens so its a good thing that there are so many people interested in raising them for others to enjoy.

Also wanted to add, thank you Progers for your kind words and I admire the goals you are working towards.

Very good points, as we have talked in the past I hope you realize that I am trying to breed the best quality birds that I can. I try to improve my stock at every opportunity spending $100 for a quality rooster is what I deem necessary to improve said stock. Any input from other breeders on how to improve is readily accepted.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe... Crow-headed Cornish from a farm near Orion. I watched Houdans strutting in an improper upright posture in the dark near a driveway Gate. All those... moments... will be lost in time, like tears... in... rain.*

(With apologies to Roy Batty from Bladerunner)

How about chickens that change sex, and yes it does happen as stated in the 2013past Old Farmers Almanac. Its rare but does happen (pages 253-254) experts at the Poultry Club of Great Britain 1in 10,000 hens undergoes sex change to become a rooster, the opposite can also happen but less frequently. Wow who knew!!?

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Thanks Progers, I appreciate the recognition and respect!

I have a lot to lose, and a lot riding on my ventures I am fully enveloped in right now.....

Being a small time breeder, focusing on improving and sustaining quality heritage breeds, more specifically a select list of Orpingtons and Sussex. I do my best to maintain/improve and continue the efforts and quality of lines, and with that my reputation as a breeder/fancier of poultry, and my over all character.

I don't have all that much , I scrape by all the time, it's hard to live this way, but there is no giving up!
If it wasn't for Tsamis and being there for me in my darkest moments, and Karrie the love of my life also there to help dust me off when my health and life fell apart, I would have been on the streets or worse, I spent some time in the hospital, and much time stuck in bed. Still to this day Doctors have no idea what is wrong with my GI tract, but they have a fascinating list of diagnoses so far.
Since I was born I have had major GI issues, and as I age they are gradually getting more manifested and worse. They say the only thing I can do is to not let it consume me.... but I will live the rest of my life with these issues, so what is a guy to do?

I say keep on Clucking...

I got into chickens at first as a form of therapy, I wasn't allowed a dog, but needed some sort of companion animal to keep me company during the day, something I was responsible for, something that depended on me that couldn't be left unattended or forgotten about, not to mention the EGGS!! Yum!
It then blossomed from there into where I am at now... Still scraping by but LOVING every minute of it all.

Being out of work for the past 5 years cause of medical reasons, this is all I have to keep me going and not on a financial aspect either.
It has been increasingly more difficult for myself to find proper employment, but I am heading back to my BBA studies this fall and going for my Bachelors degree in Business, maybe then I will be taking seriously by employers?? It's hard to find suitable employment, that co-insides with my medical disabilities.

Though times are tough, I keep going.....why? cause times have always been tough for me, so why let that alter my being and my attitude. I am alive and want to live.

Finally, after all these years of trying to find myself....
I am doing something I love, I am doing something I am good at and although at times I am not even breaking even, that is better
than being in the hole. You can still operate a business and not earn a profit, as they explained in First semester studies.

For me no matter what I will never give up on what I am doing.. at 29
years old I finally found calling and what drives me, and right now I am my own boss in a sense or am I a slave to my birds? Meh either way I look at it I have no complaints.

Everything I do, my reputation is on the line, when I sell birds I don't just unload an unwanted bird, I sell and part with a member of my flock, my feather'd family..lol
When I sell hatching eggs, I do my best to make sure someone gets a good hatch at the least, I can only go to certain extents but those whom have dealt with me in the past know I always mean well.

Negative comments towards the quality of my birds or the craftsmanship on my Custom coops really truly has an adverse effect on my whole operation, all it takes is one negative comment to spread like wildfire and poof, up in smoke it can all go, but at the same time I don't really worry about that cause the quality, craftsman ship, care, attention shines through in my birds and my coops!

So for someone who has aspirations to be involved and part of this wonderful community and raising poultry for years to come until I retire. I will continue to work hard at making sure that my birds, my coops, my reputation is of the best that it can be, and not tarnished by something like a rumour or misunderstanding.

I can't compete with the Big guys with the $$ in their pockets, and this year has honestly been the slowest and most uncertain year... But that doesn't mean that I am throwing in the towel.

At this point, I will let the quality of my birds & efforts of my creations speak for me.


Finally nice to have a chance to express a bit more about how things operate here, where I am at and a bit more about me.

Cheers,

Jonathan

Since I am on a streak today opening up 'Cans O'Crap" I might as well throw in my opinion.

First thing is where I once critized breeders whom would ignore me when I was a newb asking
for help getting birds, ect...I sincerely apoligize to you. Now that I am myself starting to breed
Houdans & select Polish, I understand some of the reason why you seasoned breeders were hesitant to offer eggs or birds when I asked. I know I must have sounded like a brat. I reckon I still do. But I now 'get' where you were coming from. I understand, in part, why and how easily trying to help someone can come back to slap you, your birds, the money, the work you put into it all. Since trying to focus on my breeds starting in 2009, I have learned that all too often people who know little can over react to a situation you have tried to help them out with, have it bite you in the ass and then you are left realizing how close you came to lossing it all just trying to be helpful. Experience has taught to be very careful in offering and trying to help the new kid on the block. I am not jaded, but rather schooled in how easy it is to lose it all.

As for who is a good breeder or not so good one, I think time should not be the only factor in
saying 'Yup they know what they are doing.' My red flag certainly would go up on someone I have never heard about who just comes on the scene with 101 hetitage breeds claiming to be a great breeder. I think it's like anything else in that you have to check the person out and ask others if they know who they are? One thing that has usually worked for me is if someone gets defensive when you ask them about their rep or whether they stand by what they sell, then it's likely someone you don't want to do business with.

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Interesting post and brought some thoughts to my mind too. I realize that even though one can be an established and recognized breeder, that the offspring can never be guaranteed to be as the parents. And the original line can probably head downhill very quickly if not worked on too. But I do think that someone purchasing from said breeders has a good chance of nice offspring. Things can go so wrong during incubation, which can cause malformations, especially with the legs. Crooked legs I would think in this instance would be an incubation issue. Perhaps from the breeder's stock, but I am sure a good breeder would not breed from birds with crooked toes or legs, but maybe these issues hide amongst the genes. I don't know. The red in the hackles of the black australorpe, I guess that must be a hidden gene too, cause I would think that someone breeding nice australorpes would not breed from any parent that had the autosomal red leaking. Just some thoughts here, really don't mean much, but just sometimes like to say what I am thinking. My thoughts. Sheesh, and not even sure if my sense is making sense today. have an awesome day, CynthiaM.

Oooh! A topic near and dear to my heart. Thank you Higgins for a question that goes right to the heart of the matter: What defines a 'good' chicken? Such a personal definition.

I consider the following points:

A beak. This is where the food goes in, hopefully on the front of the face since this seems to work best, but slightly askew is okay.

A bum. A place where used food can exit as well as eggs. Chickens with no bums are bad poopers and bad layers.

Wings. Size, shape and colour, quality of feathers or not completely doesn't matter. The bird is flightless, wings are just so much decoration. Cosmetic triviality.

Feet. Does it have feet? Can it walk? Good enough.

Size. Since the bird is not a heavy weight prize fighter, size does not matter. Big, small, does it lay eggs and eat food? Good. Size is a non-event.

Conformity. Yes, conformity is important, Gordon forbid that I get any birds that are individual free thinkers. They should all conform to some standard and not deviate from that norm lest anarchy erupt in the hen house. Non conforming birds are responsible for revolutions, and who needs that?

I look forward to the chicken requirements of others, because I can't imagine anyone thinking differently than I do.
(Please note heavy sarcasm...just sayin)

EDITED TO ADD: Hub read this and warned me not to rile the chicken folk. I apologize if this has riled any chicken folk.

Good luck Uno. I tried to rile them but got no response. Perhaps I was too vague.

Naughty, naughty forum members!!
I will not take the bait today and respond. I have even gone back and edited my first comment as heaven forbid I should start to post responses that sound like some of those crusty, cantankerous opinions on showbird.
My only excuse is that I've been under a lot of strain lately at work and have been taking it out on EVERYONE. My family will verify this.

KathyS wrote:My only excuse is that I've been under a lot of strain lately at work and have been taking it out on EVERYONE. My family will verify this.

Welcome to my world, Kathy. My suitcase is packed and one more item will make it explode open!

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This is interesting. I have been distracted and very busy of late and not able to respond much. KathyS, I don't remember your original thread, but I don't remember being offended or thinking 'here we go' so it couldn't have been to bad!

I have had some of the same thoughts as progers. I always tell Tara I am a Chicken Snob! There you go Tara, I have come out with it!!!

I think there are Poultry Breeders and then there are people that breed poultry. They are different things to me, but that is just my opinion about it. I am not saying one is better than the other (well, I wouldn't say it out loud anyways).
I try to find people that have similar philosophies as mine and then deal with them. Both buying and selling. Not to say my philosophies are right, just I find it easier to deal with like minded people.

Here are some comments from the Chicken Snob:
If you tell me you sell off all your females in the fall and only breed with pullets each year, I am unlikely to be a good fit with you.
If you call birds a certain breed and they don't look anything like it, I am unlikely to be a good fit with you. (says the snob with 2 types that are not even breeds! )
If you sell me day old chicks that do not have the chick down they should for their variety, I am unlikely to be a good fit with you.
If you tell me your birds are from a line of a person, that I happen to know personally and hasn't sold birds to you, I am unlikely a good fit with you.
If you are trying to sell birds as someones line, but you have been breeding them for a few years. I then think the line is now yours and I am unlikely to be a good fit with you because you should be proud enough to claim them as yours not piggy back on someone else.

Sometimes it takes time to sort through who you want to deal with and who you don't. When you find good people it is always worth the trouble.

Were those snobby enough for you? See KathyS I can post with the best of them. Stressed here to and grumpy and now want to submit you all to it!!!

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See, to me, even though your birds originated with their lines, they are now yours because YOU are making the choices about breeding and selecting. They no longer have impact over those lines except that they provided birds to you (and exceptional birds they were!). As you know you can destroy a line as quickly as you can improve one if you make the wrong choices.
I personally think the most influence you have in a breeding program is WHAT you select to breed from. So your choices may have been different from what the original breeders choices may have been.
I don't think it is bad to say where the birds came from, but I think they are yours now. It is your influence that is directing that line now.

Nice to give credit to the oldtimers and the dedication they gave to the fancy, but also take credit for what you have done with them. If you never claim them, they aren't really yours.

Just my thoughts on it.

I started with 3 different strains of PChants and have just added another. Some were nice birds, some not so much. I am trying to make them mine and improve them.

(Feeling a little like a SD, as well as a CS, with these posts, I certainly never wanted to insult or offend anyone and I am sorry if I have. These are just my thoughts on this, that is all.......)

LOVE Robert Heinlein! Though sometimes I feel like a Stanger in a Strange Land. Well, I am sure dating myself with my science fiction choices, eh?

Ok, time to get serious. With any breed or breeder you will find all sorts of people with different agendas, and just because those agendas don't mesh with yours doesn't make them wrong...just wrong for you! If you are looking for top quality, healthy birds that meet the SOP then you need to know what you are looking for and then be picky about getting them. If they don't exist any more then you have to study yourself up and hope you have the knowlegde, ability time and raw material to make what you want yourself.

I dont think anyone needs to be worried about their words here. If someone doesn't agree, or has other ideas, so be it. That is what sharing ideas is all about!

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When I grow up, I want to be a chicken snob.

authenticfarm wrote:When I grow up, I want to be a chicken snob.

Well if that wasn't just darn cute, as the dickens. Love this thread, what a bunch of most interesting information. Tara, you long winded bag of wonderful air, I loved to read yours mostly, . Coopslave, your tune sounds vaguely familiar and I think that I agree with all you have said too. Beautiful days to us, CynthiaM.

Coopslave, those are my sentiments exactly, only you say it in a way that is unpretentious and certainly NOT snobby!
However, if following your set of criteria does label one as chicken snob, all I can say is...I wanna join the club! Where do I sign up?

Thanks for everyone who has chimed in on this discussion. These are such good topics to share views on. There is no right or wrong, just different opinions and are all welcome!

CynthiaM wrote: Coopslave, your tune sounds vaguely familiar and I think that I agree with all you have said too. Beautiful days to us, CynthiaM.

I do imagine you are familar with the 'tune' CynthiaM.