Chantecler leg colour etc

I have been looking at my little flock grow, thinking that, hey, I have some possibly good birds here!
To my dismay I am noticing some odd combs in the crew, but I also know that Combs do not make the chicken. There are other things to look at too. So, I went to the search mode to find the threads about eg colour. I have some good eg colour, and some that is not too bad. But I remember something about leg colour being more important on the rooster than the hen or something like that.

The heat had melted my brain. I cannot find the info I know I read here not that long aog.

Does anyone remember the rule of thumb for chanti leg colour, other than you want an intence yellow?

If I am going to have to evaluate my birds myself, then I should have at least a couple of no brainers to start with. Im not capeableof much else above no brainer right now.

THX

To fix the wrong colored legs in chantecler you need to use yellow legged hens only, white and willow hens can be very nice shaped with good fertility so casting them aside may cost other qualities. The roosters are a different story, he can have the richest yellow legs and be mated to yellow leg hens and still produce willow leg offspring. Each rooster you select will need to be test mated for the leg color of his offspring. If your best boy throws willow legs it's not all lost, some will have rich yellow and you will need to sift through them test mating until you find one that produces all yellow leg offspring. Eventually you will find one pure Id/Id yellow leg color, and after all that time and work I hope you all see the value of this one specimen to be in the thousands of dollars cause that's close to the cost of finding a good one.
Now, my question is WHY? If you look at enough historic pics you will see many Chanties with wrong leg color, wrong shape etc. My opinion is that being a composite breed under continual development this must be expected. To expect peas in a pod like with some other breeds would be unreasonable and unhealthy for the breed in the long term. If what you want are show birds you can still get them despite all the little problems, just takes breeding more numbers to find them. Nothing easy about Chanteclers, they are a sophisticated breed worthy of the challenge.

Right! Thank you. I rememebred there was something about hens and toosters but didnt remember what.

I am going to have to take photos of the combs that are developing now. Some looks great and some are not so great.

I have three ages of birds, and Im wiling to overwinder quite a few, and I like my roosters. No fast choices here. Just want to wrap my brian around a few thigns.


Rennegade, maybe I will have to have you over to evaluate my beasties for me!

Sure, I'm no expert though, just doing my best to figure it out too. I'm quietly working towards the yeller leg thing but I've now accepted the foibles of this breed, if they meet Bro Ws vision for the breed I say call them Chanties. In the future I'd like to get them up to the 10lb range as cockerels, after that I'd like to split them into 2 lines and double mate them, one private line producing exceptional hens, another producing exceptional males, from there I'd like to cross the lines and offer those to the public. Long way off but it's a decent plan I think.

I would also like a larger bird, something like the original 10lbs.

That's very helpful Reneggade! I hadn't know that. The issue of the composite breed is particularly good.

Sadly I have just lost the majority of my birds to a family of foxes. Looks like I will have to start again.

Yes, sadly these things happen, I wish you the best in your new start.

Sometimes a good start isnt possible, like maybe you have a pure Id/Id yellow legged rooster but only have willow or white leg hens to start with. In that case you could hatch as many as possible and you will get yellow legged boys and girls, keep all the "Golden Girls" and then test mate yellow legged males for genetic purity knowing that eventually you will find one or more to base your flock on.

That's helpful - but your point about retaining the other strengths of the breed is good too.

It took me a long time to cull out all the "narrow birds" to make the roosters more properly dual purpose. Nice combs, nice shape. But I think you are right, I may not have had ANY yellow legs in my gene pool (I didn't cull any yellow legs either, there just weren't any).

Sigh. Back to the drawing board.

I ran across an article once that mentioned leg color can be associated with table quality too. It hinted at lighter color legs having the better qualities. I did find that the white legged types had very white skin and meat, plump no breast ridge really, but laid few eggs. The willow were good layers and well fleshed too, more chantecler-ish than the white. The golden girls are just that, yellow skinned, good layers, willing to brood, definitely have better conformation. These are my starting point, I take no credit for the creation of these, they were the best I could find available. At the time I didn't know much about them, just the official description, they were what I was looking for. To get to where I am now, the latest batch being mostly yeller leggers, has cost a bit of time and money with no returns really other than the satisfaction of doing it. Other breeds seem to attract money easily, the Chantecler are about a close as I can get to an openly patriotic act without losing my lunch, and my mind lol. Speaking of lunch...it's time a white leg chanty hen come home from freezer camp lol.

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This article gives a pretty good explanation of the genetics of willow leg if you're into it. Gives a chart to show the genotypes and phenotypes.

Thanks for the link
Good point made for saving some willow legged females instead of culling them all at first because you need to use them to test the yellow legged male. If all chicks are yellow legged then your rooster is pure for yellow....

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Thanks Tara, think i might be seeing the yellow light one day on this yellow legged thing!.....
I know youve talked of it before but sometimes its just not the right time to sink in seems like!
Think i need a punnet square brushup.

Just noticed I am choosing hens with dark coloring in their legs and beaks(along with the yellow) and suddenly realized that is a nono so theres another avenue to explore now....

Thanks Tara, I knew something wasn't quite right here. Someday, we need to meet, and then I have punnet questions for you. Too hard to ask them online, I can't scribble on a computer lol.
So that's 2 ways to fix them now:

1) test mate yellow leg boys on yellow leg girls, pure male will produce 100% yellow legs

2) mate pure yellow males to willow females, keep yellow female offspring and backcross them to the parent male.

Now I think I may have figured a third path through the briar bush after doing a punnet square:

A yellow legged, but impure Id/id male mated to golden girls should produce Id/Id offspring too.

hee, hee, more to add to my winter reading document on genetics, smiling. Gonna have a good sized book compiled by the time I am done. Thanks for all information that I glean...everyone (specially you Tara-girl!!).

Yellow legs, pretty yellow legs, aren't they a beautiful thing to see. Isn't it just great to learn stuff. Beautiful and awesome days, CynthiaM.

yep, great post. I have enough here that I think I can make some fairly easy decisions.
If there is a truly exceptional pale legged hen then I will consider her. I am not sure I would keep a willow hen. Hmmm...

Tara, any chance that you would be out my way... do some evaluations maybe ?

Just to add a bit more depth to subject here is link to a list of genes affecting this leg color problem, About a dozen entries down the list under the heading Foot Color..I think I have most of them here, heh heh, no end of fun!

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Ive kept some willow genetics here because I found the hens productive and well fleshed. My goal is not related to Standard definitions, I want practicality, a line that makes good roasters and another that makes good winter layers. This will require double mating to accentuate the two different qualities and hopefully balance out when crossed. From what I can find in the old books on breeding this is how they went about developing the breeds to begin with. The kicker is when a breeder does this and only sells the crossed lines to the public, there is little chance of his work being abused as the genetics are F1 line crosses, the best birds can only be purchased from the breeder or bred up again over generations.

Ok, now take the next step here...If I mate pure yellow legged males to fabulous willow females and all leg colors are yellow but not pure then you get showbirds(dead end one way trip with a prize before freezer camp) but future breedings of yellow legged chanteclers are compromised. The genetics would be great for competitive breeders but not so great for someone looking for a start...Hey its not my idea I read it as an old breeders trick to keep customers coming back and to raise prices of really good ones, protect the lines.

Reneggaid, what a sneaky thing! I never would have thought of it that way, but right you are! hehehe..those old show breeders had no end of tricks up their sleeves.
I've read about some of the many imaginitive ways they came up with to cheat at shows, including bribing the judge. But never thought of purposely selling chickens that look wonderful, but very likely will throw some incorrect leg colors in the offspring and create more work for the buyer to breed that back out again.

Reneggaid you are my hero!
lol

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Tara wrote: If you have some Willow legged females you like past the leg colour; figure that you breed her to a Yellow legged male (don't get all too worried about if he is pure or impure for Yellow) and keep back only the Willow legged hen's daughters with Yellow legs (gotta wait till at least six weeks old to do a fair evaluation). Golden girls, you cannot go wrong in the leggy department using the Golden Girls and you might even capture all that attracted you to the Willow legged hens, except the off coloured legs.

Ok, I think I got it.
I will consider keeping my light legged and willow lwgged girls, but I will not keep willow boys.

I will defintiely be taking comb photos. I have some funkey combs on my boys. I am thinking that my girls are all ok actually...
Be prepared for a new thread!

Oh good. I am loving this.