Northern Fowl Mite... Part deux

I am sure you remember this thread:

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In my first post I mentioned a medication out of the States. I thought I would give everyone an update now the med has arrived.

So two weeks ago I dusted all the birds. A week ago I dusted and epriexed. Yesterday my product arrived. It is called Frontline Plus for dogs. It is a drop on product that kills skin parasites in all stages- adults, pupa, larva and EGGS! I have read many accounts of it being used in the States on chickens but you can't buy it in Canada. Well, they have it on EBay. I ordered the largest package I could. It came to $73.80 USD including shipping and all the extras. The packaging included 6 individually packaged dosages. I figure each dosage contains about 110 drops.

Today I caught all the chickens (again... I am getting very efficient with herding them into a wire dog crate.) and gave all the bantams a drop beneath their vent. The adults got a drop on the back of their necks too. The good news is that while medicating I did not see any wildlife on the birds, but a couple had egg clusters.

I shall catch a few randomly in the next week to see if Frontline is successful in keeping the beasties away.

Sue - thanks for posting this info. I recently saw this website [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] they have Frontline as well, maybe a little cheaper for next time, if it works? Looking forward to reading your update!

What is the active ingredient in Frontline? We useed to use it on the dogs in Aus.

It says:

9.8% fipronil
8.8% (S)-methoprene

Interesting you can get it on ebay because technically you need a vets prescription to have it dispensed. Its a great product and we should have it here as it takes care of every major parasite internal and external for dogs. But I guess we had to run our own trials and a rat died during the 1st trial so instead of risking another rat dieing and screwing up their clinical data they decided to never aprove its use. Every country in the world except canada uses it. Good luck!

I thought selamectin was the active ingredient in frontline.The same as revolution here for dogs and cats. I buy the viles from the vet here and use it on the rabbit if i have to. It works better then ivermectin becauae it stays in their system longer and long enough to kill the whole cycle of the parasite.

Off topic Piet, but I will ask...

What parasites to you find rabbits are prone to get in our Alberta climate?

So I wonder if revolution would work on chickens

Schipperkesue wrote:Off topic Piet, but I will ask...

What parasites to you find rabbits are prone to get in our Alberta climate?

i dont think my comment was off topic, but as far as rabbits go. Just fur mites i have had to deal with. I treat against worms twice a year wheather they have them or not with the horse paste. My chickens i ivomec and northern fowl mite is such an easy fix i dealt with a couple times and eradicated them instantly using drykill and ivomec.

Sorry Piet, my question was off topic! Not you! Thanks.

Prairie Chick wrote:So I wonder if revolution would work on chickens

I wondered the same thing. Have that awesome day, CynthiaM.

Schipperkesue wrote:I am sure you remember this thread:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In my first post I mentioned a medication out of the States. I thought I would give everyone an update now the med has arrived.

So two weeks ago I dusted all the birds. A week ago I dusted and epriexed. Yesterday my product arrived. It is called Frontline Plus for dogs. It is a drop on product that kills skin parasites in all stages- adults, pupa, larva and EGGS! I have read many accounts of it being used in the States on chickens but you can't buy it in Canada. Well, they have it on EBay. I ordered the largest package I could. It came to $73.80 USD including shipping and all the extras. The packaging included 6 individually packaged dosages. I figure each dosage contains about 110 drops.

Today I caught all the chickens (again... I am getting very efficient with herding them into a wire dog crate.) and gave all the bantams a drop beneath their vent. The adults got a drop on the back of their necks too. The good news is that while medicating I did not see any wildlife on the birds, but a couple had egg clusters.

I shall catch a few randomly in the next week to see if Frontline is successful in keeping the beasties away.

Hi Sue, I am surprised that you were able to bring the medication in the country because when ever I have tried to bring in medication of any kind into Canada I have been denied even when ordering from Cutler Supplies and also ordering from dog supply places in the states. Lucky for you.

Have you tried ordering it from Canada Vet

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Their office is in BC

How are calculating the dosage? If you're just putting one drop (1/110 of a dog-dose?) on each bird, that sounds low to me? Usually these dosages are calculated by weight, so much per kg.

The effect of underdosing is like that from not taking a full course of antibiotics; the most susceptible bugs are killed, but some of those with a bit of resistance may survive. They they go on to reproduce, having offspring that are (on average) more resistant than the previous generation. After a few generations of under-treatment, you'll have super-resistant bugs. Just like the antibiotic-resistant bacteria that now plague our hospitals.

Frontline has been around for years. Yes, Frontline is great stuff. I have told many exhibitors about Frontline for a few years, but not very many were interested in the product because it comes from the USA. It is hard to come by and is not legal to have in Canada unless you have certificate from the supplier. I have used it for a number of years, the spray type, and it is simply the best product I've used. It will last from 4 to 6 months on one spray. The drops are a little harsh on the small birds and will affect fertility, so you need to careful with it. I have also bought the drops and packages from Wal-Mart in the USA. It comes in different size for dogs, from 5 to 15 lbs, 15 to 45 lbs, 45 to 80 lbs, 80 to 110 lbs and over 110 lbs. The packages all look the same but the strength varies a lot. Different price for different weights. The biggest weight one is more money, about $65 but can be stretched out to last longer. Again, using the drops, you must know the size you are using because the one for the large dogs can kill the bantams if too much is used. Best to use the spray. Mix the drop solution with water to make it into a spray is my suggestion.

Now if you are interested in getting some spray type, we can order from a supplier I know that will ship to Canada if the shipment is big enough.

Rico
I have to ask what about the link I posted for Canada Vet they have offices in BC and they advertise it on their site so they are saying they have it here in canada right
Just wondering

Hello

Dont try that Canada Vet site I just called their number and talked to the people there
They can not ship to canada when I asked why she did not know as they are only a 24 hour answering service that is only there to answer simple questions so I asked why if they are advertising as a Canadian company with a address that is in Canada why they can not sell the Items they advertise she so I asked for a contact number for the company so I could speak to them direct. She said that they are located in Australia and everything is shipped from there I said that is fine could I have their Number so I could call them
She is not allowed to give out the number but I could email there contact email and ask there.LOL I Thanked her for her trouble and for helping me the best she could and said to have a good da.

SORRY Sue I Tried to find a place you could get it here

I have a supplier in the USA who will ship to me if I put a large order in. They do not what to ship to lots of places in Canada because it cost them to get the export papers to ship to Canada. They will ship to me because I know them personally and I've bought stuff from them before. There may be more supplier in the USA that carry the product but I don't know if they ship to the stuff to Canada. The Poultry Press always sends out flyers and sales catalogs with their paper. You can try them. I guess you could try Wal-Mart to see if they will bring it in. The last time I check with them they said they were not allowed, but things could have changed. That was about 3 or 4 years ago.

I wonder why more people are not using Ectiban 25 product. It is for spraying milking parlours, stables, barn, diluted of course, to control flies of some varieties, it can be diluted to a different lesser strength for a spray on for the poultry. It evidently is a "safe" product with no withdrawal. If they use it in milking parlours, wouldn't you think it would be a pretty safe product too. The higher dilution amount can be sprayed on the chickens, they say spray from below and I certainly know why. This is what I have sprayed on my chickens that had the visible northern mite. This product is designed for the northern mite on poultry and is residual, meaning, it stays around, probably for quite some time. I am not collecting any more eggs for hatching, so not really worrying about fertility, but doubt it affects that or it would be an indication on the product label I would think. It is for use on poultry.....

do not even bother to use eprinex for the northern fowl mite. Trust me 100%. It does not work....period. Maybe for lice, but not the northern fowl mite. if you think it has worked, well, maybe you just did not have as much of an issue of this pest as you thought you did

Have a most awesome night and day tomorrow, CynthiaM.

Cindi where would I purchase the Ectiban 25 product?

Sebas49 wrote:I have a supplier in the USA who will ship to me if I put a large order in. They do not what to ship to lots of places in Canada because it cost them to get the export papers to ship to Canada. They will ship to me because I know them personally and I've bought stuff from them before. There may be more supplier in the USA that carry the product but I don't know if they ship to the stuff to Canada. The Poultry Press always sends out flyers and sales catalogs with their paper. You can try them. I guess you could try Wal-Mart to see if they will bring it in. The last time I check with them they said they were not allowed, but things could have changed. That was about 3 or 4 years ago.

Rico, I would be interesting to buying some of the Frontline Spray. What would constitute a minimum order to make it worth your supplier's time? For me i have no courier address (just a PO box) so getting products like this becomes even more comlicated if the supplier won't ship by post. Maybe a larger order could be purchased to share between a few people with distribution as we next see each other at one of the show or seminars?


Also realizing this product is not registered for poultry what about the eggs? I assume no eating the eggs from chickens that have been treated? Does anybody know?

Just thought many thoughts, hard to wrap them all up in a bubble and post.

Prairie Chick. Ectiban 25 is available many places, it is not a difficult product to get. It is commonly used in the livestock industry for fly control, but it is also used for poultry for sucking insects too. I got mine from the feed mill called Surecrop. I am sure if you went to your local co op they would have it or be able to bring it in. I doubt if there is a withdrawal time for eggs, as the label says nothing about any withdrawal for eggs.

It does say this about dairy cattle:

Dairy Cattle - Non Lactating
do Not Apply Within 30 Days Of Freshening.
leave A Seven Day Interval Between Last Spray And Slaughter.

And it does say this about poultry:

Poultry
Northern Fowl Mites
Mix 200 mL with 100 L water in a sprayer.
Apply 4 L of spray mix to each 100 birds. Spray from below to ensure thorough treatment of the vent area. Do not slaughter within 7 days of treatment.

I used the dilute spray on the birds that had the visible mites, only one breed of my birds had the mites and only 4 of the birds had them in that breed, the others were clean as a whistle. And I think I never totally rid that coop of the mites last fall and they have been a'brewing and a'breeding all winter long and all spring to have something so huge and wicked. And also, I pulled off the feathers of those birds that were affected. About 4 feathers on each bird. Not even close to the vent area. But more along the front of the belly . Yep, I was shocked to see this. Barely any mites were seen on the birds, but the feather was entirely engulfed in thousands of mites. Like a moving mass of little black, red, brown and beige dots, sickening, oh so sickening. After I removed those feathers and put then into a pail of water and drown the suckers, sprayed the birds bellies and vent area, narry a mite to be seen. They were not on the birds, but on the few feathers in huge freakin' clusters!!!! Ya, mites, lots o' mites. I thought I had clean henhouses. There, out is my dirty little secret that I just didn't want to share, I was so sickened by what I found. My fault. No one else's fault. Go figure that one....I think the mites stay in one particular area. Sorry to say this, but I think if they have found a food source in a certain spot, they do not travel very far and remain there. Otherwise, other breeds would have been affected. Long story, ain't goin' there right now.

Oh ya, by the way. If you look at your birds and you don't see these little mites. Think again and have a better look. But listen to what I am saying. When I checked one of the gals the other day, I saw one or two little black mites crawling along the skin below the vent. Oh happy day, I was so happy, thought I had rid the coop of the mites after I skinned that coop (and the others too) right down to the bone. Well, ya know what I mean. Everything out, right down to sweeping off the dirt floor with a broom and everything, and there was lots, 25 bags of stuff went to the dump for burning (from all the coops). I did not want any of that product on the farm. I heard the northern mite can live for 3 weeks off the birds with no food supply . Didn't want them around just in case they reinfected my birds when they were free ranging. Gads, ramblin'.....anyways I sprayed the Ectiban 25 flykiller, eprinexed all the birds.....good, should be good and mite free. What the freakin' freak!!

Thought I would check the birds. As I said, on one hen I saw one or two of the little black buddies walking over her skin below her vent. They are tiny, but if you look closely, you can see them, and they can actually shuffle along pretty fast (just like the varroa mite on the honeybees, they have an amazing pace for something so small, ich, ich, ich). so I thought I would look at some feathers. Oh man, oh man alive. I am so happy I looked at some feathers. A few inches below the vent, I would describe this as on the front of the belly I noticed some very dirty looking feathers hanging down. yes. They were hanging down, they look heavy. I took a really good look and almost fell over with shock. I mean that. I am not exaggerating, well, maybe just a little. I am embarrassed to even be saying this, but my experience must be told. My dirty little secret. And it almost was kept that way. Think I will make a post to tell of my dirty little secret. Did I mention I almost kept a dirty little secret, so embarassing.... and this is to myself . So....when you look at chicken butts, look below, far below the butt. Look for any clusters of thousands of mites, not on the birds, but having a gay old time, clustering. Don't ask me what they are doing, but they were not on the birds that I could see. Hideous, awful....and look for those feathers that have a cluster of thousands of mites. Maybe mine was the worst mite infestation on earth, and I hang my head in shame, but they were there, in droves...these were not eggs, they were thousands of mites. OK, have I drilled that in. I found 3-4 feathers only. That was it. Only 3-4 feathers, covered from where the feather enters the body to almost all the way down the feather, covered in thousands of mites. Think I got my point across. I took a picture of one of these feathers, but not sure if the macro on the camera caught it, but I did get a picture, just haven't downloaded it to my computer yet to have a look.

Have I scared anyone? Well, yes, I hope I have, cause I am scared, very scared...

Now that those birds have had their bellies and butts sprayed, I will engage in a product that will be tried and true to use as a prevention measure, forever more. And I am thinking that mocidectin (cydectin) or frontline is going to be my pal. I like that the product is poured on (i.e., probably drops on the bird on the neck, like how I used to use eprinex, which I think is an expensive and very useless product).

Sebas, listening to what you are saying about getting stuff from a friend. How is frontline applied anyways? You said you have told fanciers about this for years, clearly you have good experience, kindly relay more of how you have dealt with administering this product please. One day we will all be the best birdkeepers, be they all the way from waterfowl (don't think waterfowl get mites, do they??? or do they???) to chickens and back again. Boy, never meant to be so ramblin' about something, well, it is something that is so important....have those awesome days, CynthiaM.

Still wondering if I should delete my post, caused I am so embarrassed, but then...I am a big girl that wears my big girl pants and I can take it. Ya, think I will share my story with others that care to listen, and hope that things can be learned from a most horrible experience that I have experienced. I think that I will be mite free, from now, to evermore, sigh....as I push the button that connects me to the world and friends that I care so much about.....sending now...

Frontline spray is applied to the vent area. One squirt for bantams and two for large chickens. I also spray it on the roosts twice a year. If you do your birds 3 times a year with Frontline, I would say you would be mite and lice free.

Yes, Ducks get mites and thick. They are harder to see because of the dense feathers. Jack Robertson has told me about his call ducks having mites sometimes and needed to clean them up. With ducks you need to get the Frontline on to the skin which is a little harder to do. It does affect fertility on the call ducks for a few weeks according to Jack.

Most of the poultry exhibitors in the USA use Frontline spray type because it is so easy to use.

I have talked to Greg Olin, an L.A. Chemist and chicken fancier about Frontline and the time for egg withdrawl. He is doing a study right now and will get back to me with his results. He also makes a long post here (post 37):

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Basically saying that there is probably no egg withdrawl.

Thank-you Rico, for all your info on Frontline.

Ok, so I have to ask.

We have had several fanciers post on here about battling mites. Some near tears of frustration with ineffective products and recurring outbreaks. Toybarons, Chichoryfarm, CynthiaM, Myself, to name a few. These people really needed help.

No one had mentioned Frontline until I heard of it, quietly bought some, gave it a try and posted that I did so.

Now it seems like it is a well known product amongst fanciers, well used and effective.

Why has no one said anything until now? Please understand that I am not judging or condemning here, just wondering why.