Are you a Keeper or a Breeder or somewhere in between?

I am just going to give a personal opinion about this from my experience starting out and then getting to know some breeders in Australia.

I think it is very difficult for breeders that have been working on a line for many years to sell stock to somebody new to the industry. I am not saying this is right, but I do understand some of their concerns.

They have worked on these birds for a very long time to get them were they want them. This is not an easy task with some breeds and can quickly be undone in a season or two if not continued correctly. So if a breeder sells to someone beginning with a purebred enterprise and they struggle a bit at first, as we all do, and the quality of birds produced is average (as the learning curve is sharp starting out) but the person breeding them now states the stock they got was from the breeder (lets call them Breeder A). Breeder As name is now attached to the average birds that are being produced. They are not necessarily birds that Breeder A would ever produce. Then, as sometimes happens, it is all to hard and the new person gives up. There are birds out there with Breeder As name attached and the new breeder no longer exists in that breed. I have seen this happen quite a few times. This leaves a bad taste in a breeders mouth and after a while they don't want to help any new people.

I am not saying this is fair or right, just what happens sometimes. If you are persistent and show interest and can try to develop a bit of a mentor relationship with a long time breeder, they are more likely to help. I know many down in Australia that have given birds to people that show they are willing to do the hard yards and be in it for the long haul. Not just buy some birds and then do what they want with them.

When a person takes a long time to develop a line of birds there is a pride in them that is difficult to describe. It is a very personal and deep connection to them. Remember the breeder does not just own some birds, but years of planning, organising and shall is say scheming to get them just where they want them to be.

So please keep this in mind when you are asking breeders for birds. I am sure the ones with good birds get inundated with requests for them.

As for hatchery birds, they are not my first choice but I started out with a few. Not many made if past the first year as I found better quality slowly. I think sometimes they may have a place in a breeding program to help 'tweak' something, but I think they would be difficult to base a whole line on.

Please remember, I don't show, that doesn't mean I don't want the best birds I can have. I am interested in my birds being the best they can as far as looks, production and vitality goes, so I think sometimes I have a tougher job than the Exhibition breeder may have.

I hope I was able to articulate what I meant well enough. I have trouble with that sometimes.

Well from my perspective I've noticed that offspring from some show quality lines throw birds with numerous genetic defects. While from hatchery birds it doesn't take very long to breed good quality birds. One example of this would be my Buckeye project. In the last few years I've brought up many birds from the hatcheries and made my selections. Often it will be that I order 25 pullets and only find one that I would consider using in my breeding program. This year I'm growing out under 10 birds that came from hatchery and over 60 birds of my own. From these numbers I hope to pick a handful of birds that will move my breeding program forward.

One cockerel I showed last year at the 2011 Canadian National in Armstrong, BC took Reserve American. At that time I had debated taking him to the show because he was not quite fully developed. However I will add that I had worked with his parent's line for a couple of years prior. So I'm just going to say its not good to paint something with the same brush, you can't say all hatchery birds are crap and you can't say all "show-quality" birds are perfect.

If you'd like to see some of the comments I had on my cockerel from Buckeye breeders in the States also within this thread the topic of hatchery birds coming from people's private flocks is brought up.

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cornel wrote:
I agree 100% with the CHB mandate of promoting and preserving purebred stock. I don't see anything that says "Hatchery Purebreds are excluded." Even the APA/ABA while idealy would like people to purchase stock from breeders, it does not discriminate purebreds if they come from a hatchery.

hmmmmmm try to find a purebred that comes from a hatchery that will win at a big aba or apa show...

CHB's mandate is clearly about preserving and promoting purebreds, not winning ribbons and prestige with them. It is perfectly valid to use hatchery stock in a breeding program, especially in the early stages. Also, I must point out that a Rochester Bronze took champion turkey at the December show, but several people have already made that point this morning...

Toybarons, I just want to say that I agree with you 100%, I have had a similar experience to you asnd when I first read Arctic's question I had the same reaction, but now that I've thought about it a bit more, I think perhaps she was asking how many sellers were outright reselling stock they bought from a hatchery and were just past brooding, and how many were people who do their own breeding...not necessarily where the lines originated from?

@ Toybarons, there is no point to make here and no one said that hatchery stock is not welcome. I think mainly that for the sale they were hoping for more show breeders to shed some of there birds to others. And "show breeders" are always given a bad name here more so because it is the minority on this forum... With showbreeders I mean people who own an SOP and select there breeder birds with SOP in mind, but always with health, vigor and fertility being # 1 priority. They will take their birds to shows and can see where they are at and what to work on possibly.

It does not matter where the birds come from, hatchery or no hatchery, as long they meet SOP you will do well at shows. Generally the hatchery birds are only a slight resemblance of the breed with some exceptions. And generally the way to go IF you want to show is acquire stock from a seasoned breeder. But make your mistakes with "cheap" birds first. When I do sell birds or rabbits, they will have my name on it, meaning it is an animal that I like and am happy to give away to someone who can also appreciate the quality and use it in their program. However, many times I have found that with people would end up just wanting to make a dollar out of it and babies and breedings were offered on Kijiji. I will breed many, cull hard (freezer, I gotta eat too) and then keep the good ones. I can only keep a certain number, so if there are extras, those can go elsewhere and are still nice birds. Some years that is 25 animals, some years that is none. Hatcheries will always sell because it is their business. Breeders don't because there business is showing and raising them. You cannot expect a breeder to just sell you stock without knowing you first, it is not a store, hatcheries are stores and everyone is welcome. Successful show breeders are not snobby, come on if you want to see snobby go to a horse show! Show breeders are just proud of their hard work and knowledge paying off with consistent wins, and not just a random ribbon somewhere without competition and with birds they did not even breed themselves.

Piet

i agree with coopslave fully! it may be easier for me to get birds from breeders because i am a junior, but all the big breeders i have ever called have been very helpful. one thing i found is that talking on the phone works better for most of them, as i am sure they would get 100s of emails asking for birds, many people not caring what the bird actually looks like. most breeders wont sell chicks or eggs, trying to guarantee that the birds you buy are going to do good for you.

Good point, Cornel. I think many of the top breeders have become frustrated and tired of all the newbies emailing and requesting birds from lines they have worked with for decades. Old time breeders have seen it all and can often tell which buyers are not really looking to improve their own lines or put in the work to keep up the quality - for some the goal is short term, immediate success. There are those who are just wanting a big name to attach to those endless batches of eggs and chicks they will immediately start selling. And this is not what some of those dedicated breeders would choose for their birds. A polite phone call to introduce yourself and explain your goals will go a long way.

Coopslave, I understand what you are saying and you did a good job at making your point. I do understand the breeders P.O.V. in not wanting to sell their birds to protect their reputation. If am also protective of the hatchery birds I have had to start out with. I have been asked to sell the houdans I don't wish to keep but I don't because I see they have defects that if they found their way into uncaring hands and bred, would produce more defective birds. This is something no one wants.

What is created then is a "Catch 22" situation: "SOP breeders tell you only buy exhibition birds from a breeder, but breeders won't sell you their exhibition birds so where am I supposed to get my birds then?"

All I am trying to say is before looking down your nose at a new fancier just starting out with their hatchery bought birds is try to understand that this is their foot through the door. Instead of slamming it on their stock, help them out. If you can point them in the direction of a breeder or club that may be able to help them, why don't you? We would be far more gratful to you, the SOP Breeder than having you make us feel like we are not welcomed.

After all, I thought the point of all you old seasoned breeders of this hobby is to bring in the next generation who will be carring on the hobby?

Piet wrote:@ Toybarons, there is no point to make here and no one said that hatchery stock is not welcome. I think mainly that for the sale they were hoping for more show breeders to shed some of there birds to others. And "show breeders" are always given a bad name here more so because it is the minority on this forum... With showbreeders I mean people who own an SOP and select there breeder birds with SOP in mind, but always with health, vigor and fertility being # 1 priority. They will take their birds to shows and can see where they are at and what to work on possibly.

It does not matter where the birds come from, hatchery or no hatchery, as long they meet SOP you will do well at shows. Generally the hatchery birds are only a slight resemblance of the breed with some exceptions. And generally the way to go IF you want to show is acquire stock from a seasoned breeder. But make your mistakes with "cheap" birds first. When I do sell birds or rabbits, they will have my name on it, meaning it is an animal that I like and am happy to give away to someone who can also appreciate the quality and use it in their program. However, many times I have found that with people would end up just wanting to make a dollar out of it and babies and breedings were offered on Kijiji. I will breed many, cull hard (freezer, I gotta eat too) and then keep the good ones. I can only keep a certain number, so if there are extras, those can go elsewhere and are still nice birds. Some years that is 25 animals, some years that is none. Hatcheries will always sell because it is their business. Breeders don't because there business is showing and raising them. You cannot expect a breeder to just sell you stock without knowing you first, it is not a store, hatcheries are stores and everyone is welcome. Successful show breeders are not snobby, come on if you want to see snobby go to a horse show! Show breeders are just proud of their hard work and knowledge paying off with consistent wins, and not just a random ribbon somewhere without competition and with birds they did not even breed themselves.

Piet

So well said, Piet (as usual). We can always count on you to sum things up in a way that is practical, sensible and knowledgeable!

toybarons wrote:What is created then is a "Catch 22" situation: "SOP breeders tell you only buy exhibition birds from a breeder, but breeders won't sell you their exhibition birds so where am I supposed to get my birds then?"

All I am trying to say is before looking down your nose at a new fancier just starting out with their hatchery bought birds is try to understand that this is their foot through the door. Instead of slamming it on their stock, help them out. If you can point them in the direction of a breeder or club that may be able to help them, why don't you? We would be far more gratful to you, the SOP Breeder than having you make us feel like we are not welcomed.

After all, I thought the point of all you old seasoned breeders of this hobby is to bring in the next generation who will be caring on the hobby?

I actually don't see anything wrong with starting out with hatchery stock if that is all you have available. Like you pointed out, you do get lucky sometimes and get birds worth breeding from. I just think this can be a lot longer road, but not one any less rewarding.

I think you have to understand that not everyone breeding birds will look down their nose at you for starting where you have. It is nice not to paint all people with one brush. I realise that you have had some bad experiences, but that does not mean everyone is like the people you have come in contact with.

You will find the same elitist snobs in all walks of showing. I know them in the horse world and the cattle world and I can only imagine what the dog and cat worlds must be like. Anytime you have competition there will be the small people that have to put down others to make themselves feel better. It is not nice, but it is a fact of life unfortunately.

Walk away from those people and forget about them, they are not worth your time and energy. You will eventually find the good people in the industry, but sometimes it takes a bit of time. I know, I had the same trouble when I was starting out. Unfortunately I had to do some very hard yards until finally getting someone to take me on and mentor me.

I also think Cornel is right. I believe it is a little easier for a junior. People seem more inclined to help them.

I completely agree with all the points you made about helping someone new. It is a frustrating place to be sometimes. Just keep in mind that many older breeders have been taken advantage of over the years and that makes them much more cautious about things.

Unfortunately I can see both sides of this and it is one of those things that there is just no right answer. Try to stay positive and open to what may be around you and it will happen for you. Then when you are a breeder of note, you can help the new people the way you wish you would have been helped in the beginning.

My question as to how many booths had exhibition show birds and how many had birds from various sources, hatcheries, mail order, backyard flocks etc was actually just a simple querrie as to the ratio of booths with only show bred birds and with birds from various sources.


I have been showing dogs interntationaly for more than 35 years, I showed horses (AQHA halter and western) for many years, managed a major dessage and jumper stable, showed my alpacas and llamas, showed my cat breifly and have been showing chickens and rabbits for a short time. I have seen all this from various angles as a seasoned pro and a total newbie, and with various species. The one thing they all had in common was that as soon as anything became overly elitest, as soon the newbie was sneerd at or deemed unworthy, or worse yet Unwanted, that the whole game fell apart.

There used to be big excitement just before dog shows in Edmonton to see if we exceeded 1000 dogs per day. Now we winse and peer in the list to see if we have over 300. The proliferation of professional handlers with strings of 50 dogs adn 5 attendents etc made it so that there was no use going. The increasing elitest attitude of show breedser who brag about how little they breed and how few dogs they sell and how many newbies they have discouraged have endangered many breeds. These are the same people who copmplain if someone goes to a pet store for a puppy. If the waiting list is 2 - 3 years long for a family pet PLUS a massive and highly restrictive contract, dont you think they will go to the volume breeder or pet store? These new buyers should be cultivated and valued. They are the ones who will keep things going and bring in the broad base of support we need.

No one should be slamming or dismissing anyone else, and we need to rememebr that we all started somewhere.

Arcticsun wrote:My question as to how many booths had exhibition show birds and how many had birds from various sources, hatcheries, mail order, backyard flocks etc was actually just a simple querrie as to the ratio of booths with only show bred birds and with birds from various sources.


I have been showing dogs interntationaly for more than 35 years, I showed horses (AQHA halter and western) for many years, managed a major dessage and jumper stable, showed my alpacas and llamas, showed my cat breifly and have been showing chickens and rabbits for a short time. I have seen all this from various angles as a seasoned pro and a total newbie, and with various species. The one thing they all had in common was that as soon as anything became overly elitest, as soon the newbie was sneerd at or deemed unworthy, or worse yet Unwanted, that the whole game fell apart.

There used to be big excitement just before dog shows in Edmonton to see if we exceeded 1000 dogs per day. Now we winse and peer in the list to see if we have over 300. The proliferation of professional handlers with strings of 50 dogs adn 5 attendents etc made it so that there was no use going. The increasing elitest attitude of show breedser who brag about how little they breed and how few dogs they sell and how many newbies they have discouraged have endangered many breeds. These are the same people who copmplain if someone goes to a pet store for a puppy. If the waiting list is 2 - 3 years long for a family pet PLUS a massive and highly restrictive contract, dont you think they will go to the volume breeder or pet store? These new buyers should be cultivated and valued. They are the ones who will keep things going and bring in the broad base of support we need.

No one should be slamming or dismissing anyone else, and we need to rememebr that we all started somewhere.

I agree.

WOW!! The topic was dead and after the sale on the weekend it started to heat up again. This is great. Somehow it has gone way off the topic that was started but that alright. It’s certainly good to hear from all the different levels of breeders/keepers/dabblers and so on.

Someone is giving out some incorrect information when I read between the lines.

Poultry shows are for everyone and for all types of poultry, good/bad, purebred or non-purebred stock. It is up to the individual if he/she wants to show their birds. I have run Poultry Shows and Alberta and Saskatchewan for over 32 years and have never ever not accepted a bird into a show. So let’s get this perfectly clear that no one would ever be turned away from entering their bird. You pay your entry fee and the bird will be judged. If a bird is sick, it should not allow be allowed to be put into a cage.

Piet, you certainly know how to say the right things. Very well said.

I have always said if I can be of any help to anyone all you need to do is call me or email. Let’s stop the negative stuff and enjoy the hobby.

This is a bit off the topic but I needed to clarify a few things.

Sebas49 wrote:WOW!! The topic was dead and after the sale on the weekend it started to heat up again. This is great. Somehow it has gone way off the topic that was started but that alright. It’s certainly good to hear from all the different levels of breeders/keepers/dabblers and so on.

Someone is giving out some incorrect information when I read between the lines.

Poultry shows are for everyone and for all types of poultry, good/bad, purebred or non-purebred stock. It is up to the individual if he/she wants to show their birds. I have run Poultry Shows and Alberta and Saskatchewan for over 32 years and have never ever not accepted a bird into a show. So let’s get this perfectly clear that no one would ever be turned away from entering their bird. You pay your entry fee and the bird will be judged. If a bird is sick, it should not allow be allowed to be put into a cage.

Piet, you certainly know how to say the right things. Very well said.

I have always said if I can be of any help to anyone all you need to do is call me or email. Let’s stop the negative stuff and enjoy the hobby.

This is a bit off the topic but I needed to clarify a few things.

Thank you!

I must admit on hearing between the lines, I was very insulted that there was a vibe from a few who attended last weekends sale that people with hatchery bought/raised stock should be discourage from attending future sales because it was felt it lowered what the CHB mandate was about, which is the preservation of heritage livestock.

Reading between the lines, this vibe seemed to be more from what some of us newbies consider the old guard and I will speak only for myself, I took it as an insult that somehow I am less a fancier because my birds came from a hatchery than if they did from a breeder. If I had been at the sale and heard this directly, nelieve me, you would have heard about it. People such as me are just as proud to represent this hobby as any breeder is.

I agree that this has been a wonder discussion. I am glad the point was raised and answered. Thank you.

So does anyone know where I can find someone with houdans to sell me???

sorry if i offended anyone! toybarons how far would you be able to go for them? im sure in the apa yearbook there will be breeders with them

cornel wrote:sorry if i offended anyone! toybarons how far would you be able to go for them? im sure in the apa yearbook there will be breeders with them

Cornel, I don't think anyone was offended by what you said.
You made some real good points in your posts.

If you or anyone can help point me in the right direction, I could make arrangements. I have been trying to raise a flock of houdans since 2009. My initial project was a failure. However, from failure comes educuation. I am now partners with another for the Houdan 2.0 Project.

I am a member of the Polish Breeders Club and so far most of them are hanging onto their houdans cause they are in the same boat as I. Finding houdans that are sound and free of inbreeding defects either here in Canada or the US is getting more difficult each year. Especially since one of the last know exhibtion lines in the USA was lost a couple of years ago when it was sold and sadly dismantled by the buyer.

you could email the APA saying you are looking for them. the judges who judge a lot will see who as good birds. i have never seen a houdan myself, but ontario has lots of breeders of exotic breeds.

toybarons I didn't know that were looking for someone who might have Houdans. Anyway try this person, he lives in Minnesota and has many many different varieties of poultry. He is a APA judge and has shipped to Canada before. Mention to him that I recommended you to him and you should have some better responses.

Duane Urch 1-507-451-6782 he also has email but I don't know how often he checks it, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Duane is a great guy and amazing resource. He has his own famous line of Buckeyes! He has every bred imaginable, he breds for show and for the McMurray hatchery. He has a limited time that you can call him, early evenings. I have spoken to him about importing Buckeyes. I just couldnt wrangle driving out to Minnesota.

Urch/Turnland Poultry
2142 NW 47 Ave.
Owatonna, MN 55060
507-451-6782
Duane Urch breeds and sells show quality fowl. Call between 7pm and 9pm CST.


here is a link to his website.
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Thank you both for the information. It is really appreciate it. I will defintely try contacting him. I know my partner will be happy to hear that.

Again, many thanks

Arcticsun wrote:I have spoken to him about importing Buckeyes. I just couldnt wrangle driving out to Minnesota.

Well, if you ever do, let me know, I could add "just one more line" to my line, smiling, have a beautiful day, CynthiaM.

Hey everyone,

I have been sitting back watching this topic all along wondering how I will respond. I had to think about my response and I questioned myself "Where do I fit in?""
Many of you know me rather well.... sorry to those who know me really well Kidding. But those that have had the chance to get to know me, are aware that I am rather passionate about poultry raising.

A few years ago I had the opportunity to acquire a small flock of Black Orpingtons, beautiful healthy birds... I purchased these birds as part of a personal therapy project. I at the time was freshly just off work and dealing with many health issues related to my digestive tract..... For me buying these birds was more than just getting some chickens. I had already done that at an auction previous and ended up with 6 barred rock roosters... LOL No getting these Black Orpingtons was directly because of my affection that was created by helping my father, Tsamis, Raise his young flock of Buff Orpingtons.

I would spend hours with the Buffs just relaxing, and watching them play about and often at times they would come and hunker down on my shoulder or on my lap. It was then that I wanted birds of my own.
I decided to stick with the Orps, they had grown on me.
I attended my very first Show and Sale after being introduced to this wonderful community, back in Feb of 2010. It was there where I met the wonderful Marsha Small, who had a few different Orpingtons for sale. I remember seeing the black orps, a young quad, and like a newbie I thought... They come in Black??? I though they were only Buff. <--- Goes to show you where my head was at the time)
So now seeing this group of Blacks, I thought to myself. They are the same breed... Orpington, but different from Dad's Orps. I think Marsha will recall this... I pondered about it for the longest time and eventually I couldn't resists and they came home with me and the rest most of you have followed along with.

Here is where I way in now....

That was a few years ago now, almost three years now.... I still consider myself an enthusiast working his way towards becoming a respected breeder of Orpingtons, I could call myself a breeder of Orpingtons right now, and I do, But I don't market or sell my Orps as SHOW Quality, just "Quality" Orpingtons. My reason is this, when I first acquired these birds I had LOTS to learn, and still do. But over time I started inquiring more and more with my peers, two people whom I consider to be respected breeders....Rico and Heather. Asking them for insight on how to improve my lines. Since 2010 I haven't brought in any new blood, and have been following a breeding program that suits my intentions. I started to show my orps not to win a ribbon, but to have the opportunity to have Rico and Heather take a hands on Look at my birds, to hound them with questions as to what I should do, whom I should breed to whom and so on. What I should breed out, and most importantly health and quality... was I staving them, over feeding them... I am I doing harm to these lines as a beginner Their advice was taking to heart and I put the work in myself...started a feeding program, and started to breed out for myself.
I had brought some offspring to the second round of showing, at the CHB show in 2011, My Orps were given some nice compliments on how they are coming along from many people.

Recently on a trip to BC I had the pleasure of seeing Heather in person, and got a chance to see her place, which is just gorgeous, it was a quick visit but one that I will never forget. I was blown away, not by the beauty of where she lives, or her amazing set up... but by a simple comment, a huge compliment in my eyes, Heather mentioned to me and I can't recall her exact words and don't want to misquote her, but she mentioned that I have done rather well with my orpintons that they are coming along and i am doing good work. To me that means a lot, and I can see it for myself now, I am learning more what to look for, what to breed for what to breed out.

Ok so, to further ramble...

My intentions with my Orpingtons is to establish a vigorous, hardy bloodline. I want Vitality as well as a line that meets the SOP. I have no issues sharing eggs with others or selling chicks, everyone who buys from me is informed of what they are getting... I prefer to only sell and deal with those on this board, or attend the sales. I stopped selling at auctions as of this year.....and I have never sold through kijiji.

With my lines of Orps I want them to go to places where they will also be appreciated.

Now at the same time I also enjoy mixing the colours of my orps, and creating something different, like the bluffs. They are just a neat looking chicken... boy hen and roo. These are all variations of working with the same lines just mixing different Roos and Hens. I love sharing these with the public, as they are neat addition to any flock, but at the same time the quality is also there in these lines.

I just recently acquired a flock of Buff Orpingtons from KathyS, and I am very pleased to say they are some very nice birds....I was bugging Kathy for the longest time for her lines. and Now I look forwards to working with these lines and taking what I have learnt from my own Breedings and applying it to this group, to continue on the vitality quality that is already there.

I have other breeds, that we are working with Like Coronation Sussex and Light Sussex and Buff Sussex... Very few of them sold at the sale, and the ones that did all went to people I know. Most people that stopped by my booth at the recent sale came for Jonny's Opringtons, LOTS of people whom I have never met are aware of my Orpingtons... and I sold out fast... Almost everyone passed on the other breeds as if they were non existent LOL... I treat those lines no different than my Orps......and I have been also working on breeding and improving the Light and Buff Sussex with my father as well, a side project.

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with offering to the public / other poultry enthusiasts / breeders some of the various stages of your lines providing that you inform the individual exactly what they are buying and what the history of that line is.

I used to have many cross breeds on the property, but not any more, I just have my Egg layers who provide me breakfast... and I never sell off their stock.

I got MAJOR slack from many people at the sale about putting turkeys and chickens together in that brooder... Each and everyone to their own...

I have had ZERO health issues with raising turkeys and chickens together, but for this reason and this reason only... I Separate them completely at the 8week mark, and keep them separate. I have never had any issues and just because a few others have had issues with this, perhaps look at YOUR set up and the way you manage your birds and see if the issue is in reality poor living conditions or a lack of mismanagement.
I never house adult chickens or Turkeys together as there are way too many complications that can arise from this.


Bottom line is If there is an upcoming sale or someone wants stock from me... I will sell them or only bring what I feel is healthy quality stock that I would be honoured to say came from my lines, I would not bring anything that I felt was not good to go.

And in the case of the recent sale in Wetaskiwin, I was less than impressed with a few of the birds that I myself had brought down, there were a few that were not ready to go to this sale, way to young to handle the stress of such an event..... and in the chaos that was getting loaded up and ready Saturday morning, by mistake due to a miscommunication on my part, KareBare forgot and myself forgot to remove the youngest ones from that brooder and they came down to the show with us. I was honestly embarrassed as that was a foolish mistake on my part.
I am sad to say that I did have to put down one Turkey poult whose leg was broken from trampling, the rest of the birds whom were stressed at the show, did not sell and they are all back here fully recovered and acting like nuts.

I am a very honest person.. sometimes to honest. But it's how I was raised and how I live.

So am I am breeder, a keeper or dabbler or a waffler?

None... I am Jonny Anvil a passionate poultry raiser who takes pride in raising healthy quality birds.

Well said! Honesty and integrity are rare qualities in this day and age. And though I am not interested in orpingtons at the moment, I appreciate your openness in sharing your stock along the way. It is frustrating discovering a more rare breed you like and then finding out no one will sell. Keep up the good work.

Yes Jonny I remember!! I think you came back 10 or 11 times and checked out that Quad.....I was happy to find someone that was as intersted in the Orpingtons as I was in the black and blue colors and its wonderful to see where you have gone with them and I am looking forward to seeing our birds together on the show line and see how far we have come with the breed.
I have read and followed this topic for a few day now and it has really gotten me thinking about the birds and the humble beginning I had to where I am and going with them now. I started with 5 crossbred hens and a TERRIBLE buff Orpington rooster that a friend gifted to my son and I as we wanted chickens to lay eggs but not plain white birds. That was almost 6 yrs ago, in the mean time I have been a terrible dabbler! I have had almost 30 different breeds here from different sources before I settled on the 6 breeds that I have here now - thats just my breeds and not counting the breeds my sons and mom have settled on as that is a whole different kettle of fish! I wouldn't have gotten to where I am today with out the help of people like Rico, Heather, Jack, Coyote Acres, Hidden River and many more that I can't think of right now! I am a breeder and keeper and probably always will be as there are 2 breeds I just can't let go even thought they are far from SOP never mind show quaility but they are a work in progress and I am learning so much from improving them and breeding the others I have. This last sale in Wetaskiwin was a great source of pride for my family and I as every bird we took for sale had been hatched and raised here at the farm. No they weren't perfect and had been "culled" from our breeding stock for one reason or another but they are great backyard birds for someone to start with just wanting birds and these sales pay for my other breeds that I am wanting to show and improve.
Thank you to Sue and Rico for the great birds I purchased from you - they are doing great and I can't wait for the next breeding season!

Jonny Anvil, never knew you had such a gift to impart your thoughts. You made me have those cry tears, the ones of pride, the ones that just come and fill up your eyes, so you can't see, the shiver that begins from the feet and crawls up the body to the tip of the head. The pride reaction. You do yourself proud!! What a beautiful write up you created for us and I read slowly, so I did not miss a word. Thankyou for sharing, clearly from the very bottom of your heart, what you are up to with your raising of birds. You've come a long ways baby!!! Have an awesome day, CynthiaM.

Jonny wrote...
I am Jonny Anvil a passionate poultry raiser who takes pride in raising healthy quality birds.


And that is really what it is all about. No one is more right or better than any one else, we all love poultry and the robust diveristy of the heritage breds.