Are you a Keeper or a Breeder or somewhere in between?

Many people hatch and raise poultry. Do you raise them so you can sell them to make money, just to have them around or to show them or try to improve them? I think there are different categories that people fit into. The different categories I think are:
1. Keeper – keeps everything that hatches and does very little culling
2. Seller/buyer – raises birds or eggs to sell or buys from hatcheries, sales, and swap meets
3. Fancier – raises and keeps purebred stock and show them and knows good birds and will have a number of different breeds
4. Breeder – raises and keeps excellent quality birds of a breed that can be reproduced year after year. One becomes an expert on the breed.

Where do you think you fit in? Where do you hope to fit in?

I ask because if we hope to do more Poultry related seminars in the future we need to know the type of audiences we have, so hopefully we can help people to become more knowledgeable poultry people and become Fanciers or Breeders. We need people to show their stock and help us promote the good birds.

I'm a keeper. I CAN NOT cull unless the bird is suffering. I like to better the breed. I keep only 2-3 breeds. I hatch my own eggs now or get them from a long standing good breeder. I keep the best chicks and usually end up giving the rest away to good homes of course! I find it very hard to sell chicks. So many out there.
That's about all!

OH! I plan on showing my pride and joy birds in the Fall!!

Pluckylady

I ASPIRE to be a breeder, but this new in the game I cannot say I am one yet. I have a few breeds I am working on to improve, one I am creating and one that is already good quality and I am just trying to maintain, and this aspiration is the hardest of them all.

I have a question for YOU Rico. Why is this thread in the 'equipment wanted' topic?

I don't know where I fall. I don't show or hardly even sell anymore (got tired of people wanting terrific birds for dirt cheap prices). I keep a couple of breeds just because I like them. A couple of others I actually know something about and select for the better birds.

Breeder/keeper
Oh boy, now this surely does strike a heart chord. And I think that it is going to be a very difficult one to answer, correctly, as I am involved in all the categories, smiling. I know that Alberta is big on these training seminars and seems to have lots of people in close proximity to each other in places, but BC seems to be so far and wide between people, there just doesn't seem to like many events for learning. I depend alot on self-taught, studying and mentors.

1. Keeper – keeps everything that hatches and does very little culling

I do not keep everything I hatch, if something is not right, it is culled, euthanized I should say. Excess cockerels go to the freezer, I do not kill cockerels because they are male.

2. Seller/buyer – raises birds or eggs to sell or buys from hatcheries, sales, and swap meets

I NEVER, EVER would buy from sales or swap meets, and never, ever, ever, from an auction. I only purchase stock, and that too has been very limited, from people that I have become to know well and know what kind of habitat the birds come from. I am a seller for sure. I sell excess birds that do not come up to the standard that I am working on, and I tell that purchaser that there is nothing wrong with the bird, is is not exhibition quality. I think there are lots of very nice birds I have that would make excellent farm birds, just not the higher quality that I am trying to achieve. I see no need to cull a bird just because "she ain't pretty". Lots of good uses for birds that are not the best to look at. Yes, I sell eggs. I am not a rich man (gal), so I do need my birds to help supplement the hundreds of dollars that they eat each year in food. So yes, I do sell my birds and eggs.

I sold my group of light brahmas, after I entered the rooster and two hens into a show in the Okanagan and upon my asking, was told they were very poor type and would need so much work to bring them up to what a true light brahma would look like. I asked, and I was given information. But they were fantastic birds. They were friendly, big, excellent for the table and they laid huge eggs, and lots of them. They were wonderful, but not what I wanted to work with. This was in my earlier day of not even knowing that there was a standard of what a breed should look like, smiling that big smile.

3. Fancier – raises and keeps purebred stock and show them and knows good birds and will have a number of different breeds

I would love to be a better fancier. I like fancy things, and fancy birds are cool. I try to improve my three breeds. I have buckeye, cochin and buff orpington. I have worked hard to try to understand what is good, what is bad, what needs improvement on, I am trying to keep the best of what I raise. This takes a long time and I sell adult birds, because I know they are just not as good as they should be. Happy people that buy some birds that are just not the best, but as I said, wonderful in so many other ways, that they deserve to live, but just not in my flocks. I have a reasonable idea of what to look for in a good bird, nothing close to what I should know, but I am learning and listening and trying.

4. Breeder – raises and keeps excellent quality birds of a breed that can be reproduced year after year. One becomes an expert on the breed.

No. I do not have excellent birds and do not think ever in my lifetime that I will ever say that I do. I will NEVER become an expert and never will purport to be. But I will try to be a good raiser of the nicest birds that I can.

I think that this kind of thread is going to be a difficult one for you Rico, to ascertain what kind of training could be put in place for future programs, but you are doing a good thing. And we are finding out where we are all at, by looking at ourselves and putting ourselves “out there” on a public forum. A most wonderful and great thread, by the way, have that wonderful day, CynthiaM.

Oh ya, meant to say, I do like to show my birds and have shown a couple of times. I like to see how my birds look compared to others, and a couple have done OK in shows a couple of times. I like to bring my birds to show off what I have, even if they are not the best, they make me smile. I did get an award once with my gold laced wyandotte hen and a cochin hen. I will be the first one to admit though, that these winnings were not with alot of birds in the variety for the breed, but nevertheless, I got two awards, that made me feel proud and happy

Cynthia wrapped up my thoughts completely.
I am inbetween a seller/buyer and a fancier.
I have certain breeds that my daugther's and I are working to improve, showing to help us better understand how to do that and making improvements in our breeding selections as we go.
Some other breeds I simply have for layers and for selling chicks. I would never (even from the birds we have shown and done well in shows) sell them saying they were from show birds or exhibition stock, just gives people the wrong idea that they are going to get perfect birds.
We never buy from auctions, but we have bought from hatcheries. I have many people that come to me year after year wanting just pullets, so that is what I do for them. I import hatchery sexed pullets, make sure they are healthy and strong and then send them on to their new homes. Because we run a farm the animals need to pay for their keep, so becoming a breeder will never be on our list. We simply cannot cull everything that hatches, but would never sell anything we know has serious breed problems either (crooked beaks, etc). I have sold miss colored birds as layers, also birds with slightly crooked toes as layers. I tell the people they are not breeding birds and explain why, and most are people that have no interest in breeding anyways.

I do admire the people that are striving to improve breeds, keeping only those that are perfect in their minds eye and doing what they can for the breeds.

Sue, you are so observant. I just posted late night and I guess I screwed up or should I say the computer screwed up.

Smiling, who cares what forum it is in, I think it is cool that it is in the equipment for sale forum, smiling. I am sure that it will be moved to something or other else one day. Sure does catch your attention though, eh? have beautiful days, CynthiaM.

I think I am more of chicken slave. I buy, I sell, I breed, I eat, I fancy, I show, I have a great line of Cochins. But mostly I wonder how it is that I ended up with so many birds with one of this and two of that, and then I wonder if I can find a space for more silkies....

I think there should be another catagory, maybe small flock holder. SOmeone who has a nice little flock, they do everything else that everyone else does.

This is a tough one for me as well.

I am not a Keeper, but there seems to be a bird every year that I keep for no other reason than I just like it. I can be ruthless in my judgement of them but every year one seems to sneek in.

I am not a buyer/seller. I find selling birds very difficult. I do sell some of my better quality ones if I can but I am not a very good sales person, just ask any one trying to get something from me. I give away many birds not good enough for breeding to friends and family.

I am not a Fancier as I don't show, but I appreciate a nice show bird.

I suppose a Breeder is what I am closest too. Having said that my stock is NOT excellent quality that can be reproduced year after year. I hope to have that one day....maybe. I am certainly not an expert in the breeds I have choosen either, but I love to get as much information about them as I can. I also don't think the way to better a breed is to just breed perfect birds to perfect birds (if you can find them) but to breed birds that have the things you want together to try to improve them to the standard that you want them.

So I guess, like Sue, Hidden and CynthiaM, it is a tough question for me to answer.

you are all chicken freaks... LIKE ME!

ooo ok, I know the term...


CHICKEN HOBBIEST!

I like these categories, I think they are well thought out. Might I suggest one?

DABBLER

I keep birds that appeal to my eye and personal idea of purpose. I cross birds just to see what comes out. Sometimes it is boring, sometimes it is surprising and sometimes you get lucky and get something you really like!(Dark Brahma rooster over Black Australopr hens, I LOVE those babies!)

A Dabbler has a smallish flock, not through culling, but because they have not yet discovered a way to racoon proof the chicken pen. SO while a Dabbler creates interesting mutts, they are also trying to design and build a chicken pen that is more like Fort Knox than a picturesque hen house.

A Dabbler sells eggs to the neighours and maybe hatching eggs to someone who wants to test drive a bator. Will also sell chicks to people but not make a single claim about the lay potential, growth potential or anything else about their chicks other than "They are chickens."

A Dabbler appreciates their poultry just the way they are, imperfect and heavily predated, noisy, poopy, dinosaur-like and amusing. If you ask a Dabbler why they keep poultry, they are likley to smile, shrug and ask if you'd like to see their chickens.

Thought provoking thread.

Ooooh, I will add to that, Uno,

Waffler

The Waffler does not know what she wants. She buys a breed, doesn't like it, buys another, it doesn't suit her, ends up with another. She buys from many sources and sells the same way. She really hasn't got this chicken thing sorted out. So she joins a forum and it eventually all falls into place.

At first I will have to admit I was a waffler.

Schipperkesue wrote:Ooooh, I will add to that, Uno,

Waffler

The Waffler does not know what she wants. She buys a breed, doesn't like it, buys another, it doesn't suit her, ends up with another. She buys from many sources and sells the same way. She really hasn't got this chicken thing sorted out. So she joins a forum and it eventually all falls into place.

At first I will have to admit I was a waffler.

I think that's how most of us start out. Worse, it is SO EASY to do with chickens because you can pick up birds so cheap.

I love the responses. A "Dabbler or Waffler", I like that. I certainly seen myself in those categories the first few years when I was getting started.

I consider myself a Fancier/Pet Poultry owner.
My birds are part of my family. They live in my home. Each has a name. I can call my birds by name and they will come to me. They follow me around just like a toy dog. I started out with exotics keeping budgies, cockatiels and parrots. I treat my chickens no differently. I want the very best I can offer them, especially when it comes to their health and well being.

I think this is the level I would stay in. I don't have the heart to be a breeder. I have issues with culling for standard. I can cull if a chick is born deformed or sick but I refuse to cull a bird for a cosmetic defect when they are otherwise healthy.

The seminars that I would find interesting would be ones about exhibting birds especially on the finer points of the art.

Another would be health of the flock. Espeicially the vaccinating issue. I still find this VERY VERY confusing as to whether one should vaccinate a flock or not. It has been only since I started to exhibit birds that I have even considered vaccinating for ILT, Merecks, AI. But yet after talking to some people who I thought would be 100% for vaccinating, people I consider professional exhibitors, I found out many of them don't for their own reasons, it just makes me question if I made the right choice to vaccinate.

Seminar on breeding like the importance of nutrition, vitamin balance and ratios to bring both the hen and cock into optimum condition. I am just getting into this area and learning the importance of this. Especially in regards to preventing birth defects at the embryonic stage of a chick's development. I know in the cage bird world we spend a lot of time and money fine tuning the diet of breeding birds but the information for poultry seems to be limited.
I don't think many people realize or even consider this when they get into breeding poultry.

i would have to say im with toybaron. I think im a fanier/pet poultry type person. All of my chickens have names and i like to think that they know there names i give to them.

We are most definitely Dabblers/Keepers, with a small interest in selling eggs someday. My fascination is with purebred ameraucanas and ameraucana crosses, the latter of which will get me nowhere at a show or sale! I will take unnecessary roosters to be butchered, and cry all the way home. As beautiful as farms like Tara's are, and as much as I appreciate all that is being done to improve and beautify breeds, there is a charm to the old-fashioned mixed flock that I can't resist. I do select my breeds carefully, and gotten rid of what I don't wish to continue with, but that won't happen again. I learned that the first year when we picked up a "variety pack" of breeds, but it helped me learn what I really wanted to have. If space wasn't so limited here, I would probably have a lot more breeds, as so many do interest me. My son is a little more interested in working with his favourite breed, partridge chanteclers, but at 16 he probably won't get far, with college looming up in a few years. My other interest is personally mixing their feed, and would like to learn more of what to mix and in what proportions to give each stage of life the best nutrition. And I have a new hobby - harvesting weeds and sprouted chicken feed from the garden for my very excited chickens, though my kids still call it weeding

Ooh ooh ooh! I am a waffler, for sure!

I haven't been in this long enough to slot myself into any of these categories yet. What I am motivated by is the love of poultry and heritage breeds in particular along with a desire to do 'my part' to bring my chosen breeds back to the original standard they once were. I am not interested in just a beautiful show bird (although appreciate them greatly and those that are into showing). They must have a decent rate of lay and would like most of them to make a good table bird at the end of the day. I see them as an important source of food for us and treat them like they are our pets, giving them the best life I can.

I am also motivated by wanting to share what I have and know with others in our community who want to do their part by supporting heritage breeds for all the reasons the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy states.

Thanks for starting this thread.

I am a seller/buyer, but I do not cull and I wish that I could stock my freezer with roos, especially the one that we have right now. I have sold duck eggs to people across Canada, and am just now hatching some duck eggs from Denman Island in hopes of injecting new Male genes into the mix. I love my chickens and have some lovely Cuckoo Marans, but lost my dear Maurice who defended his girls from a bear while the chicken sitter was napping. I am looking not for a roo to take his place, nobody could, but another Cuckoo rooster who would be good to his girls. I love the ducks too. I guess thatn I am a keeper too.

Ah, a great catagory, Waffler...me too, me too!

I aspire to be a breeder. I want to learn how learn how to "see" all the traits that birds that meet the breed standard should have, how to select the best, how to determine who to pair mate, etc. I have learned a lot but I have a very long way to go.

I think it's great what organizations like CHB have done, holding seminars, ensuring well run shows happen, hosting sales. I would never have made it to a show without that kind of support and I would like to continue to learn so that I can improve the quality of the breeds I have chosen. The only barrier to attending for me is the distance sometimes makes it difficult. It just means I have to pick and choose the event I participate in.

I would not find it that enjoyable just to be a keeper, no fun in just owning someone else's accomplishment for me.

And I don't much like to sell birds so that's not for me either.

What was that forth category Rico?

We certainly are getting a board spectrum of poultry people telling us what they wish to become or what they really want. I guess the ultimate goal for a few would be to become a breeder of certain breeds but that is not easy and it takes many years of dedication and had work.

Each to their own and hopefully everyone enjoys it. I guess the extra category that that should have been added is a dabbler. I believe a dabbler is more then a "Keeper" and "Buyer/Seller". Hopefully a dabbler will dabble enough with breeds that he/she becomes a fancier and will show and promote their stock.

Keep them coming I love the responses.

I would be a waffles also. I hope to eventually become a breeder but am still trying to decide on my favorites.