QUIT SELLING CHICKENS!

uno wrote:I do like this raw dog food idea. BUt I worry that feeding my dog a dead raw chicken will make him consider helping himself to my live chickens? Could this style of feeding encourage your dog to become a chicken killer? I know it's a long shot, but still..

IF a dog is going to be a killer it will no matter what it eats. There are people who raise hunting dogs that feed raw and the dogs don't eat the birds before they get back to the hunter. I have one dog that would kill if given the chance but she would be that way if fed kibble. I have one old boy who can walk into the rabbit barn and not even notice them . Others would attack the cages. Just in case I don't feed rabbits or chickens with the head. They don't evenhave skinon so its just meat.
Geri

Geri,

I have also wondered about feeding the dogs whole chickens. They eat supermarket chicken backs and necks, but we feed the german shepherd whole rabbits once in awhile, and she would take them without permission if she could get at them. I took a chance today and fed her a whole, freshly dead 3 wk old broiler. I removed the wings, feet and head and pulled the skin off the whole thing before giving it to her. She will happily eat dead day old chicks, as well. I am crossing my fingers she won't ever go after the live chickens. She has been sneaking through the chicken doors to steal eggs lately, because I also feed her raw eggs in the shell. Hubby loves to tell me its my own fault for feeding her eggs. (She's his dog). I would never live it down if she killed her own chicken...

SucellusFarms wrote:Geri,

I have also wondered about feeding the dogs whole chickens. They eat supermarket chicken backs and necks, but we feed the german shepherd whole rabbits once in awhile, and she would take them without permission if she could get at them. I took a chance today and fed her a whole, freshly dead 3 wk old broiler. I removed the wings, feet and head and pulled the skin off the whole thing before giving it to her. She will happily eat dead day old chicks, as well. I am crossing my fingers she won't ever go after the live chickens. She has been sneaking through the chicken doors to steal eggs lately, because I also feed her raw eggs in the shell. Hubby loves to tell me its my own fault for feeding her eggs. (She's his dog). I would never live it down if she killed her own chicken...

Lola had never killed a chicken, however she witnessed a fox tearing them apart and cleaned up the scraps. I don't think it's so much that she got a taste for it, rather than she saw something that resided on the property before her doing it so figured it was alright. I've caught her trying to corner them a couple times and no longer let her go around them without constant supervision. With that said, they'll graze right by her face when she's tied up and she barely looks at them. I think its a matter of prey drive, and Shepherds have high drives. Bull will steal eggs if I set them down somewhere and I feed broken ones whole to him. Losing an egg or 2 to the dog doesn't really bother me much.

! Hijacked.

I don't allow my dogs access to the rabbits or the chickens so i do not have a problem. My dogs also eat eggs.
Geri

I used to feed raw, which included raw ground chicken. If you can find a pet food processor have them kill and pluck the chicken, remove the parts you don't want, and put the whole bird through the grinder, internal organs and all. I highly doubt the dog will look at the extruded product and think, hey, now I'm gonna kill chickens.

I've been feeding raw for years and agree with Rasilon - a raw food fed dog won't suddenly start killing animals and eating them. That instinct is in them or not and most of them are on kibbles. I feed my dogs chicken and turkey necks and I don't think feeding them a whole chicken will cause them to suddenly make the connection. It'll be the taste and smell and so far, stats show, they don't start killing their food, necks or whole bodied.

We also feed healthy table scraps.

Will chicken guts make the dogs sick? Sometimes I have a bird die (usually from my hands), adult, not sick, but hurt by something, and wish I knew what to do with the carcass other than driving it up the mountain to sacrifice to the chicken gawd, to feed the wildlings...in my special spot -- not sick birds, talking about death injuries by other critters here now and then. And then of course, how do you quickly skin a chicken so they don't think feathers equals meals. Sigh...a tale to tell, have an awesome day, CynthiaM.

CynthiaM wrote:Will chicken guts make the dogs sick? Sometimes I have a bird die (usually from my hands), adult, not sick, but hurt by something, and wish I knew what to do with the carcass other than driving it up the mountain to sacrifice to the chicken gawd, to feed the wildlings...in my special spot -- not sick birds, talking about death injuries by other critters here now and then. And then of course, how do you quickly skin a chicken so they don't think feathers equals meals. Sigh...a tale to tell, have an awesome day, CynthiaM.

I feed deadfall to the wild cats. Carcasses resulting from injury, by me or otherwise, I would feed to the dogs.

I agree that feeding dogs raw won't turn them into killers. We feed kibble, but beng that they are farm dogs, they also clean up what they find around the farm, including placentas from calving, and the occasional dead calf (usually something that was aborted early, we don't lose many full-term calves - this year, we haven't lost any at all), or the extremely rare occurance where we have to put a cow down (usually to a case of old age-itis). None of our dogs have ever tried to go after a live calf or cow.

I do feed raw chicken to mine. It depends on which dog on weither they will go after them. I have two mixed bred and my boxer. Only one of the mixed bred wants to go after the chickens or turkeys and that started long before I ever fed them a chicken or turkey. I do process theirs just like ours as it is all in the same freezer and I dont want to check to see which birds I am grabbing, just want to grab and go. So theirs have no feet, no necks, only select internal organs, and have been bled out. In the winter, I thaw it in the house first. In the summer, whole frozen and as it helps to keep them cool. And no, I do not feed raw in my house with my kidos, strictly outside in their runs where they sleep.

If I have a freshly killed bird due to injury (my daughter was playing with the goats and stepped on a chicken and broke its leg clean through) then those are swiftly dispatched and I just through the whole thing over to my pigs. Feathers, guts, everything. I have live chickens that get into the pens and clean up grain and bugs, pigs ignore them.

So I really do believe it is in the animal weither it is fed raw or cooked or none.

I feed raw meat when I have it the dogs love it Bones and all. They dont go after the Poultry or other animals
My dogs are funny they will not touch a dead chicken or other poultry if it still has feathers on it

I wish! As soon as it's dead my dogs consider it a free-for-all and I try very hard not to let them have anything with feathers still attached. I've hit them with a full feathered carcass when they try and grab the head when I walk with it. I prefer they look at chickens and remember being hit with it than have them attack the birds. Bear takes interest in the guineas, but I watch him carefully.

The idea that a raw fed dog would become a killer assumes that the food is the driving force behind the hunting/killing. It is not. In behavioural terms, the act is broken down in the brain. The animal gets pleasure from tracking, then from stalking, then from chasing, then from attacking and killing, pleasure from eating comes last and isn't connected to the others.

If this breakdown in behaviour pleasures did not exist, it would be impossible to train a dog to especially enjoy one particular aspect. For example, Border collies have been selected to particularly enjoy the stalking.

well said Fowler

Sweetend
The dogs know the rules here LOL if they kill a chicken or other poultry they have one more chance if they do it a second time they find a new home. They are here to protect the birds not kill them
I love my LGD and the pups and they seem to know the rules The adult LGD I have seen them correct the pups when they chased a old rooster that runs the yard and now the rooster walks among them
my old goose even slept with the pups she died of old age the other day sure miss her

Mine are still young and still learning. And I pitch an absolute fit if they sniff in the direction of the birds. Generally, they go in the coop and eat the bedding ( ) without issue. It has just been Bear who shows interest in the guineas, but I just think their sound drives him nuts. I watch them closely, and thus far, they've never outrightly targetted a bird, but Bear will follow the guineas and show enough interest that I correct him for it. Monster got within 3 feet of the turkeys the first day they were out and one of the Tom's gobbled at her and she just about died. Fell over herself running off.

However, just from having had Bella, the incredible chicken catching dog, I try to remove as much of the recognition of a chicken (ie feathers, heads, sometimes feet) that I can.

I agree with Fowler. My boxer for instance loves to "chase" anything she can. But, she will not touch any of it either. She chases it and then lays down beside it and barks wanting it to run some more so she can chase some more. Yet with baby animals she lays there with them. Chicks can lay on her. She will help to stimulate calves, she is even protective of the baby goats. Yet, you put a cat in front of her (her favorite thing to chase as they actually do run) and she is all for it. Even that though is just the chase as the house cat and her sleep together. If they dont run, she doesnt want anything to do with them!

Sorry we sort of got away from the topic of chickens.

That's okay, it's my fault, I asked the question. I am reading all this with interest.

CynthiaM wrote: And then of course, how do you quickly skin a chicken so they don't think feathers equals meals. Sigh...a tale to tell, have an awesome day, CynthiaM.

Cynthia, yesterday I used my garden hand pruners to cut off the wing tips, feet, tail and head, then used a pair of scissors to open up the skin and just pulled it all off. Don't open up the body cavity at all. The guts all stay inside. If the pruners cut the bones but not the skin, use the scissors to take the appendages the rest of the way off.

uno wrote: bless each egg that you get because there are people on this planet who have none!

I just have to say ~~~ I am truly thankful and grateful everyday that I go out and collect my eggs because an incredible kind soul gave me six laying ISA's because she was getting way too many eggs for her own family to eat! so basically she gave me just under half her flock, and it brought me to tears--- those six hens will lay enough to feed both my girls a day if I need them to... it was an incredibly kind gift and one that I do bless each egg for!


I think that some people need to be much more appreciative of where their food comes from, and to be grateful of whatever they can get because you never know what lays around the corner for you!!

(hahah lays... okay that was a horrible unintentional pun! I will go back to lurking know!!)

My dogs have NEVER had anything raw....with or without feathers and 2 out of the three would happily help themselves to a live chicken dinner. One really good dog, one pretty good dog and one really, really REALLY rotten little dog!

lanaire-ranching wrote:I just have to say ~~~ I am truly thankful and grateful everyday that I go out and collect my eggs because an incredible kind soul gave me six laying ISA's because she was getting way too many eggs for her own family to eat! so basically she gave me just under half her flock, and it brought me to tears--- those six hens will lay enough to feed both my girls a day if I need them to... it was an incredibly kind gift and one that I do bless each egg for!

This lurker whom I'm glad posted has brought up a valid point.

I got started on a $25 flock of sickly, horrendously cared for birds. To be honest, I'm not sure if I had not purchased those, just what animals I'd have right now. They were a gateway drug, really. I looked at buying hatching eggs, day old chicks, even older hens, and I couldn't justify, as an inexperienced person with only books before her feet with which to go from, paying $40 a dozen, or $10 a chick, or $35 a laying hen. I didn't have an incubator, so to go the egg route would have been very costly, I had heard horror stories from people who had decent, sometimes exemplary, animal husbandry about losing 75% of their hatch, and what if I killed a laying hen because I didn't know what I was doing! Those $5 birds were worth the risk and worth the trouble, and they were beautiful, friendly birds when they all went through a moult and got healthy again. They taught me a lot.

Perhaps us cronies selling birds off on the cheap are expanding the market.

I've been silent waiting for the conversation to swing around again. And I agree, I feel so much better selling these sweet but not quite perfect birds to people who can appreciate them but either can't afford or don't want more perfect specimens.

I don't want to feed them to my dogs.

That's how I feel and that's what I'll keep doing.

I understand Heda. I think not selling them for SOMETHING is like... not taking a job that'll give you SOME money because you think its better to be jobless than to get minimum wage.

Where did this post begin? With me replying (sort of) to someone who was disgusted over how little people wanted to pay for a POL pullet.

Let's make a distinction. Some of us are saying that we were given or bought birds very cheaply for which we are ever so grateful for the gift of chickens and the blessing that they are.

Most of us here, myself included, would far rather GIVE or cheaply sell birds to someone who appreciates, than haggle and justify our prices to someone who feels entitled. I am all for doing good works and kind deeds. But that was NOT what this post was about. This post was about those anonymous people who phone you to yap about how your prices are too high and someone else will undersell you. Well then, buy from someone else and do not bother me with your idiotic phone calls!

If giving your chickens to someone will help them out of a tight spot, then give them. If feeding your surplus birds to your dogs is a way you can feel they were not wasted, then feed them to your dogs. If you sell your extra birds to a select few people approved by yourself as being worthy to receive them at such a good price, then do so!

BUT...as Sweetened said, are we in the business of giving our money away? Higgins said it too. A chicken HAS VALUE, she will produce something OF VALUE throughout her life and when we end her life, her dead body is of value to us as soup, dog food, or in my case, sturgeon bait. (fishing back before it was illegal)

But the vast majority of the eating public who want your chickens and want them cheap will pay more for a case of beer or pack of smokes than they want to pay for your chicken. And the reason they don't want to pay for your chicken is because it might cut into their beer or smoke money. It is the Canadian farmer trying to find ways to cater to the ever entitled, wanting more for less eating public that has pushed farmers OFF THE FARM and into other work to support the hobby of feeding the masses. STOP FEEDING THE MASSES FOR NOTHING!

Let's not confuse a few kind and generous acts with recognizing the value of a chicken. It is okay, on a small scale, to allow valuable birds out of your hands in controlled circumstances, now and then. But it is kicking the legs out from under your fellow breeders to let them go for $2 at auction (as I did) or $6 at POL, as some locals do. That is not enough. That is insult and damage to all poultry raisers.

For the record, I have givne birds to a man in need. Those birds should have given him between 4 and 6 eggs a day. He was so grateful, fresh eggs, how wonderful. He was ever so happy to have them, as he let them starve to death. Told him TWICE what he needed to feed them, where he needed to get the feed, and all those birds starved to death. To him they were worth exactly what he paid for them: nothing.