Selling Chickens

Another thread on here has brought up the topic of different types of breeders.

Obviously, I have many different breeds. I have them because I enjoy something about each breed. I have sought out the best stock possible in each breed I have, and have been very selective about which birds make it into the breeding pen. However, I do sell chicks and eggs to people who also enjoy the breeds that I have. I will soon be downsizing as I can't continue with all the chores when I begin 12 hour shifts through the summer for my practicum at school, which is sad, but what can I do? I will concentrate on a few of my absolute favourite birds and that's it.

I guess what is bothering me is how I am lumped into a category of people who have "too many breeds to have anything of quality", not only because of the breeds but also because I sell eggs and chicks. I work darn hard to have the very best quality of chickens I can have, I have raised many, many chicks to pick a few to make it into breeding pens. I have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars building my flocks. Yet regardless of all this, I am lumped in with people who breed anything that looks somewhat like the breed it's supposed to be, regardless of quality. I do not breed hatchery stock, all my breeding birds have been hand reared and chosen specifically.


I realize I am not selling 100% show quality birds, and I never would say that I am, but in my situation (as with many others) selling adult birds so that I can claim all I sell is show quality, is not possible for me. I feel that by offering chicks and hatching eggs, I am able to share my birds with a huge amount of people that I wouldn't be able to otherwise. I feel this is one of the reasons that heritage breeds are becoming extinct.

BriarwoodPoultry wrote:
I realize I am not selling 100% show quality birds, and I never would say that I am, but in my situation (as with many others) selling adult birds so that I can claim all I sell is show quality, is not possible for me. I feel that by offering chicks and hatching eggs, I am able to share my birds with a huge amount of people that I wouldn't be able to otherwise. I feel this is one of the reasons that heritage breeds are becoming extinct.

I for one am thankful for people like BRiarwood. It is far too hard to find good stock in chickens. I have a freind who has emailed and called numerous people to obtain breeding stock and they don't even send a negative reply back never mind a positive one.And they are right if more people don't get involved in breeding certain birds there won't be any. JUst by looking at pics of their birds I can see they are much better than what I have and I am gratefull that they do sell eggs as it makes it easier for people like me (in the center of Canada - the middle of no where)to get good stock and start my own breeding program. Hopefully with a mentor I can breed a winning show bird. It does a breed no good to keep good stock stock in one place. Look what happened to that line of turkeys. Just my thoughts.
Geri

I remember seeing this post somewhere, so I liked reading Briar's response as I tended to lean to that side anyway.

I think on a large scale, people get in over their heads when they have too many breeds and not enough time. Quality starts to dwindle and the breeder may become blind to defects and the like, continuing to promote their (maybe) show quality 'stock' because they have the original show rooster/hens still in their breeding program.

I also think, mind you, that people like Briarwood take care to avoid these measures. I haven't been around long enough to learn about her, her flock, breeds and size, but by her above post I'm willing to assume a couple things. Going back to long shifts = less time = less concentration/time for selection. The responsible thing to do is what she is doing, which is downsizing her flock. Maybe her reasons are different than this, but it will allow her the attentiveness needed to continue working on the quality in her strains.

I know I'm probably the most amateur chicken person on the threads right now, but all of this just seems logical to me.

Keep up the good work, Briarwood!

BriarwoodPoultry wrote:


I realize I am not selling 100% show quality birds, and I never would say that I am, but in my situation (as with many others) selling adult birds so that I can claim all I sell is show quality, is not possible for me. I feel that by offering chicks and hatching eggs, I am able to share my birds with a huge amount of people that I wouldn't be able to otherwise. I feel this is one of the reasons that heritage breeds are becoming extinct.

I agree with you Briarwood. I think there are a few of us in this world that get lumped together by show people as not selling quality birds. I do admit myself to have been drawn down the path of too many, but I have always looked for quality and learn something every hatch about faults and good points. Even show breeders do not produce 100% show birds, they are the first to admit that, I guess their point is they will never sell a bird with a fault. They cull and only sell the good birds. But never the Best birds.

I am not sure how to put my thoughts down on this right now without ruffling some feathers, I just wanted to say I agree with you and that just because a person breeds more than a couple breeds of birds it does not mean they do not do their best to keep the quality there.

I am not sure how to put my thoughts down on this right now without ruffling some feathers, I just wanted to say I agree with you and that just because a person breeds more than a couple breeds of birds it does not mean they do not do their best to keep the quality there.[/quote]

I agree with both of you I have gotten great birds from the 2 of you but also run into people that have trouble with the fact that I could have top end birds with so many breeds, it takes more than just good stock, you have to look after them and feed them a good diet, mine are all free range on 80 and that gives you an even better bird. I have very good stock and sell poulets and cockerals at the 3 to 6 month range and in the spring chicks and some hatching eggs. I charge a fare bit for the older birds and some people get very upset, but I have orders already for spring totaling over 400 poulets and cockerals some repeat customers and some just wanting good quality foundation stock.

I think if you could go to your breeding pens and grab a chicken to show and it would do mot bad at a show you are doing your best to keep your show line quality up. When i say go to your breeding pen and grab a bird i mean to go in and grab the first bird that comes near not pick and choose. From the pics i have seen of both hiddens and briars stock they are beautiful birds and you guys are doing a good job with your flocks. I would like to thank you and those of you who are keeping up your standards!

So how come that most all the ones with so many breeds have a cool website with nice sales pitches, like coming soon! or now available! Charge 60 dollars for a dozen eggs??!!
And you would not sell your best either! With good animals (not their best)from a breeder that has established a good line that is proven, you can do just as good if you are willing to study the standard and breed many, cull hard.

Sorry to be the bad guy here, but my feathers get ruffled also. Some choose to breed a chickens for their own joy and show them, they may GIVE away great stock to people that have the same intentions. But most just come up to the breeders and say, I wanna buy that one. Well you can't buy shit, because this is not a store! Go to the miniature hatcheries that will sell anything to anyone and play with those chickens. I like to know who I sell to and what their intentions are. I would like for someone that buys or gets animals for free from me, that they not show them, but instead use them to breed and then show their offspring! You are buying a piece for your puzzle that you think you need.

Then the show people get the blame for not selling any, well it takes time and effort to try and pry away a good breeder bird from a breeder that is not in it to make a dollar, you can't just put a price on those animals that took years to develop. To me there are some rabbits and birds at my place that you could never buy, don't care how much money you bring.
I also keep my youngsters and chicks for long enough so that I can see where the good ones come from, I can't tell from day old chicks or 4 weeks old bunnies. If I sell them as chicks, how the hell am I gonna know who produces what?
You are not saving heritage breeds by producing as many as you can and selling them off!!

Dog breeders and puppy mills are two different things, just saying.

And that is MY opinion!

Piet

This is why chickens are such a great thing to be into. People can pick what suits them and do it their way. There isn't a 'right' way, there is just the best way for you.

I have to say that personally I agree with Piet. Even if you have great breeding stock to start with and have done the hard yards to attain the best you can, you do not know what they produce until you grow them out for a few years and pick the best out of them. It is about establishing a breeding line that is predictable and that takes years. That doesn't mean others that have more breeds do not have good birds, to me it just means if I get birds from them I get LOTS so I can cull heavily and still have the birds I want.

Having said that, I will probably sell a few day olds this year when I have done the breedings that I want for myself. It will be limited, but aimed to help me feed the birds that I want to grow out.

So I guess I will be doing a little of both this year. My goals are to establish my birds the way I want them and do this for me not a business. You all know I already give a lot of stuff away, just how I happen to do stuff, but it is always on my terms.

Again, that is just how I do it. To each his own.

Piet wrote:

Dog breeders and puppy mills are two different things, just saying.

And that is MY opinion!

Piet

Hi, So where are we supposed to get stock from? I have stated my intentions on the forum. I want to raise exhibition quality birds not hatchery birds. I have raise mini rex and no matter how much I sold the young for they all went with a pedigree and I kept a record of who I sold it to. As far as knowing who produced what i asked how people kept track of that because to me that would be very important. I gues i could have stopped after the first sentence but oh well
Geri

I don't know what to say, but I have a bit of a bad feeling
I'm not and will not become a breeder of show quality.
I do have to many different breeds.
Last year, I ordered quiet a lot of different breeds, just to find out which breed I would like the most.
I have to downsize in # of breed, but not by culling! I can not cull a chicken. If a chick has a bad legg or something else that I think it would be a crime to keep it alive, I give it to my husband and he can kill it. Not me!
But to cull birds, because their comb is not perfect, it's a no for me, sorry.

And I personally think, there is nothing wrong with breeding/sharing birds that are not to the SOP. Many buyers just want some chickens in their backyard.
And why are people ordering from McMurray/Ideal? Just because a lot of breeds are hard to find here in Canada. I think I have the same quality, or better, but why do we have to breed to the SOP?

However, if I make breeding groups, I pick the nicest birds I have.
And I do appreciate the hard work that show breeders put into it.

Anna

I am sure both hidden and briar have birds they would never sell from each of their flocks also. I guess i look at it this way i have horses that will never leave my place confiation wise they are beautiful but i would never breed them for other faults. I also have one here who would never do well in a show because of her gait in a show but i will be breeding her as she has many more of the desirable traits than her one " major" flaw in the showring. I would be very hard pressed to sell her if someone came along as she is one of the few horses i would trust. I guess i look at raising chickens in the same way. We will have those birds who will die on our place because they are "perfect" to look at but may have flaws in other areas where we would. Ot use them for breeding or vice versa. If a person does their best to provide high quality birds from good lines i dont think they should be painted black because they may have more than one or two breeds. I have seen "show quality breeders". Who only raise one or two breeds who have some of the poorest looking birds ever does this mean i should paint all show breeders with the same brush?

I dont mean to ruffle alot of feathers but will state my experience and opinions openly I may be fairly new to the heritage breeds thus ask alot of questions, but have found that if i ask questions i can learn more than just book knowledge

This 'culling' word gets thrown around alot.

Culling for me means that they do not go into my breeding program. My 'culls' get sold as backyard layers, given away to friends and family, some are good enough for other breeders to start with just do not suit my program so they get sold too, go into my 'layer' pen or the some of the boys go in my freezer.

Do not assume that because a person uses the word 'cull' that it means they are randomly killing healthy chickens because that is not the case.

I can tell you right now that most breeding birds are not 'perfect' or anywhere close to it. They are breeding stock used to try to breed better and more consistant birds.

Rasilon wrote:

Piet wrote:

Dog breeders and puppy mills are two different things, just saying.

And that is MY opinion!

Piet

Hi, So where are we supposed to get stock from? I have stated my intentions on the forum. I want to raise exhibition quality birds not hatchery birds. I have raise mini rex and no matter how much I sold the young for they all went with a pedigree and I kept a record of who I sold it to. As far as knowing who produced what i asked how people kept track of that because to me that would be very important. I gues i could have stopped after the first sentence but oh well
Geri

Geri,
You can find top birds if you are willing to put in a little effort. Go to a show and if you see something that strikes you, approach the breeder. Speak to them and you may have to wait a little, but often will part with something at some point. Or you can buy from a hatchery and order 200 of one breed, grow them all out, take the best 4 hens and 4 roosters and work with that for some years, but I know you don't want that. There ARE hatcheries have a generally fair quality in some of there breeds.

I know what your intentions are and I think they are great, just don't give up when you cannot find the right bird right away. That is why you need to talk to people and not just send an email or post a wanted ad on a forum.

I personally like to do barn visits, where you can talk one on one to the breeder and see the animals he/she uses for breeding and keeps. You can see several generations at different age groups. Those trips are your most valuable ones and will teach you a ton about the breed you are interested in.

Where do you live Geri? Edit to add: I only just see now where you live on your avatar. The show would be a long drive.. Do you know about the upcoming show in Wetaskiwin this February?

Piet

I would also like to add that I used to get my husband to do the deed if it needed to be done. One day he had a chat with me saying he did not like doing it any more than I did. He didn't have an interest in the chickens, although he does enjoy the eggs. Ever since that day I have taken on the responsibility of my birds in ALL ways and I actually feel better for it. I don't like doing it if it needs to be done, but I don't think it is right to make someone else do it just cause it makes me feel unpleasant, especially when it was making him feel the same way and he just didn't know how to tell me about it.

I had a feeling Briarwood would get a lot of comments on this thread!

coopslave wrote:This 'culling' word gets thrown around alot.

Culling for me means that they do not go into my breeding program. My 'culls' get sold as backyard layers, given away to friends and family, some are good enough for other breeders to start with just do not suit my program so they get sold too, go into my 'layer' pen or the some of the boys go in my freezer.

Do not assume that because a person uses the word 'cull' that it means they are randomly killing healthy chickens because that is not the case.

I can tell you right now that most breeding birds are not 'perfect' or anywhere close to it. They are breeding stock used to try to breed better and more consistant birds.

Fully agree, when I get my dog castrated, I consider that culling. He can no longer reproduce, but can be part of the family nonetheless.

Piet

coopslave wrote:This 'culling' word gets thrown around alot.

Culling for me means that they do not go into my breeding program. My 'culls' get sold as backyard layers, given away to friends and family, some are good enough for other breeders to start with just do not suit my program so they get sold too, go into my 'layer' pen or the some of the boys go in my freezer.

Do not assume that because a person uses the word 'cull' that it means they are randomly killing healthy chickens because that is not the case.

I can tell you right now that most breeding birds are not 'perfect' or anywhere close to it. They are breeding stock used to try to breed better and more consistant birds.

Thanks Coopslave. That's how I work

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Piet wrote:

Where do you live Geri? Do you know about the upcoming show in Wetaskiwin this February?

Piet

HI has been brought to my attention that i did not give my location . It has been rectified . I live about 1/2 an hour north of Winnipeg Manitoba. The very center of Canada, the middle of no where. lololo We had a APA show here 2 years ago. It brought some breeders from out west. I met Rico and his Dutch which I fell in love with. Still waiting Rico! We who live here realized that the birds in the province leave alot to be desired. I have contacted some breeders privately but I think email is very impersonal. I like to talk to people on the phone. I realize that I won't get birds "Right Now" and am willing to be put on a waiting list. But if people won't sell where do you get good birds? I would love to go to the wetaskawin show but I can't get time off work in such short notice. And I can finally add a link to my website so please come for a visit.
Geri

I appreciate the replies

For me, I cannot afford to give away more chicks and eggs then I do already.... Neither myself nor my parents are independently wealthy, so I do need them to pay their own feed costs for the year.

I do not wish to disrespect serious breeders or discredit what they do. I also disagree that people like me are akin to puppy mills..... Puppy mills are overcrowded indiscriminate breeding houses full of malnourished, underfed digs bred as many times as possible, breeding anything with the right parts. I work in a vet clinic and you can rest assured my birds do not live in these conditions. They are fed and watered and checked on about four times a day.

Anyways, back to chickens, not everyone wants to buy show chickens, some people just want to have nice quality pets. Some people aspire to have show birds but do not live in the right geographical area to pick up adult birds and some people plain old can't afford it.

I will continue to sell chicks and eggs to help support my hobby. I will continue to volunteer my time giving farm tours, speaking to people for hours on how to keep poultry and trying to spread the good word about heritage poultry.

Piet wrote:The show would be a long drive..

Piet

I have been know to go the extra mile so to speak to obtain breeding stock. My first mini rex was from a breeder in Alberta. I drove (by myself) to a show in Saskatoon picked up the rabbit and drove straight back. I also left home at 11pm one night and drove straight to Iron River Wisconsin (by myself) to pick up a chocolate rex doe and drove straight back and got home at midnight the next day. She was to be the beginings of my chocolate line, sigh, she died 5 days later. I do not have the vehicle to drive like that any longer my van is getting old. So I have to rely on breeders being willing to ship to me.
Geri

BriarwoodPoultry wrote:
I will continue to sell chicks and eggs to help support my hobby. I will continue to volunteer my time giving farm tours, speaking to people for hours on how to keep poultry and trying to spread the good word about heritage poultry.

Thank you

Good Post Piet!
From where I sit I can proudly say that I do not have 400 pullets and cockerels spoken for and will be luckly to hatch 400 chicks. Good stock can be obtained and if I said it once I'll will say it again "we live in a must have now society" to many people want it when they want it and are not willing to give most breeders the time to provide them with good adult stock.

I for one have always said I will not sell it if it is not good enough to remain in my barn as a breeding bird and by waiting for young adults people have a much better chance of producing birds of the same quality that I have but of course it is up to them to do the work to pick the quality ones or have me help them. By saying breeders don't sell their best birds is a "cop out" as breeders generally retain birds that are going to do for them in the breeding pen in the end.

As a mater of fact at the last show we just came from, I gave away the trio of Brown- Red Moderns that were the Champion Trio to another breeder, why it's not about the money for 1 and secondly I know they will use them for a fact to improve their birds and thirdly I have 2 brothers to that cockerel that are equally as good so my breeding program will not suffer.
But that being said there are many other who don't have enough money to get birds directly from me as I have put a lot of time 6 hrs a day in my barn improving my stock for someone to take and supply the world with them on my farm name. Sorry to be so blunt but to the right person who has proven to me they are into the hobby as a passion with the intent on working towards building a great flock my birds are free or reasonally priced for adult show quality birds, with great breeding potenial.

I accept that everyone has their niche and really don't care one way or the other what path each of us chose to take so everyone should just do as they please in the end but it is gratifing to see a few people trying but always remember where you set your standards is where your flock will be and after a certain point it becomes a business not a hobby and we all know how big business generally cuts corners. Just my take on this subject.

Heather

well said amanda, i for myself do NOT wish to have show quality chickens either...when i have to VENT pluck cochins to keep the breed alive and "breeding"thats where i am done...show quality does not mean superior, look at english bulldogs who cant breed or have babies on their own...humm ya think thats man made?? and yes there would be no such things as bulldogs if man didnt make them into the breed they are with breathing prblems/whelping problems ect....
i myself will NOT go to a show and brig home show birds for breeding i have seen many birds at shows who have chronic respiratory problems ect...no thanks. my chickens are happy< healthy and give me enjoyment thats all that matters to me i pick the best of what i have and breed there< and i will share them with people who want them.

I am totally glad that someone clarified the word "cull". That word conjures up a thought that means "death" for surely. I don't like the word cull, it sounds like such an awful word, sorry. Think I personally won't use that word again. There are other words, maybe a combination of a couple of words to indicate if I kill or let a critter go to someone that wants just a nice critter. Have a beautiful day, CynthiaM.

Choose words wisely when one speaks, smiling again.

viczoe wrote:Good Post Piet!
From where I sit I can proudly say that I do not have 400 pullets and cockerels spoken for and will be luckly to hatch 400 chicks. Good stock can be obtained and if I said it once I'll will say it again "we live in a must have now society" to many people want it when they want it and are not willing to give most breeders the time to provide them with good adult stock.

I for one have always said I will not sell it if it is not good enough to remain in my barn as a breeding bird and by waiting for young adults people have a much better chance of producing birds of the same quality that I have but of course it is up to them to do the work to pick the quality ones or have me help them. By saying breeders don't sell their best birds is a "cop out" as breeders generally retain birds that are going to do for them in the breeding pen in the end.

As a mater of fact at the last show we just came from, I gave away the trio of Brown- Red Moderns that were the Champion Trio to another breeder, why it's not about the money for 1 and secondly I know they will use them for a fact to improve their birds and thirdly I have 2 brothers to that cockerel that are equally as good so my breeding program will not suffer.
But that being said there are many other who don't have enough money to get birds directly from me as I have put a lot of time 6 hrs a day in my barn improving my stock for someone to take and supply the world with them on my farm name. Sorry to be so blunt but to the right person who has proven to me they are into the hobby as a passion with the intent on working towards building a great flock my birds are free or reasonally priced for adult show quality birds, with great breeding potenial.

I accept that everyone has their niche and really don't care one way or the other what path each of us chose to take so everyone should just do as they please in the end but it is gratifing to see a few people trying but always remember where you set your standards is where your flock will be and after a certain point it becomes a business not a hobby and we all know how big business generally cuts corners. Just my take on this subject.

Heather

Heather I like the way you put things on here, you seem to get your point across without causing conflict.

I know that nobody want's to sell the best out of their barns and that makes sense, but it is frustrating for us getting into this to get quality stock, and then have other's put us down because of how we go about raising money to buy quality stock.

Yes I have a fancy website, yes I sell day old chicks, and yes I make money doing it. This money goes back into the 3 breeds we (my 2 girls and I) have picked to improve upon. I love all the breeds I raise, I am doing what I can to learn what is good and bad traits and breed away from the bad and improve upon the good. Like Briar said, many people just want nice chickens to lay their eggs on their farms, so why not have people like "us" that will help to produce decent birds to sell to them, stirring them towards the heritage hobby and away from the commercial birds?

I know a couple members on here that I have sold to in the past, some of their first experiences with birds, they have moved on, started to specialize in a certain breed or two and are getting very serious about it. So in a way "us" people that raise and sell multiple breeds are helping the heritage birds not hindering them.
It is all about giving people an option...

CynthiaM wrote:I am totally glad that someone clarified the word "cull". That word conjures up a thought that means "death" for surely. I don't like the word cull, it sounds like such an awful word, sorry. Think I personally won't use that word again. There are other words, maybe a combination of a couple of words to indicate if I kill or let a critter go to someone that wants just a nice critter. Have a beautiful day, CynthiaM.

Choose words wisely when one speaks, smiling again.

It is too bad about the bad conotations that the word cull has. I use it to mean they do not go into my breeding pen and then I use the word 'dispatch' when I have to end something's life, for one reason or another. Just the language I am used to and old habits are hard to break!