My New Project (cat related)

I think the cat hoarding situation is more of a human mental health issue. Not a cat problem.

I hate having more and more bylaws. Giving officials the right to come on my property, go in my buildings, issue fines and take what is mine. And really not effecting the change desired. It is REALLY hard to write an effective by law!

It is good to discuss these issues.

Ok, so from what I am getting from the discussion is that getting something organized for spay/neuter and maybe ID would be the best/most effective way to help.

I do like the idea of marking the cats that have been done already in the case of strays. Totally makes sense.

I guess I am having a difficult time thinking about the people in my area as horders. Maybe that is what they are and nothing more.

I am on the fence about the catch and release of the ferel cats but better fixed than not.

I agree with the comment about not giving the authorities more reason to access your property at any time.

I think that I may look further into the spay/neuter programs and leave the legal end alone. Who knows, maybe I can get some politicians at least interested and edorse it?

I have my direction now, thanks. Please keep coming with the ideas!

Forcing spay neuter is a slippery slope feeding directly into animal rightists arms. Very dangerous game to play. And in the case of rural cats, it is pretty much unenforceable. People will shoot the less desierable ones rather than pay big bucks for a spay. This can mean injured animals left to die horrible slow painful deaths.

Working out a low cost spay program would be much more effective. There are programs like this in many places and they are highly succesful. The mobile spay is a great idea. I saw a program about animal welfare (not the same as animal rights) and the Rv went around doing cheap to free spays. When it comes to cats neuters are a 5 minute quickie that is dont by the tech, not the vet, in many areas.

Forcing people to take an action/make a choice is not giving them a choice, and will not be well received.

Agreed! Better a carrot than a stick!

Yes, I see the problems with the forcing people to spay/neuter. I don't like to be "told" what to do either. Too bad you can't force some people to see the complete insanity in keeping 30 unalteres cats in the house...cat lover or not, that is just not ok!

My man and I have just been discussing this and I have another angle. These people in the country that have an excessive number of cats in the house, can there be a health code violation?

One of my original thoughts about the by-law was to give the authorities a tool to use when these situations come up. One person has 30 + cats in and out of the house and the house smells like urine and her poor child (almost teenager) smells strongly of cat spay almost constantly. SPCA can't do anything because the animals are healthy and happy. Police can't do anything becasue they have no grounds for anything at this point.

I have a hard time with the people who will not do what they need to to at least try to remidy their "situation" and over and over again give every excuse why they can't. I don't care if it makes your kid sad to give away some of the cute kittens! If you can feed 30-40 cats and need to go to the food bank to feed you and your kid, you have some serious f#cking problems!

Sorry about the rant. Back to cats.

How do you make people responsible for their cats? Why should vets do spay/neuter for free? it does cost them to do the procedures even if they do donate their time. Who pays for that? Damb hard issue, as are many things in life.

Sometimes I wish I just didn't give a crap...but I do. It is not my responsibility or right to fix people or situations but would be great to make something a little better.

To be honest - I find it REALLY hard to believe that 30 cats are all healthy and well taken care of. Most people are unable to adequately care for more then one. *shrug* I know there are cases where they get taken away in those circumstances but I'm not entirely sure the "how" part.

Arcticsun wrote:Forcing spay neuter is a slippery slope feeding directly into animal rightists arms. Very dangerous game to play. .

Forcing people to take an action/make a choice is not giving them a choice, and will not be well received.

A VRY slippery slope when you consider there are many people out there who are breeders of purebred animals. Often all sweeping measures and by laws forcing spay and neuter ties the hands of quality, legitimate breeders. If there were a bylaw in my county saying all companion animals must be spayed or neutered then I would be done. Over 20 years of developing a breed, done. And don't say, oh there would be exceptions for breeders. Where do you draw the line? Breeders that provide papers are exempt? Well what about those that breed LGD and don't worry about papers for their working animals? Many times when such laws come into place they are sweeping and all inclusive and NO exceptions are made.

Too true. I guess that would give the other crazies an in to make it about stopping breeders too....sigh...

I was going to say "why can't people just let other people do their own thing even if they do not like the idea?" Then again, I guess that is exactly what I am doing under a different banner...

I can't fix crazy, just want to help the kitties...

This further solidifies my thought of how horrible things can go if the proper people (the ones the laws will affect)are not consulted. The powers that be usually have little idea of the reality of the situation and grab a stance and are unwilling to see the "reality".

I am glad that I can receive opinions and ideas that make me think about things in a different light. It would suck to be too stubborn to take into account any other ideas but your own.

I agree with Sue.

Why should one person in a neighbourhood be allowed to breed their useless, pampered and practically retarded cosmetic house cats, while the barn cats down the street are illegal? In this country we call that discrimination and mostly we're against it. If I can't breed my barn cats, then YOU can't breed your precious cats either! It's called the knife that cuts both ways. And Sue is right, who gets to decide which cats are deemed acceptable and which are not?

I see it all the time, people who want to control the actions of others and come screaming to Council demanding a bylaw. Then when they discover their bylaw also restricts them, well holy crackers, it was never meant for THEM it was meant for the other people!

The lives of many, many animals are tragic, thanks to us. What can be done about it? Good question.

I genuinely believe you are dealing with a hoarding problem. Hoarding problems can be dealt with and the person put into a mental health program by reporting the problem. All it takes is a health officer or inspector to head out and observe a problem and then action is taken.

Albeit, I think, for the most part, hoarders still need to be respected while being helped, I do think that the process of "we're just going to take and euthanize all of your animals" is a very bad approach that just results in new hoarding. I really do believe this is a mental health issue. Hoarding is defined as owning more than 6 8 animals without the ability to maintain their health and feed. If the child smells of cat urine, I can guarantee the state of the home is unfit for an adult, let alone a child.

There are programs in place for these things. Working for Simple House, I've been into many hoarding houses and seen the devastation.

chicken crack wrote:

I am on the fence about the catch and release of the ferel cats but better fixed than not.

The stray cats that get dropped here are feral. You cant catch them if you wanted to and if you did get them in a live trap then you had better be ready to be scratched up and bitten. However, I am all for the fixing and releasing! They are some of the best mice hunters here.

That is the ones here on my property. However, since so many come and go, there is no way I could fix them all myself, would have to be a drastically reduced price!

Don't get me started, Uno! Some prople think they they and only they have the right to breed an animal. I have already been witching to Arctic about this. I am on a purebred dog forum. They are complaining about this ad. Can anyone figure out why?

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Sorry, CC, I suppose this is slightly on topic. Slightly.

Schipperkesue wrote:Don't get me started, Uno! Some prople think they they and only they have the right to breed an animal. I have already been witching to Arctic about this. I am on a purebred dog forum. They are complaining about this ad. Can anyone figure out why?

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Sorry, CC, I suppose this is slightly on topic. Slightly.

Without trying to be annoying, ugly puppies... however, why are people mad at that ad?

Is it because the puppies aren't a recognised colour????

Is it the part where they want $1,100 but the pups aren't registered?

authenticfarm wrote:Is it the part where they want $1,100 but the pups aren't registered?

I've seen people ask 1500 for mutts. "To make sure they go to a good home"

coopslave wrote:Is it because the puppies aren't a recognised colour????

And aren't they supposed to have a little tuxedo jacket on?

You guys are so funny. The breeder is breeding an unrecognised color (by the CKC). Markings may be off, but even breeders get that. On top of the sin of breeding blue, the puppies are not registered.

But the worst of her transgressions is SHE IS ADVERTISING HER PUPPIES ON KIJIJI!

No legitimate breeder would ever do that.

I laugh though, because I know breeders that offer less and look far less professional. However, no CKC ctamp of approval means SHE IS DOING IT WRONG!

The dog world is lousy with self absorbed, god-like breeders.

Personally anyone with 30 cats is a hoarder, and for the sake of that poor boy that has to live there,

someone needs to report her to social services ( not that they are the be all end all. ) but that is just

plain cruel for him to have to go to school, and out in public places smelling like that, and having to be

teased and taunted, and don't say he isn't. Because kids aren't kind. It is cruel--To that BOY.

If you do anything, to feel better Please help that boy.

Have you ever watched hoarders or animal hoarders on TV? She is a hoarder, and they are mentally

sick. Please help him.

Schipperkesue wrote:You guys are so funny. The breeder is breeding an unrecognised color (by the CKC). Markings may be off, but even breeders get that. On top of the sin of breeding blue, the puppies are not registered.

But the worst of her transgressions is SHE IS ADVERTISING HER PUPPIES ON KIJIJI!

No legitimate breeder would ever do that.

I laugh though, because I know breeders that offer less and look far less professional. However, no CKC ctamp of approval means SHE IS DOING IT WRONG!

The dog world is lousy with self absorbed, god-like breeders.

and the bad thing is they will sell as they are a new color to the pet market
They have done the same thing to the Frenchy they have them in blues now and I could go on and on about the new colors they are selling in the different breeds

as for breeders selling on Kijiji
I see alot of the show people selling on Kijiji here in Canada and in the states

if you do a search on Kijiji for CKC in the dog section you will be surprised

Appway, don't tell anyone, but I have advertised on Kijiji. Shhhh!

I also rarely have any dogs for sale. I am too busy showing them.

Now, I wonder if cat breeders scorn the use of Kijiji?

Now we are slowly looping back to THE THREAD. Almost forgot what we were talking about originally!

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Schipperkesue wrote:Appway, don't tell anyone, but I have advertised on Kijiji. Shhhh!

I also rarely have any dogs for sale. I am too busy showing them.

Now, I wonder if cat breeders scorn the use of Kijiji?

I wont tell any one as long as you dont tell anyone

As for the Registered cat people They also sell on there as well as the barn cat people
I could never understand some of the ads they post There is a person that advertises on there that has Mixed cats that have manx in them and beings some of them are tail less she asks big bucks for them and gets it as well as polydactal
Cats people have been selling them for big bucks saying they are rare so people buy them
Regina has a law that all cats must have a license amd has also raised the price of them so now more people are dumping their cats as they wont license them
and that just adds to the over population

HigginsRAT wrote:Just watched this on TV...interesting. 700 cats on 12 acres In California, July 2011.

I'm no crazy cat lady... insists the California animal lover who lives with 700 felines

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Tara

Not quite,as extreme, but this reminds me of the Hemmingway cats.

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So, how many cats makes a horder?