My New Project (cat related)

I love cats! Anyone who knows me will agree.

I have been pondering how I can make a little of a difference without taking in any more rescues. That is too hard on my other cats, our family and the pocket book.

I have decided to at least try to start the ball rolling to implement a by-law for the county I live in (Yellowhead) about farm cats.

I would like to see a by-law in place that stated there the cats kept even as farm cats need to be fixed. There would be some figuring about numbers of unaltered cats allowed but that is the idea.

Constructive comments, advice and discussion more than welcome!!!

Here are my thoughts, they are not solidified as I know I do not know everything and like to hear others opinions.

A long while back, on the farms there were unaltered cats and the population was generally kept under control by way of predators, accidents etc. These days, in most areas anyways, there are nowhere near the predators there once was.

Just in my small area, there are 2 (that I know of)homes that have an excessive number of cats that are mostly unaltered AND they are in and out of the house!

One has (not kidding here) over 20 that come into the house when it is cold. Total number is near 30. Only a few are fixed and she has a hard time every year feeding them. Then when someone wants to have one of the kittens, she will most likely not give it away because her son would be sad!

So, this spring there will be just at her house alone, an explosion of kittens. Let's just say for arguments sake that there are only 5 unaltered females. Just that would produce in the neighbourhood of 20-40 new kittens. Some may die but most will live. The population continually climbs.

Another area home has reportedly at least 50 cats. A good number of then in and out of the house as well.

I do not know all of the people in my area because I have been here only 5 years so I shutter to think how many more places there are like this.



I would not like to see the numbers limited on farms as there are of great use to many farmers. Some sort of regulation would be good though. You will not get everyone to comply, that is a given. BUT if a by-law can at least reduce the number of people keeping so many unaltered cats then that would make a big difference.

Opinions please. Remember though that I specified that not all areas are the same as far as predators etc. That is why I am thinking only county-wide.

You most likely will need some caring veterinarians who are willing to waive or greatly reduce the fees for neuter/spay. If the woman cat hoarder, who has issues paying for cat food, needs to have money for spay/neuter, she won't comply. Then animal control will be asked to remove the animals and most will be destroyed.
She'll likely end up bringing in replacement cats and simply keep them indoors, creating health issues for all involved.
Any changes should be done gradually and in the most supportive way possible.
Community involvement, in the form of donations for spay/neuter may help. Educating individuals always has positive results. People who don't know, can't care.
The idea is great. Cats are destructive on the environment when their numbers get out of check. Spay/neuter, rather than removal, is more beneficial in the long run, for control.
Good luck!

I would think just a limit on cat numbers per farm would help the issue. I will be perfectly honest, if some one tried to make me spay my 5females I would not comply, not because I want kittens, but cats usually do not last lo get than 2 years here. Between the road, ravens, owls, eagles, and coyotes I loose cats at a ridiculous rate. In the 8 years we have lived here I have gone through 16 cats, plus 2 that moved to the neighbors and now live there

I would have a severe issue with someone coming and telling me I had to spend $250 on cats that would disappear shortly after they were spayed! Just my thoughts

I agree with Auntieevil, I think a person needs to get the vets involved, I know here we only allot enough money each year to spay or neuter one cat, we advertise and rehome the rest. We are up to 4 that are fixed but that still leaves us 4 that are not.
And I am also on board with Smokey, we have one momma cat here that we will not spay, she is an excellent mom and supplies our farm with replacements for lost cats, she teaches them to hunt and does a great job of it, going out and getting city cats would not cut it out here, they need to know how to hunt and survive on minimal from us.
If there was a supplement in place to help me get the rest of the cats done I would surely do it, but at $250 a crack to spay them I do not think you will have a lot of farmers on board for this by law. Also how many cats does one farm need? It really depends on the rodent poplulation on that farm. I know at our place there is no way 2 cats could handle all the pens/coops/barns. So hard to put a number on it.

Your best time spent would be to see if the county would help with a subsidy program, and not just for those that cannot afford it, but for any farmer that wishes to have their animals fixed.

There was quite a few wild farm cats here when we came. They do seem to disappear at a rapid rate. I got a male 2 years ago and we fixed him, he is still around while all the others are gone. He goes bush in the summer and gets half wild and then comes back. I think because he is fixed he survives. We have another young male that we have fixed too. They will be our only 2 farm cats, I think I have seen one wild one that is left too, and I will see if they both last the summer again.
I do believe the survival rate is higher on the fixed cats.

Not sure about where you live but in Dawson Creek the SPCA has a spay/ neuter program for cats and dogs. Not sure how exactly it works or if it would help you, just and idea. Good luck, fellow cat owner.

I would like to see a 'SpayMobile' that would travel around the countryside, spaying and neutering animals at cost. I wonder how the logistics of this might work?

I went on a spay/neuter rampage a couple of years ago and had all the females and one of the male cats done.

The vet I use charges $90 for males, $120 for females. I don't think that's unreasonable. Another local vet is close to that $300 mark, so ...

We haven't lost a single one of the spayed/neutered animals! The one male that was left intact has since disappeared.

As cute as kittens are, I find it is too hard to part with the ones we have raised in the past - easier to just spay/neuter and then not have to deal with it.

If we do run low on cats, I will be getting them from the SPCA. A couple of times a year (whenever they get too many cats), they run a 2-for-1 adoption on cats, with the bonus cat being the less-desirable black or grey ones. They come already spayed/neutered from the SPCA, so it just makes sense - cheaper to get them from there than it is to raise kittens and then have them altered!

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As to the original post, I don't think you'll have much success in a spay/neuter bylaw. A limitation on numbers might be a more realistic goal. We have five cats here, and we find they can keep the mouse population under control, and we have a large yard with many buildings.

Depending on your county, they may already have a bylaw stating how many cats/dogs you can keep. However, unless someone gives them the heads up about problem cat owners, they don't usually know about it and therefore can't/don't enforce the bylaw.

Authenticfarm, it is good to know if you call around you can find good prices for spay/neuter. I would like to find some better prices myself.

All 6 of our kitties are spayed or neutered. They stick around the farm and come to the house every night for the safety of the garage.

The SPCA"S also have a "Barn Cat program", where you can get these cats for free.

They are all fixed, but for various reasons not housecat material.

Go to the SPCA and get them there. I'm sure they would be very happy to have less cats around.

I think I am with Smoky on this.

When I inherited the property, we also inherited about 30-40 cats. It was almost unbelievable the number we’d see sometimes, especially at night turning into the driveway, so creepy. I can certainly say we had no mouse problems whatsoever. In the summer, our numbers suddenly dropped and we were seeing only 4 or 5 cats regularly, plus a couple others that only came by once or twice or got trapped and released when we were trapping a vicious Tom that had made our property his home. We saw no new kittens. Over the fall and this winter, we only saw 3 kittens. One was dead in the middle of the yard, so young his eyes weren’t even open, and the other 2 grew up a bit, maybe 3 months old, before we found one dead in the cat house – the other has just disappeared. We’re down to 10 cats on the property, plus my personal pets, only one of which is indoor/outdoor at this time and he is –not- fixed. We will be removing the new violent tom that has moved into the neighbourhood, as he has completely torn the above-mentioned cat to shreds and I will not tolerate mean toms as my cats will be back to indoor outdoor in the spring and I will not have them beaten up or killed by one. The bruised and battered cat, as well as a cat I accidently ended up with that I call (for censorship purposes) Little Shizan, will not be fixed. I plan for them to put some new genetics into the girls around the property as I suspect a lot of the fall off of population is related to genetic fatigue, but its just a guess. We have 3 coyote packs as well as foxes, skunks, raccoons, mink and combines as predators and, though I expect to see explosions in populations in the easy years, it very much regulates itself here.

For that matter, I don’t feed them much in the spring/summer/fall, they work for a living. I only provide them consistant feed and water during winter – these cats are wild and untouchable (I have the through and through scar in my finger to prove that fact). I can see it, possibly, being handy in areas with easy winters and low predation, however, respectfully, if I was told I had to fix my cats because it was law, I’d be terribly angry. All my other cats are fixed, save the 2 mentioned boys (there’s 4 others). Responsible ownership is really what matters, and the houses nearest to me are over a mile away. We share our cat problem, and I’m fine with that. Noticing that our numbers dwindled, We’ve also had an explosion of mouse presence.

I also agree that there should be farm-spay programs. But then you run into farms like mine where, good luck catching all the cats as they’re extremely wild and vicious. I’m not a fan of a barn cat you can’t catch because if one is injured badly and needs to be put helped, they’ll kill themselves to get away.

I admire your thoughts.

lady leghorn wrote:The SPCA"S also have a "Barn Cat program", where you can get these cats for free.

They are all fixed, but for various reasons not housecat material.

Go to the SPCA and get them there. I'm sure they would be very happy to have less cats around.

The SPCA is VERY different here. I went there looking for barn cats and I was not even allowed to look at the cats until I filled out forms. The cats had to be kept in the house and yada, yada, all sorts of other stuff. When I said I wanted barn cats, they screwed up their faces and said we don't let our cats go for THAT! I said 'fine, put a couple to sleep then that could have gone to a good home' and walked out.
That was my first experience with the SPCA since I came back to Canada and thought how things had changed. Just stupid I think. Our barn cats are well cared for, snuggle with baby calves, are well fed and loved and snuggled every day.

My only problem would be the fact that here, we have 5 fixed barn cats that are ours. Year round people drop off cats here. Never seen one yet that can be handled or is fixed. I am not paying for a stray to get fixed or a cat that doesnt belong here. At the same time, the SPCA doesnt pick them up here, too far out of town. Fine. If I take them in and tell them I caught them in live traps that they are not ours, they want to charge us about $150 for dropping it off. Again, I dont have the money to do that to a dozen cats a year. It is cheaper for me to put out extra food to make sure our barn cats are fed. The strays dont usually stay very long. Only two have survived since they were dropped here. But, I have yet to ever see kittens here either. We still have major predator issues here. So there has to be something for those people that get animals dropped off all the time. Even if the SPCA will take them without extra charge or something. But we shouldnt be penalized for someone else being irresponsible.

While this idea is good and honourable in principle, it is practically unenforceable, thus there would be no point having it on a county's bylaws.

People who hoard cats are not going to be cured by bylaws anyway. Mental illness cannot be bylawed out of existence. Which is unfortunate.

Coop...more than one person has gone away from the SPCA with a bad taste in their mouth. I think they have lost sight of their purpose, but that's just me. Horse Daughter wanted to look at dogs a while back and like you, they would not even let her in to look at them until she filled out a form, gave finger prints and an ounce of blood and passed a skill testing question. She failed on the question, poor home schooled dummy. She was NOT a happy camper. (no, she is NOT allowed to have a dog until she lives at her own place)

It sounds like there are two different issues here - feral cats like many of you have around, and pets like these people have with all 20 something in the house! That is not a feral cat. In fact, that is cat hoarding. It makes me feel sick to my stomach. It is a perfect place for upper respiratory tract infection to run rampant. Yech. THAT person needs to vastly decrease the number of cats they have, there is no need for 20, and no way one person can adequately provide for them either.

Coopslave, that's what happened to us with the Vernon SPCA. We were looking for a med. sized dog and had actually filled out a form and were approved."We had our last rescue basset hound for 15 years" The dog we were interested in was part of a seizure and from what I could find out there were some legal issues. The dog went back to the owners, some months later we were still looking and dropped in one day to have a look at what they had avilable and were stopped cold could not even look, they had misplaced our approval form and wanted us to fill out the same forms again and get new approval before we could set eyes on any dog. We left in disgust, I think we would have given some dog a wonderful home aand it would have been spoiled rotten. Never went back instead we bought our Louisa from a breeder, who thinks we are a great home. No wonder they are so over run. I understand being careful where you place animals but "Really"! The lady there was so rude.

Heather

authenticfarm wrote:

If we do run low on cats, I will be getting them from the SPCA. A couple of times a year (whenever they get too many cats), they run a 2-for-1 adoption on cats, with the bonus cat being the less-desirable black or grey ones. They come already spayed/neutered from the SPCA, so it just makes sense - cheaper to get them from there than it is to raise kittens and then have them altered!.

Our Edmonton Humane Society has a barn cat program. Cats that would be put down for reasons like spraying, etc. are spayed and sold for a nominal price.

authenticfarm wrote:

If we do run low on cats, I will be getting them from the SPCA. A couple of times a year (whenever they get too many cats), they run a 2-for-1 adoption on cats, with the bonus cat being the less-desirable black or grey ones. They come already spayed/neutered from the SPCA, so it just makes sense - cheaper to get them from there than it is to raise kittens and then have them altered!.

Our Edmonton Humane Society has a barn cat program. Cats that would be put down for reasons like spraying, etc. are spayed and sold for a nominal price.

The SPCA wants you to adopt pets, spay neuter, stop puppy mills and stop buying from breeders, however they'd rather spend time gas chambering dogs and cats, whining about the numbers of dogs and cats they are 'forced' to euthanize.

The Humane society in Regina is an absolute joke. Moose and I are advocates of the bully breeds, however there are certain pit bulls and such that without the perfect, well trained and intensely skilled handler, are too far gone for the general public due to either bad handling or breeding, and yet they put them up for adoption, dogs that literally attack the cages when people of a certain race, creed or gender walk by -- then they wonder why pit bulls are given a bad name.

In addition, their kennels are filthy, their dogs are hyperactive and unstable and they charge outrageous amounts for their animals. They're un-socialized and poorly cared for. Despite having a barn cat program, they expect the animals to be kept inside a barn at all times, which is ridiculous. I have refused to adopt from there.

When the Edmonton Humane Society was the SPCA it was a disaster too. That would not allow breeders to look at dogs to help them get lost or rescued animals back to their card carrying CKC registered breeders. They actually worked against breeders. If I heard there was a Schip in their gulag I would have to get a friend to say they had lost a Schip, go in, see the dog and look for a tattoo. We actually returned a Schip to an owner by adopting it out of the SPCA, identifying it ourselves and contacting the owner. A strong breeders group has a network and we work together to make sure our breed is not left in the SPCAs. The Edmonton SPCA would not work with us, the enemy, breeders who made these dogs. It made me sick.

Don't get me going....oops too late. Sorry Chickencrack.

I'll have to say That I as well wouldn't be for any bylaw that ask's me to take care of other peoples problems ,and that is cats that appear out of nowhere !We have three left from four ,of which the one that was killed on the road a week ago was the only one we took home ,and it was a tom and it most likly went "" visiting " accross the road ? My son was sad ,but as we said there is a female on our yard that showed up last year ! and I did offer to get rid of it .......but my wife and son wanted to keep it ? it will most likly have kittens again this year and I can't do much after that ! We have a lot of Tom's running around here and in a way I don't mind ! they will kill off litters that the females have had outside ( as was the case here last year ) to bring them back into heat .......if they can catch them that is .I have cleaned up enough wild cats as well as some that I'm sure someone dropped off in the "" Country "" with the thought that they would be welcome with open arms .Myself I don't particulary like cats ! although a lazy Carfield type works for me ,but the mess they leave behind isn't worth the effort as far as I'm concerned .We have a small dog that kills more mice then the cats I think and he barks as a warning system .....cats just lay there ? I think it's up to everyone to better manage what they have ,get rid what ever you don't want and what can't be given to a good home ,we had five kittens last year ....two went to good homes ,one crawled into the motor of the wifes SUV and one dissappered ,one is left and will most likly be cleaned up this spring as well ( sickly looking ) ......back to two cats ,one to many .Not to offend anyone who has different views ,just my thoughts

Thanks for all the comments! I do see this as an almost impossible problem to fix. Even helping would be great I think.

The SPCAs do leave people frustrated for sure. Good intentions gone wrong or outdated I think.

I have seen a few spay/neuter programs around and will look into them. I also have heard of there being spay/neuter days at certain reserves. I should like to find out about that.

Anybody have some ideas on how to help the types of situation I described in my original post?

If there is a "cat hoared" found in one of the towns, from what I understand a vet gets paid a certain amount for each animal to put down or otherwise deal with them.

I don't want to come arcross that the idea I have is to be the cat gestapo (sp?) but to greatly reduse the number of UNWANTED litters born every year and escalates and inbreeds year after year.

The spay/neuter cost is absolutley a stumbling block for many many people. Having said that...if you choose not to fix animals, allow them to breed, then you need to be responsible to deal with the overpopulation that may result.

Some of you have enough predators etc to keep the numbers down and that is what I meant about how it used to be. That situation is no concern whatsoever and I agree that there is no reason (unless you have a lot of money to waste...) to have the cats fixed.

Unenfourcable, almost....but then again so is the cat number limit within the municipalities. Even if you have 20 cat that stay in the house and you neighbour knows it, they can do little unless someone that actually goes in the house and sees the situation and reports it. It is not very effective but it is in place and does help in some situations.

What is the answer? I do not know but would like some ideas on how to improve things. I will absolutely look into the spay/neuter programs as the cost is absolutely one of the concerns with most people.

Many people hate the idea of putting down "perfectly good" cats, but if there are people who will not take responsibility for their overpopulation then there needs to be a reduction some how or the problem will continue to escalate as the areas get more populated and developed and therefore fewer predator etc. A cycle that I would like to slow down so there are 100 cats that are unwanted and may need to be put down and not 1000. Numbers are obviously just for argument's sake.

I do not know the numbers of cats that are put down every year by vet but I do know that it used to be over a 1000 each year and that was a dozen years ago!

Please continue.....I need ideas of how to make positive change.

I agree, the SPCA's have definately got ridiculous. But there are Barn Cat programs out here.

Although I've never tried to adopt one, so who knows what they act like when you actually go there?

Have to say I am "not" a fan of SPCA's.

chicken crack wrote:Many people hate the idea of putting down "perfectly good" cats, but if there are people who will not take responsibility for their overpopulation then there needs to be a reduction some how or the problem will continue to escalate as the areas get more populated and developed and therefore fewer predator etc. A cycle that I would like to slow down so there are 100 cats that are unwanted and may need to be put down and not 1000. Numbers are obviously just for argument's sake.

I do not know the numbers of cats that are put down every year by vet but I do know that it used to be over a 1000 each year and that was a dozen years ago!

Please continue.....I need ideas of how to make positive change.

Many people can consciously differentiate between domesticated pets and people, however I don't really view them to differently. To me, the way to deal with the world's over-population isn't to blow up a few city blocks or breed infertility into people through vaccines of flu shots or control the number of babies, it's to look at the situation in a different light and look for a collective solution that doesn't result in the needless deaths due to human neglect and ignorance.

In the case of hoarders, this is, as Uno said, a mental health issue. The hoarding is a symptom of a problem, rather than the problem itself. Many of the animals in a hoarding situation need to be put down due to health reasons, rather than overpopulation issues.

To me, a local stray spay/neuter and tagging program would be farm more effective than a cull of cats. I believe some towns and cities have this in place. Strays can be trapped and brought to or picked up by shelters and humane societies. Their health is evaluated ie checked for FIV and other severely contagious transmutable diseases. These strays are collared and/or tagged with a local tracking system, spayed/neutered, possibly vaccinated and then released back to where they were found. They continue to keep down things like Mice, even helping to control things like pigeon populations in rural areas. They cannot breed, are less prone to marking and still continue to exist until their death later in life due to natural causes, predation, cars or otherwise.

I don't see this as a bad alternative. You could look out the window at the cat in your yard and see the specific collar and know that cat won't be breeding and contributing to the other problems. Overpopulation isn't why the cat craps in your garden or eats your mint plant, nature is why. Why do we manicure our yard with grass that's unfit to eat instead of allowing plantain, crab grass and dandelion to take over? We do it because we have some sort of internal societal obligation to be in control.


lady leghorn - The barn cat program in Regina 'requires you' to keep the cats in the barn, sheltered and away from predation at all times. They have a clause that states they can come visit your property to verify this is how things work. A barn cat means a yard cat who lives in the barn or outbuilding and is fed, IMHO, not a wild, indoor cat that's not safe to keep in the house so I put them out here instead.

I think there is still confusion about cats and terms....

A barn cat = lives in the barn, might be shy, but pretty reasonable and fed by owners of said barn.
Pet cat = comes in the house if it wants, loved and petted by owners, fed by owners.

Feral cat = NOT approachable, pettable, or lovable really. May or may not be fed by anyone but pretty self reliant.


Around here we have HORRIBLE feral cat problems. Thankfully there have been groups in the past few years that have teamed up with vets in order to help curb the problem. They hold fundraising events, and have vets that are willing to do spay/neuters for cheap. They live trap cats in known feral colonies, farmers fields, reservations, wherever there is a need. The cats are spayed or neutered, vaccinated once (feral colonies are disgusting places for feline transmissible diseases and viruses) tattoo'd and ear clipped (preferrably) and re-released back into the wild. This seems to appease the bleeding hearts of the world, and puts a limit to the number of cats in the area. I like it, I think it's a good way to - as a community - solve a community problem. I highly, highly endorse the ear clipping (just snipping off the tip of the ear under anesthetic) as I have caught feral cats here in our live trap, hauled them into the vet hissing and spitting (and releasing other bodily functions, gag) only to find out said cat is already spayed or neutered. It's really hard to see a tattoo when they are trying to eat your face, and have fuzzy ears.

The other side of the coin is, and I may be unpopular for saying so, the people who like to keep them around as 'strays', who will feed them, love them and pet them yet when it comes time to pay for any veterinary care they are "not their cat". Well, they kind of are. If you don't want them, take them to a rescue to be altered and rehomed. If you do want them, buck up! There are spay/neuter programs.

I also do get Coopslave's situation, where you have a queen who supplies your farm with cats that serve a purpose. It's always a crap shoot trying to go out and get a cat that will actually be useful in terms of mousing and hunting. I'd almost be willing to fly me a kitten from Coops' next litter, my barn cat is retiring and I'm not convinced that many of the pets around here know how to hunt mice or rats.

So, cats... they are the worst. I have a love/hate relationship with them. Working in a vet clinic, it's the worst. They are definitely society's "disposable furry pet", the goldfish of the fuzzy animal world, they seem to get "flushed" pretty frequently.