Vaccines for the small flock owner - opinions

appway wrote:Question on the ILT and other Vaccines that people are using
Say a person Bought Poultry from someone that does the vaccine or is at a show
will the vaccinated birds give say the ILT or Mareks or what ever the vaccines are that people are giving to the persons Chickens??
hope the question is understandable.
Joe

I don't know about other provinces but, I understand, in Nova Scotia the ILT vaccine that is used is the shedding kind so, yes, your healthy birds can pick up the disease from a vaccinated bird if that bird gets sick and starts to shed viruses. We had an outbreak of ILT several years ago after buying some adult birds (unvaccinated, in this case) that came down sick and spread it to our flock. In accordance to provincial regulation we had to report and cull all our birds immediately. A vet from the department of agriculture then questions you as to who you bought birds from and anyone you may have sold birds too recently, then tests those flocks and destroys any flock that has any positive results. The province then reimburses something like $5.oo per hen and 10.00 per rooster. Not much money for any special heritage birds, but that's what they do here.

We cannot buy vaccine to vaccinate our flocks ourselves but can apply for a vet to come to your farm and vaccinate. They only vaccinate once a year, in June, so mostly it is people who show birds who get their flocks vaccinated.

We have chosen not to vaccinate for the reason that we only buy day olds or hatch our own chicks and don't want to chance bringing the virus onto our property through shedding vaccine. So far, so good.

BINGO, but there's no prize, sorry. Finally I am understood, thank you Uno.
Appway, Klassychic, sorry I didn't mean to gloss over your questions, I thought someone else might give better explanation than I can. And please question and correct my response it may not be quite accurate.
Some diseases spread on dander the bird sheds. Some vaccines will treat a healthy bird so it doesn't catch the disease, BUT, that bird will then have the disease and spread the disease to other birds who were not vaccinated : this is called a shedding vaccine. A non shedding vaccine will not do this, in theory you should be able to mix n match treated and untreated birds but for other reasons I wouldn't advise it.
SO, YES, if you go and buy a bird vaccinated with shedding vaccine, put that bird with unvaccinated birds, most likely the unvaccinated birds contract the disease...and now you know the potential consequences of this...your birds ordered culled, your neighbors birds ordered culled, and the same type of destruction procedures in other areas of the county, province or country depending how far and wide you spread birds around.

NOW, on the other hand if you buy birds with non shedding vaccine, your Un vaccinated birds should not contract the disease. But again there may be other very good reasons to NOT mix n match vaccinated and unvaccinated birds, just cause they won't catch the disease in question does not mean it is safe, you are playing with delicate balances involving the immune systems.

There are many other issues to explore with vaccination too, and they need to be faced and discussed, uncomfortable or not.
Here is one: liability. If a vendor sells a shedding vaccine bird into an unvaccinated flock, is that vendor liable for the future loss of birds, maybe not but should they be?
If I vaccinate with non shedding vaccine, but my neighbor does not and contracts a virulent strain can I hold them liable for my birds that are ordered culled, since I have taken all reasonable precautions but they have not, why should I lose from their negligence?
(relax neighbor, this will not happen between us).

Just a couple scenarios, there are more, any thoughts?

Ah, now I see your point RR, I was a little unsure as to where you were going with this.
I too wonder about what would happen with a widespread cull and hold no illusions about vaccine administration "saving" me and my chickens from such a situation.
I choose to vaccinate for ILT because it is a bad disease that I believe is "out there" where I plan to take my birds to shows and sales.
I only use the non shedding form LT-IVAX which is administered by eye drop method at 4 and 8 weeks of age. I also do a yearly booster of my mature stock.
I do this only for the protection I believe it provides for my flock as a whole, for no other reason at all.

Just some points I believe about vaccine, correct me if I am wrong about some of these assumptions please:

I hope I am correct in thinking that most of the ILT vaccine available now is the of the nonshedding variety. The shedding one provided better protection by its very nature and was mostly used by industry? But was inherently more dangerous as it could shed the disease to other birds.

I believe with any vaccine you need to keep the birds you are vaccinating apart from any other unvaccinated birds at least until 4 weeks or so after they have finished their final boosters.
This should give their immune systems a chance to fully develop proper immunity.
I have wondered if during their "immune system" development period (which would be 8 weeks following their initial dose in ILT) if they would be "contagious" to other younger as yet unvaccinated stock and keep them seperate for that reason however I am led to believe that until 4-6 weeks, chicks cannot get some of these diseases.