Livestock Guardians

Well, now that I have real livestock to guard and have seen how tiny goat kids really are I'm giving serious thought to livestock guardians.

What do most people use? Dogs or Llamas?
What do you think the pros and cons of each are?

I have two dogs already (a golden retreiver and a border collie)

The most common predators here are coyotes and fox (although I have never seen a fox) and possibly other dogs.

I have a Maremma and he is amazing. Although Wikipedia shouldn't be considered the authority, I do like the description I see there. It seems accurate to me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maremma_Sheepdog He chases coyotes away from my fenceline, he goes for walks with me and is friendly with people, he is not aggressive with my birds or anyone, he eats the same food as my house dogs and he does not need any special housing, though I did provide it to him. He chose his spot.

My understanding of llamas, and this is just what I've heard so hopefully others will weigh in, is that they do not actually chase much, but because they're curious, they'll go and LOOK at anything new. So they won't attack someone marauding, but if you're home, you'll know from their behaviour that there's something going on that's not normal.

They need shearing, dogs need a bit of brushing. Llamas need hoofs and teeth trimmed, dogs need nails clipped if they don't do it naturally. That's about all I can think of.

My preference is always with the LGD. They do bark, and you have to live with that, but it's the sound of them doing their job and if it's feasible, it's worth it, in my opinion. I don't have close neighbours and when he's barking excessively, I speak to him and he stops, so it's only temporary irritation. I consider it a small price to pay.

We have both maremmas and llamas
The llamas would beat the heck out of a coyote and we have a guardian llame who tended a flock of sheep _ stood over newborn lambs until some one came and got them but the coyote pack got too big for a single llama.

Would take a pack of maremmas any time
But a single dog cant do much against a larger number of predators. For keeping cougars at bay at. Least 3 dogs

I have two Great Pyrs. I know this because it is past midnight and I am listening to them bark right now. There is a skunk out there, I can smell it. I fear the morning.

Schipperkesue wrote:I have two Great Pyrs. I know this because it is past midnight and I am listening to them bark right now. There is a skunk out there, I can smell it. I fear the morning.

So along with the duck and me, you now fear the morning , you are such an interesting woman!!

This is a most interesting post. I have seen Farmchiq's maremma and it is one big dog, so thick and full of fur, I don't think it would like to be inside the house. That to me makes the perfect guard dog. One that would much more prefer to be outside, that guards all day and night because of that. Smaller dogs, I would venture for surely, one should have several. But that maremma is a huge breed, can't believe it. She free ranges all her chickens and ducks and hasn't lost any to predation this year that I know of. I think anything big that lives outside only is a perfect one. Ours are all inside dogs, even though some are big (Daughter has 5, two big and three small and we have 3, one big and two small). I don't think they are very good guard dogs. I hear the coyotes very close at night, coming through the fields. My birds are locked up tight at night, so no worries about things getting in.

I remember back on the coast the neighbour that bordered our back 3 acres (had 5, but 2 were cultivated with home and gardens), she had two llamas. Lots of bush behind her place, lots of bears along that bear path. Those llamas would make the strangest noise and man, I could hear it all the way to my home, even on my porch. When I heard that screaming weird sound of the llamas, I knew that something wicked this way comes, usually it would be a bear, but coyotes too, but the bear...oh the bears...they were scarey. We wouldn't let the kids play in the ravine much during the summertime unless the big dogs were down there. My Sister had 6 kids, we had 4 (ours foster), so many times there was an abundance of kids playing in the deep and dark ravine, a magical world down there, with a zip line and a big ol' rope swing off a big leaf maple tree. Those kids needed protection and those big dogs, hers were Wiemerammer (spelling???), so they were excellent guard dogs too, ours is a rottwieller cross dalmation, so actually lots of big dog protection. I think the protector dog needs to be appropriate for what they are guarding for surely. Good topic. Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

It seems that while llamas do an adequate job, a dog is more likely to do better so far. There seems to be a good supply of them around here, but they are pups. How long before they are able to do their jobs well? Do they really not mind the fact that while my other two dogs are hanging out in the house or garage, they are sleeping alone in the cold? This bothers ME.

hard to beat a good lgd. maremma, pyr, komodor, caucasian, cao etc etc

DCChick, our maremmas really didn't start guarding until they were over a year and then so consistently. They need guidance to show them what to do and what not to do.
My belief is they really don't mature until about 3 or4 years of age.

If you can find someone needing to let go of an adult, I would do the adult and bring a pup along to learn.

We have six maremmas.

Them as puppies, living with the goats.




Lucy, hanging out with a llama




Four weeks old




Ivan, protecting his girls



Cathy

Cathyjk wrote:DCChick, our maremmas really didn't start guarding until they were over a year and then so consistently. They need guidance to show them what to do and what not to do.
My belief is they really don't mature until about 3 or4 years of age.

If you can find someone needing to let go of an adult, I would do the adult and bring a pup along to learn.

I susected they would need to really grow into the role. I think I saw and ad for an older one, but I'm worried that it would bother my free ranging birds if it's not use to them.

If you spend time researching your breed of choice, you'll see there are techniques to employ for that. I recently added a 3-year-old male Maremma to my farm and he'd never been around poulty before. The first time he saw my chickens he lunged at one and wound up with a mouthful of butt feathers! I didn't get mad at him, but I corrected him hard. After that I made sure I was with him any time he was near the birds out in the open. Lots of patting and calm talking let him know that they were to be allowed, not chased, etc. It's how he gets introduced to anyone new, even my young cat who has just started venturing outside with me.

Don't discount the intelligence of these dogs. If they've been raised properly and are socialized and healthy, they should listen and learn easily.

As I said, research it. You'll see lots of testimonials and training help.

My guardian dog is maramma + anatolian, pictured here. He spent his first 2 weeks kenneled at night with our goats and bonded with them, they even sleep in his dog house or him with them. He likes people and other dogs if they leave the livestock alone. I watched him chase coyotes out of the yard before he was 1 yr. If the chickens, ducks goats or geese made noise he is right there to chase away whatever it is. As well he keeps the moose and deer out of the hay. Our neighbors have had run ins with cougar, bear, coyotes, wolves, and fox and I have seen none of these although fox have got a few ducks. He is also one of my best friends. It seem that he just reads us and knows what needs protecting. I am afraid that if i get a second outside dog that their duties would be neglected. I had 2 llams but cougars got them. I guess the type of guardian animal used would depend on the livestock you have and your situation. I like my dog.

We use Llama's and a guardian dog.
The Llama stays with the sheep, was raised with them and bonded to them (this is important to do as not all Llama's will guard or stick with your goats/sheep).
The LGD protects the entire farmyard, and if something is wrong out in the field then he will go out, but most times it is just the Llama out with the sheep.
My FIL has 3 llamas and they have saved calves on more then one occation. With the females protecting the calf and the male striking out at the coyotes. It would take a lot for a llama to kill a coyote, but they sure bring attention to it in a hurry and then your dog can get out there and do the work.
I have 3 dogs, 1 sleeps inside, one is kenneled when we are not outside and then the LGD is free all the time. So don't feel bad that his/her buddies are inside sleeping at night, that is when your LGD does most of his work, so he will not mind being out there alone to do this. I find by 1 year they are well equiped to do their jobs but like Cathy said it does take some maturing for them to fully protect your animals.

I was thinking about having both today just like you Hidden with the llama actually in with the goats and the dog atrolling the yard. That way the llama could do the job itself until the dog is older and has learned the ropes. Anyone have a good guard llama for sale?

LIke the dogs, not every llama will guard and mostly if you have more than one, they will bond with each other and forget the other animals.

Reality, there are loads of llamas out there for free right now.
It's trying to find them!
Will send you an email if I hear of anyone looking to rid themselves of one.

Oh, cougars are the only natural predator for llamas. THey hate most dogs unless raised with them. Our llamas alarm call if any thing new comes near the yard and then the dogs go and find out what all the yelling is about.

Cathy

Thanks for keeping your eyes open for me The problem is I have no trailer - yet and so have to find something reasonably close to me.

And no cougars here

Hey i do have a llama you could try. He doesnt cae much for the dogs so it probably is a good indicator he wouldnt tolerate foreign guys in his field i dont know diamond city is