The True Livestock Guardian

YOU are the guardians of all the livestock you keep. That means knowing what you're animals require BEFORE you get them.

I get tired of seeing the results of people that get a few acres and think "oh we should get get horses or goats" etc.

This post isn't aimed at anyone in particular, its aimed at all of us. It is the result of me acquiring a horse from someone who did just that. He had 5 acres and thought it would be nice to have horses. He had nothing but mud for 8 months of the year. He didnt know a thing about horses, and although he treated them as best he thought, he was so far off the mark it wasnt funny. I've had this horse for over a year now, and between heavy supplements, flax, and other nutritious aids, I have ALMOST repaired the damage done to his hooves and the rest of his body by his lack of knowledge. OK, my farrier too. She deserves a ton of credit.

Our animals cannot tell us when they're lacking something in their diet. They can't tell us when their feet are sore. They can't go to a doctor on their own to find out they need some special care.

Take for instance where I live. On the island, our hay is selenium deficient. Completely unlike the mainland, we HAVE to supplement selenium in our horses diet here, or they become deficient as well. Or import hay. I talk to folks that live on the mainland regularly, and they think we'really crazy with all the supplements we feed our horses here.


It is up to us to do research and ask questions BEFORE we get an an animal,, so we can take care of it to the best of our ability.


*Edit - here's another example. After doing weeks of research, we got two young goats (wethers). They were living with geese and chickens, which resulted in them getting at their feed as well. . I knew this was bad, as they are susceptible to urinary stones if their diet isn't quite right. Sure enough, one of them ded up at the vet on a Friday night, and we had to put him down.
This could have been avoided had the lady done some research.

Amen to that.

Don't get me started....

Too true!

Apologies for the following rant, but you've struck onto one of my pet peeves Hillbilly!

I've seen several incidences of people deciding to bring their foaling mare to the vet after she's already been pushing for hours and hours ... "oh, we didn't know she was having trouble, we thought it was like a cow." This is not an excuse. It was their responsibility TO know what to expect. In this day of easily accessed online information, there are no excuses for something like this.

I realize I'm a little on the opposite end of the spectrum (I LOVE to research) but I cannot imagine attempting to care for any animal without first learning all I could to keep them happy and healthy in every situation. Heck, I researched chickens for nearly a year before I bought them despite the fact that I helped with my family's chickens as a little girl, and have been (only slightly obsessively ) researching dairy goats for years in anticipation of adding them to my menagerie someday in the future.

I have exactly no sympathy for those who say, "Oh, well, we didn't know!" when their lack of knowledge results in a very ill or dead animal.

I agree, but how does one get to know everything there is to know? It is one thing to do research and learn, but another to own the animals. Good intentions can become bad ideas in a hurry. Some people have the good fortunes of being raised on a farm...wonderful! You already become equipped with the knowledge to do well, but do you ever make mistakes? Of course, you do. I hear of the heartbreaking stories of great losses and questions and pleas for help from even those with experience, wisdom and knowledge.

As one of those people who thought it would be nice to have animals and having jumped into it with both feet, I feel I am learning quickly. I depend on the forums a little for the experience and wisdom of those of you who have it, but guess what? The verdict is out about how to raise any animal in particular. There are as many opinions of what is right and proper as there are members. So who is right? The old farmer who has done what has worked for generations or the brand new farmer who is learning by seat of his(her) pants from books and internet and trial and error? People do have to start somewhere.

So glad to know I'm not the only one who has rant attacks now and then!

Hillbilly, I must admit I am one of those people who got horses not knowing a damn thing about them. But being well aware of my own ignorance I had several sources of horse back-up and support lined up. Had 'people who knew' actually look over our proposed fencing plans BEFORE we built and tell us where we had wrong ideas and what needed to change, etc. We have not scrimped a cent on vet bills and feel very fortunate to have a vet who has provided us with LOTS of guidance.

Knowing that I didn't know made me darn sure to always have someone checking up on me and pointing out problems and solutions.

I didn't (and still don't) know everything about horses. But I know a lot more now than when I started! And I know enough to realize horses are probaly the MOST fragile, demanding and expensive of all the barnyard possibilities. GET MOTORBIKES! (good post, Hillbilly)

Edited to add: Fat Ewe, just saw your post and what you say is so true! There are as many opinions about horse raising and doctorin' as there are horse people. SOmetimes I think the people 'raised on the farm' are sometime victim to the old ways and being stuck in a rut even when new information proves thier ways obsolete. We were overwhelmed by the often conflicting information we got. But I gathered it all in anyway and then tried to decide where my gut told me the best sense lay. But you're right...judging what is good info from bad is not always straight forward.

I agree. Its one thing for people like Uno (and myself!) to aquire an animal not knowing a whole lot about it, but at least put the effort into aquiring said knowledge! My husband has an old friend from college who "loves" horses. Shes done terrible things to horses by "accident." She was riding a horse that was so cow-hocked its hocks were banging together every time it took a stepp, and couldnt figure out why it was bucking her off. Hubby pointed out the horse was sore. "Oh, no, he just walks funny." Told her not to put her arm between the bars on a stall to pet an unknown horse. Prevent a possible broken arm, ya know? She tells him she doesnt like to be around him because he is "ruining her (horse) fantasy." Loves Black Beauty and War Horse, hated the documentary on Buck Brannaman.

Thats why I love places like this, even if I dont respond to every post, its such a wealth of information on here!

Bite your tongue!

Where would the big chain pet shops be without the people who leap before looking? Out of business that where (sometimes I swear the bulk of their business must be selling the same people replacement fish and animals over and over)!

Swamp Hen wrote:I agree. Its one thing for people like Uno (and myself!) to aquire an animal not knowing a whole lot about it, but at least put the effort into aquiring said knowledge!

Absolutely! Everyone starts out a beginner, and having an experienced mentor and veterinarian that you are willing to turn to anytime you're unsure is part of responsible ownership - no matter how much experience you have.

Referring to my second example to do with the goat. She clearly jumped in blind, not knowing anything about the dietery requirements of wethers and caused the preventable death of this animal due to her lack of asking a large animal vet if of would be OK for her goats to eat chicken feed. I discovered this wasnt a good thing with the help of Google and a few different forums. We all make mistakes, and this is how we learn, but things like this could easily be prevented by spending some time researching the animal. A death by ignorance is completely unacceptable when its preventable.

The Fat Ewe is right. Many people new to an animal don't even know what they should ask. I also believe it is the responsibility of the seller to make sure the animal is properly cared for in its new home. I will use Schipperkes for an example. I have many inquiries for puppies. I always have long talks with prospective puppy buyers. I need to make sure they know that Schips will kill small animals, are not couch potatoes, will easily outthink most humans, will run away and not return no matter how much you call them, should not sleep on the bed until they are at least two years old, etc, etc.

Many people think a dog is a dog but that's simply not true and if I did not ensure the puppy was a good fit for the family not only would I not be doing my job as a breeder, but I would experience much heartache and lost time rehorming poorly matched dogs to inappropriate homes.

It doesn't matter that you don't know what to ask, as long as you ask something when you don't know.

I love the goats, but the veterinarians here know little about them, their care or nutritional requirements and do not seem to want to learn. I lost 2 goats because they were resistant to Ivermectin, unbeknownst to me. It was a goat forum from the USA that helped me with the goats and what the problem was. Those who run meat goats in the area treat their herds entirely differently than I do, since they are terminal. So without the internet to learn how to care for goats, the experienced and the veterinarians in this area were of little value to me. The wormer which I did order from the vet was suggested by the goat forum and the local vet had never heard of it.

And Sue, if i recall, there was a time on another forum when you were thinking about getting goats and you asked what you should know... maybe that was someone else though. Its been awhile.

Hillbilly wrote: And Sue, if i recall, there was a time on another forum when you were thinking about getting goats and you asked what you should know... maybe that was someone else though. Its been awhile.

It is true, I do research before getting an animal. I asked lots of questions about goats and got lots of information, but much of the info was contradictory. It was hard to sort through all that, let me tell you! However, not everyone asks the right questions or even knows what to ask. In my post I was speaking from a seller's point of view. If I sell a Schip to someone I make darned sure they know what they are getting into. I also make sure they know they can call me any time with any questions they have. It is hard to part with an animal that you have brought into this world, not knowing how they will be treated by their new owners. I provide as much help as possible, but not everyone is suited to Schip ownership. I have taken back several dogs from people who have bought, and have learned much from my mistaken placings.

But you did get some ideas from all the info you received. It gave you a starting point. I mentioned that out of context using you a a good example. I hope you don't mind. It just came to my memory after I saw your post and it was irrelevant to your reply.

In my opinion, as uno mentioned, I think horse people are the worst for contradictory information.
There is no learning it all. It never ends.

A good mentor is essential. It is one of those things I commit to when i sell an animal. I know I have leaned heavily on my mentors - those I bought my first animals from. I know when I have bought healthy, happy animals and want to keep them that way. Only then do I feel I can handle animals that are being "dumped" by people who didn't know how to treat them.

Hillbilly wrote: But you did get some ideas from all the info you received. It gave you a starting point. I mentioned that out of context using you a a good example. I hope you don't mind. It just came to my memory after I saw your post and it was irrelevant to your reply..

Well, I am happy to finally be a GOOD example for someone.

You are absolutely right, Hillbilly. I am also a critical thinker and very sceptical. I took that information, combined it with what I already knew, did some research, and never think I know everything. I am also observant and tenacious. If I were to see I had a problem I would dig and fight until I had an answer.

You are right, of course. People need to know what they are getting into with an animal they take responsibility for, but they don't. I think it is a matter of empathy. Not everyone has it.

Hillbilly wrote: YOU are the guardians of all the livestock you keep. That means knowing what your animals require BEFORE you get them.

It is up to us to do research and ask questions BEFORE we get an animal, so we can take care of it to the best of our ability.

YES!!! THANK YOU!!!!!

When it comes to buying any living creature, I research the heck out of anything before I actually bring it home. I read everything I can get my hands on - books and online. I talk to people who have had these animals, to get the inside information on the ins-and-outs of that species. I want to be sure a species/breed will be a good fit for our family, and vice versa. I've already met with the breeder I will be getting my white chanties from, and have seen her hens and roos. I joined this forum and I'm not getting chickens until June 2013!!!

I create spreadsheets with cost analysis and budgets for construction, accessories, feed etc. - including budgeting for construction overruns and emergency vet care. I draw to-scale blueprints and make supply lists. Then, because I am researching and preparing so far in advance, I can watch for sales on all of the building materials, and buy them at a lower cost. (True story: with my cottage restoration project, I had an original lighting budget of $3,000, and I was able to spend under $600 with some savvy shopping in advance!)

I make sure I have a safe, appropriate place to put the animal BEFORE I purchase it - and that this is COMPLETE before the animal comes home. This includes checking for protruding nails or wires - because taking the time to prevent an accident is cheaper and easier than dealing with a preventable emergency. If I didn't already possess mad carpentry skills and a set of power tools to turn any man green with envy, I'd hire someone to do all of this for me.

Yes, I am a PLANNER.

Call me crazy, but I think introducing a new pet/animal/species to your family/farm is akin to getting ready for a new baby. You prepare well in advance - reading massive books and joining baby websites, purchasing clothing, stock piling diapers and medical supplies. You buy special furniture to keep the baby safe while it sleeps and while it plays. You take a course from your local health nurse to learn about labour and care of your new baby. You make regular visits to the doctor before and after baby arrives. There are vaccination schedules, vitamins, guidelines of what to feed and when. You choose a pediatrician. You seek advice from people who have babies already. You make things - blankets, decor, clothing. You pack a hospital bag and keep it by the door. You line up babysitting for your existing children, and pet/animal care for your four legged residents. You make contingency plans and lists of emergency contacts. You baby-proof the house by removing potential hazards. Basically, you spend nine months obsessively preparing for the arrival of a new responsibility.

Shouldn't every animal owner do the same for their furred or feathered responsibilities?

If you're the type to impulse buy, try to restrict your impulse buying to non-living creatures.