Sick Chicks. Respiratory Illness?

Thought I was doing great this morning with no dead chicks.... until I went to let the older birds out.

Alas, Phyllis Diller is no more. At least we don't have to worry about culling her. (She's the chicken in my Avatar).

Not sure if MG killed her or if it was something else. I didn't see any wounds on her or anything.

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THanks for the pics to provide guidance and aid the rest of us in maybe identifying what our birds might have.

I have had only one chicken ever look like those, with swelled eyes, but mine also had discharge coming from nose, eyes, ears, corner of mouth. And stink! Holy Dinah you could smell that bird a mile away. Thus my call to local chicken guy who said likely Coryza, to remove bird as it would spread like wildfire through hen house. It never did. I had it once, in one bird and never again.

Re: different antibiotic use. In the LONG link I posted, there was some discussion about antibiotics that have been used but then removed from use as they pose threats to human health when they develop resistant super bugs. Since I do not use antibiotics in my flock, I didn't read that part too intently, but I know names were named. It might be worth checking over. Keep in mind many of those in that discussion are in the United States and there in lies some differences in drug availability.

Could you not ship anitbiotics on the bus? Bypass the mail altogether?

uno wrote:
Could you not ship anitbiotics on the bus? Bypass the mail altogether?

That is how we get any horse or cattle stuff we need for the ranch. Bus.

Sue, I've been thinking about your offer quite a bit today. Thank you so much. I mentioned it to my husband. We think that we will still cull if it comes back positive, because we don't know for sure at this point if it will work and if it's too late. Some of them it may save, but how are we to know which ones it's too late for? And then the ones that are still infected could reinfect the cured ones.

Hubby wants it done and over with. He wants to start fresh. I was thinking that if we did cull, that after a month or so, I could get some more chicks or eggs, but he want's to leave it until next year this time. He doesn't have much attachment to the chickens. I'm the caregiver of them, and have raised most of them since they were either eggs or chicks, so for me this is much harder.

I wish there was an easy solution to this. I just don't see one.

I'm going to mark Denagrad down in my little Red Book that I call Chickens. And when we get chicks again next year, I will use this as a preventative. I also need to mark down Tylan. They responded to it quite well and quickly.

But your offer was so kind, that I think they should be calling you Sweet Sue. I really appreciate your offer. Thank you.

Tara, Thanks for the info on the guinea fowl. Some sites don't list guinea fowl as carriers, and some do. Last night before bed, I unplugged the incubator. I will not hatch them out to only have to turn around and cull them. I'm done incubating this year. I'll ask Dr Cox about it though before I cull.

Uno, there is no smell that I can smell coming from my birds.

I'm at loss with what to do about my turkeys beaks where it's scabby looking. I see that they are starting to pick at it and are picking away the softer tissue between the sinuses. I thought about cutting up some medical tape and sticking it on, but then they might not be able to breath. Also they might be able to pick it off and eat the medical tape. I don't want to put Stop Peck on, because it's right by their nostrils and eyes. I don't have space to put 16 turkeys each in their own cage with their own heat light. I see that True North recommended culling, but I will wait to hear back from the test for that. I don't know if the original scabs are caused by the illness or pecking... If it's not one thing, it's another. lol

What a strange summer it will be with no Birds or Pigs besides my grumpy untrustworthy, cat... I can't really imagine it.

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Silky this will be the summer of taking more of your amazing photos to help heal yourself, a summer with your camera and the joy of bringing you beautiful work for all of us to enjoy. I am very sorry about Phyllis Diller, I always chuckled at the picture of her a real dear was she and one you won't soon forget and me neither.

Heather

Oh girl, I am so sad for you, we all are, what a thing to be dealing with. Not sure how you are going to deal either, with a summer with no chickens, really. Gads this is a sad thing. can't even hardly begin to wish you to have a great day, it sounds too weird, but in my heart, I know I need to tell you to try and find something happiness, as I said before, look to your children...they can always have a way to make us smile. Ya, like Viczoe said, you can fill your life with pictures and stories, the ones that you bring to us, that bring such pleasure. CynthiaM,

Have you thought of keeping your mature hens over the summer and just dispatching the youngsters?
If you have older hens that are not showing symptoms and still laying for you, keep them for the summer, for the fresh eggs, and in the fall have a clean out and get ready for a fresh start in the spring.
I am not sure how long you need before you can start again, I know it was mentioned here but there is a lot of stuff to go through!

Thanks, everyone.

Coopslave, I have thought of this, and tried to talk my husband about it, but he wasn't to cull them all at once (if it comes to that). I was wanting to keep some even if it was just for fresh eggs. I haven't had to buy eggs for almost 4 years now.

One of the things that he mentioned (I think to try and make me feel better) is that if we don't have chickens this summer that we will be able to go do things, like go to the Haida Gwaii (my most favorite place besides Home). I half suspect though that he will just be glad not to have to deal with chickens (not that he does much with them anyways). He's not a chicken man.

As far as the waiting period for MG, I think that it is only 3 weeks before I should be good to get chickens again.

I was thinking... For most diseases, what is the waiting period for the grounds/coops to be clear? Hubby wants to wait a year. (Not just because of this, but because he doesn't want to be packing feed up and down and across the cable car. He wants me to be able to go places like hunting with him. I usually stay at home to care for things, which I don't mind because I am a homebody.)

But my thoughts were if we do wait a year, wouldn't this give the diseases and any mites or lice time to die off? I dusted for mites and lice this spring when I noticed some lice on some birds,and have No Pest strips in the coops.

I will mention the keeping older hens to him again, but I doubt He will go for it.

Oh, and I ordered the Chicken Health Handbook. Hopefully in the future it will help me recognize illnesses so I can deal with them sooner.

Thanks, everyone.

Coopslave, I have thought of this, and tried to talk my husband about it, but he wants to cull them all at once (if it comes to that). I was wanting to keep some even if it was just for fresh eggs. I haven't had to buy eggs for almost 4 years now.

One of the things that he mentioned (I think to try and make me feel better) is that if we don't have chickens this summer that we will be able to go do things, like go to the Haida Gwaii (my most favorite place besides Home). I half suspect though that he will just be glad not to have to deal with chickens (not that he does much with them anyways). He's not a chicken man.

As far as the waiting period for MG, I think that it is only 3 weeks before I should be good to get chickens again.

I was thinking... For most diseases, what is the waiting period for the grounds/coops to be clear? Hubby wants to wait a year. (Not just because of this, but because he doesn't want to be packing feed up and down and across the cable car. He wants me to be able to go places like hunting with him. I usually stay at home to care for things, which I don't mind because I am a homebody.)

But my thoughts were if we do wait a year, wouldn't this give the diseases and any mites or lice time to die off? I dusted for mites and lice this spring when I noticed some lice on some birds,and have No Pest strips in the coops.

I will mention the keeping older hens to him again, but I doubt He will go for it.

Oh, and I ordered the Chicken Health Handbook. Hopefully in the future it will help me recognize illnesses so I can deal with them sooner.

It probably will mean the lice/mites will go away but then again I thinkt they are prevalent everywhere and on wild birds and will not mean that you are a nolice/mite zone forever, I think it is something people with birds have to live with and keep on top of yearround in order to keep them at a manageable level...
I kind of "get" your husband's take on things, i know somtimes my hubby wishes life would go back to where it was before "keeping live things" overtook my life!
BUT i think there is always a point where having a few to look after is wonderful and good for you and when having too many is just simply too much...hard to see where the line is sometimes when you just keep putting those eggs in the incubator...ooh the possibilities that is what I love and what GETS me sometimes if you know what i mean?

So, I thought I would just post a few more pictures. Just incase someday someone else comes along and is wondering what they are seeing.

These are pictures of one of my turkeys today. There are actually a couple that look simalar to this one. Some are just showing slight swelling in the sinuses. I culled some the other day that looked worse with selling on both sides of the face.

It's hard to get a picture that shows it as good as you can see it in person as the bird moves it's head and changes the angle. So I took a few from different angles.







In this picture, you can see how weepy the eyes are with bubbles in them.


Poor little thing. One of the ones I sent in for testing had a bit of swelling in the face. I wish this one looked like this yesterday, or I would have sent this one. The other one I sent was sneezing, coughing and quite gurgly sounding when it was breathing. It didn't have the facial swelling like in these pictures though.

It occurred to me just now when I was out there, that maybe I could clip the beak some and that would maybe help the pecking at the nostrils be so bad. I'm just scared of clipping too short.

Anyways, I just thought that I would post pictures so that it could be seen what I mean by the facial swelling in the turkeys. In the last 3 years of raising turkeys, this is the first I've seen of anything like this. It was rather shocking when I first seen it.

Great photos, very clear and shows what is happening really well.

Do you know when you might get your results?

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I know this ordeal has been heart-wrenching for you, SilkieBantam. But you can take some comfort in knowing that your skills with photography and your willingness to share these pictures are going to be incredibly valuable in helping others identify this disease in their own flock. I have never seen such clear photos, right down to the foam/bubbles in the eyes. Very well done.

Thanks.

I was thinking that even though this situation totally sucks, that maybe someone else can take something away from it, or maybe it would help them recognize whatever this turns out to be in their own flock. My husband mentioned the same thing last night. That since I posted it on open forum, maybe there's something someone else can learn through our experience. He says to tell them, if they see a chick or turkey with eyes that look like that, put it down right away. Don't try and see if it will get better with eye drops (that's what I first started trying). By the time I realized it was more then just sore eyes, all the other chicks had been in contact and it had spread. I think in the future I would rather put down the ill one for the good of the others.

It was hard to get the turkey to face me with the bad side showing, because it always wanted to look at me through it's good eye.

Wondering if anyone else has ever noticed this in their turkeys before, and how the birds fared for them?

If you don't see blood in the stool then I would use Neochlor which is two antibiotics combined. One is the same that is in Super booster which is a broad spectrum antibiotic and the other is specifically an airway antibiotic for airway infections. It is expensive but worth it if that is what is needed.

Thanks Dan! I've had them on Oxyterra-a. Some it helps, but some still get sick. I was wondering if I should give them some plain yogurt for pro-biotics. I thought I read somewhere that if a person is on Antibiotics, that they should have plain yogurt because Antibiotics kills the good bacteria in our bodies along with the bad bacteria. (or something along those lines...)

So would giving the plain yogurt be beneficial to them?

probiotics and yougurt good but no point taking it til after the antibiotic treatment cos the good ones will still get killed.
It is for after the course of treatment is over in order to kickstart the good bacteria in their stomachs again.

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I really like the probiotic powder I got that is specifically for birds, BIRD-POWDER made by Kaeco Group Inc.
you just sprinkle it on top of their feed once a week for growing birds, it smells really nice and I figure it can't hurt and could help give them the good bacteria they need to make the most of the feed I give them.
contains live lactic acid bacteria 22,000,000 cfu (whatever that is!)
Directions for expected environmental changes are once a day for 3 days before and after a stressful event like moving them or banding them.
Definitely not a CURE but part of good management program that will hopefully strengthen their gut...

silkiebantam wrote:Thanks Dan! I've had them on Oxyterra-a. Some it helps, but some still get sick. I was wondering if I should give them some plain yogurt for pro-biotics. I thought I read somewhere that if a person is on Antibiotics, that they should have plain yogurt because Antibiotics kills the good bacteria in our bodies along with the bad bacteria. (or something along those lines...)

So would giving the plain yogurt be beneficial to them?

My husband just got out of the hospital on tuesday for 2 different infections. One which is caused by the "good" bacteria being killed from antibiotics and allows the "bad" to take over....believe me anybody who has to go on any antibiotics should either eat all the yogurt they can stomach or take a probiotic during and after they finish their treatment. This was a direct recommedation from the infectious disease dr of the okanagan. Nobody wants to ever get this over growth of of bad bacteria. My poor hubby suffered so much for several days it was like the worst stomach flu imaginable time 1000. Plus he had a blood infection along with it.

Sorry I am off topic but still relevant I think.

Sorry one more thing - i have read bits a pieces of this thread but has no one mentioned the use of Baytril to treat? Its not labeled for use in poultry and the commercial industry would not use it due to cost but it would be available at any small animal vet hospital ( a modern one anyways).

Just a thought.

Thanks for the info on the pro-biotics. I was thinking about the powder this morning too. It might be good for someone else administering Antibiotic. I don't think I will do it this time though....

I just had a message about the birds I sent in. I was told that the postmortem has shown that it most likely mycoplasma and that the birds had classic presentation of sinusitis. They are just waiting on the tests pending to confirm it. I should hear back in a couple days to confirm it. It was surprising to already have a message on my machine when I got home this evening. They just received the birds yesterday. When I talked to the lady this morning to see if they arrived, she said that I could expect to hear back in a week to ten days. Maybe she let me know sooner because I mentioned that if it did come back as this I wanted to take care of it as soon as possible.

Fuzzylittlefriend, I'm sorry to hear your husband was so ill. Hope he feels better quickly.