Day Old chick walking on Elbows? HELP?

Hatched a chick today that walks on it's elbows.  It's not splayed.  It's like it just can't straighten it's legs to stand.  It's not clubbed.  Toes are not curled.  The feet are not turned out. The "elbow" joint seems a little larger than normal, swollen maybe?  I play with it's legs and I can straighten them, but s/he doesn't like it... like maybe it hurts.  

I have them on cloth, not newspaper or shavings. It's the only one like that and I didn't help it out.

Advice anyone?

Here is my harsh reply...I kill all chicks that are defective. I don't have the time to tape feet or go to great lengths to keep it alive, only to end up breeding it when it grows up and I have forgotten that it was defective. Then next spring I have more of the same.

We had one last year that had a similar problem, was knuckled over on the "wrist" joint. We tried splinting it, didnt work. Couldnt get the splint to stay on. But for some unknown reason the chick spontaneously straitened its foot out about a week after we messed around with splinting. Sue is right, probably best to do away with them, but that was our experience last year. Good luck!

I have had that once before. It did not improve with splinting, so I culled.

Im with Sue - if it possibly could go into the breeding herd - cull - dont need more of that next year!

I hear what you all are saying... but with us, culling is not the first option. We only have a small flock & I keep diligent notes, so it's not likely it will be a breeder next year, esp since it's an EE and not a purebred. I guess I will try to tape it and hope for the best.

Oh and when it was hatching, s/he seemed to be tangled in the "umbilical cord" thingie. I think it may be an injury... maybe try some arnica in the water?

No one thinks it's a deficiency or anything?

Culling is not an option (really). More of an inevitability.

I've tried helping chicks with leg problems. I don't think I've even succeeded once. At that age, they are growing so fast that their body can't heal fast enough to catch up. In my case, they always slowly went downhill until I had to cull them anyway. Live and learn.

Fowler wrote:Culling is not an option (really).  More of an inevitability.

I've tried helping chicks with leg problems.  I don't think I've even succeeded once.  At that age, they are growing so fast that their body can't heal fast enough to catch up.  In my case, they always slowly went downhill until I had to cull them anyway.  Live and learn.

Yep. If it's a small hatch and it's one of your first hatches, it is tempting to try to "fix" a chick. But in many cases, it's just prolonging pain and discomfort for the chick. It is kinder to cull, even if it's uncomfortable for the person having to do the culling.

I would give it no more than 24 hours to show improvement. If splints aren't helping at that point, and it's not a chick worth big bucks, I would cull.

Sadly , culling is the only option!!

Reality is harsh.....
I will help if you are in the Vernon area, if you need.

authenticfarm wrote:

Fowler wrote:Culling is not an option (really).  More of an inevitability.

I've tried helping chicks with leg problems.  I don't think I've even succeeded once.  At that age, they are growing so fast that their body can't heal fast enough to catch up.  In my case, they always slowly went downhill until I had to cull them anyway.  Live and learn.

Yep. If it's a small hatch and it's one of your first hatches, it is tempting to try to "fix" a chick. But in many cases, it's just prolonging pain and discomfort for the chick. It is kinder to cull, even if it's uncomfortable for the person having to do the culling.

I would give it no more than 24 hours to show improvement. If splints aren't helping at that point, and it's not a chick worth big bucks, I would cull.

Yes, it's a small hatch, but no, it's not my first; we've done several. It is, however, my first hatch with these particular roosters. A bit disappointing, as I had hoped to breed them with my marans hens soon. (They are marans roo's; the hens are EE's that I've used before with no problems.)

Oh geeze, Beep, if you haven't already, please cull that chick, the outcome will inevitably be that way and the longer the chick is around, the more attached one gets. You want to get into some breeding, please take the road that is necessary to find it easier to not keep the ones that are not right. I don't care what anyone will say, against or for, but one should always strive to have good health, that is physical health too, weakness of any sort can and will bring in undesirable in your birds. It is tough love, my dear, but you must exhibit this. I know this is particularly hard on your Daughter, but she too must realize, as nature also dictates -- only the strong survive, and that is the way it should be period. Before you decide that the roosters are probably culprits, don't. More than likely it was something to do with the incubation, only one indicates that to me, and with no priors with the hens, don't think it is genetic. Don't let that stop your breeding programs with the Marans, I wouldn't. If there was lots, then, yes, question the passing on of something not good. Tough love. Tough love. Brings strong flocks. Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

CynthiaM wrote:Oh geeze, Beep, if you haven't already, please cull that chick, the outcome will inevitably be that way and the longer the chick is around, the more attached one gets.  You want to get into some breeding, please take the road that is necessary to find it easier to not keep the ones that are not right.  I don't care what anyone will say, against or for, but one should always strive to have good health, that is physical health too, weakness of any sort can and will bring in undesirable in your birds.  It is tough love, my dear, but you must exhibit this.  I know this is particularly hard on your Daughter, but she too must realize, as nature also dictates -- only the strong survive, and that is the way it should be period.  Before you decide that the roosters are probably culprits, don't.  More than likely it was something to do with the incubation, only one indicates that to me, and with no priors with the hens, don't think it is genetic.  Don't let that stop your breeding programs with the Marans, I wouldn't.  If there was lots, then, yes, question the passing on of something not good.  Tough love.  Tough love.  Brings strong flocks.  Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

Well, I said "1" but then I had 2 late hatchers and both seem a little gimpy in 1 leg. I'm hoping they will stretch out, like they were in the shell too long, but I dunno. It's obvious that the marans boys are the dads as the gimpy chicks all have feathered feet; my hens are ameraucanaX's. Ya, I wouldn't worry too much if it was only 1, but 3? Out of 18? Hmmm.

Ok, wrapped up in a nutshell, the key words "late hatchers" . I have always, and I mean always, found that chicks that are late hatchers, by this I mean like over 1 day past the day the majority hatch, even if they get out on their own, often do not live. they seems to always be smaller, do not grow as well and by day 3 or 4 I have to cull them anyways. It breaks my heart. When I hatch anything hatched after day 3 is culled, or would not have had a chance at life anyways, because on that third day, the remaining eggs are removed. Late hatchers are late for a good reason. Either they are weak, they have issues in the shell, or as you said, being in a crunched up position past the amount of time that they should not be in the shell, screws up the legs. If you had said late hatcher in the beginning, that to me, would have immediately put my mind at rest. My mind is set. Others may disagree with what I say, I don't care. There is a reason why some chicks don't get out of the shell after the designated 21-22 days in there. Late hatchers are late for a good reason, oh did I mention that? Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

I would worry about the rooster too. With the Houdans I have had my share if leg issues and it didn't matter, early or late hatches. But if you say two of this roo's chicks have leg issues I would be watching him very carefully as well.

Beep, Know we all sound harsh. Take it from a kind heart. I have tried so many times to help a chick that was either splayed or knuckled over. I have had many going through with my Houdans. I have never been successful correcting the problem.

You can try. I would suggest that give it a week tops. But don't go beyond that. The longer you try, it will get worse for the chick. It will also be harder on your heart having to put it down.

toybarons wrote:Beep, Know we all sound harsh. Take it from a kind heart. I have tried so many times to help a chick that was either splayed or knuckled over. I have had many going through with my Houdans. I have never been successful correcting the problem.

You can try. I would suggest that give it a week tops. But don't go beyond that. The longer you try, it will get worse for the chick. It will also be harder on your heart having to put it down.

Indeed! I am not judgmental on the issue. Just trying to let you learn from my own past mistakes.

Oh, totally. I realize that you're all being realistic and not harsh or cold hearted. If I can help an animal, I will, but truly, I don't have time for birds who are "special needs". If these chicks had been hatched by a broody, she probably would have let them die. And of course, I don't want to accidentally use their eggs for hatching later on!
I culled the 1 really bad one -- which wasn't a late hatch, BTW. The other 2 (the late hatchers) are not improving. "A week" is on my radar, but honestly, I am not sure I want to let it go that far.

Next question: what is your method of choice in culling a small chick?

I hold the chick in my hand and bring the back of the head swiftly and with great force three times quickly on a hard corner. Breaks the neck and stuns them at the same time.

Scissors.

authenticfarm wrote:Scissors.

Is there much blood? I am kind of a sissy about blood.

Schipperkesue wrote:I hold the chick in my hand and bring the back of the head swiftly and with great force three times quickly on a hard corner.  Breaks the neck and stuns them at the same time.

I do this one.  When my arm is swinging, it's committed.  No time for second thoughts.

Schipperkesue wrote:

authenticfarm wrote:Scissors.

Is there much blood?  I am kind of a sissy about blood.

No blood Sue. I have a pair of poultry sheers that has a knotch in it. I just put the neck through there and take a deep breath and squeeze. There is no head coming off. No blood. The chick flaps and that's about it. I'm still am learning to do it.

As Sue knows, I am too much of a kind heart when it comes to having to do the deed. However, over the years, I have got better at having to do it. I just had a hatch of Houdans yesterday and I had to put down one that was walking on its knuckles.

All part of the responsibility of keeping poultry   

Schipperkesue wrote:

authenticfarm wrote:Scissors.

Is there much blood?  I am kind of a sissy about blood.

Some, but I like to be sure that the deed is done. I just do it inside a couple of plastic grocery bags so the mess doesn’t go anywhere.

Wow. You guys are amazing. I'm such a wuss when it comes to babies... though I can slaughter chickens and turkeys for dinner, no prob. But babies? Yep. I'm a wuss.