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Light bulb rage

+7
authenticfarm
Ruffledfeathers
Schipperkesue
Buff
Sweetened
Fowler
uno
11 posters

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26Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:38 am

auntieevil

auntieevil
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Full Time Member

Ontario is one of the provinces that creates much of its electricity from Niagara Falls, thus the term hydro is used when most others use electric to describe their bill.
Since Hydro-electric power is one of the cleanest ways to create electricity, one should not point a finger at those people who then use it to heat their homes. In other places though, where coal, etc is used to produce the electricity, point away!
Electric heat is 100 percent efficient, so 1 KW of power creates 1 KW of heat. Wood heat varies from the very inefficient fireplace (35%) efficient to the super energy efficient new wood stoves and ceramic heaters of up to 90%. The average is 65% for wood heat. Wood doctors (outdoor boilers) are a staggering 43% efficient. Just terrible!
Oil averages around 83% for a furnace or boiler with flame retention head. Propane/NG is descent at up to 90%.
The best by far are heat pumps, which do not create heat, but instead move it. Ground-sourced ones can be over 300% efficient, and our little mini-split, at optimal outdoor temps, is around 208% efficient. Think giant refrigerator.
Uno hit the nail on the head though, all of us should be living in passive homes, particularly in Canada, where much of the carbon issues are created by heating our homes. Double 2X4 construction with blown in cellulose, thus eliminating thermal bridging, or the use of foam on the interior wall would go a long way to keeping in the heat. If you don't lose it, you don't need it -bottom line. Having south facing windows with a heat sink can save 75% of a homes heating needs. While we are at it, why do we need a 5000 sf home for 2 people? Thus concludes my rant of the day!
Sorry to hijack your thread, it is just my job deals with the energy evaluation of homes! It is also something I am passionate about -can you tell?

27Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:18 am

Ruffledfeathers

Ruffledfeathers
Golden Member
Golden Member

Auntieevil you posted something that made me smile and I quote" why do we need a 5000sf home for 2 people?" I have been asking this forever. I have inlaws that have done this. Drives me around the bend. There's only 2 of you. Get a smaller house you don't even have kids.

Anyways nice points on the EE. I am going to add that even though wood heat isn't efficient I find it a "whole" heat. We have electric back-ups and I have lived in homes with all of the above mentioned. I think it becomes a personal choice.

28Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:10 am

Schipperkesue

Schipperkesue
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Ontario Electricity Source-

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Very cool site- wonder if there is a similar thing for other provinces. When I looked at the graph it was showing 50% electricity from nuclear power, 28% from gas, 20% from Hydro. Only 1% from coal. The area I visited this Christmas is almost exclusively powered by nuclear plants.

I have to laugh about those new clean electric cars. Not in Alberta. In Alberta you would probably be driving a coal burning car!

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29Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:13 am

Fowler

Fowler
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Golden Member

Our recent renos took away our wood stove. Definitely in the plans to get an insert set into the fireplace. Why was everyone installing fireplaces in the 70's anyway? Ours was so little used that the liner had fallen in (insert guys can deal with that). I can remember when my parents had a fireplace put in and they've used it a handful of times over the years. It's beautiful, just not used.

30Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Hanging Halogen Infrared Brooding Lamp Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:20 am

bcboy

bcboy
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Hanging Halogen Infrared Brooding Lamp.


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Do you think this 500 watt Radiant Brooder heater will use less electricity that a 175 or 250 watt bulb?
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31Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:30 am

Sweetened

Sweetened
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Because I'm a character of controversy, I must say, nuclear power is ridiculous to me. There's a lot of supporters for it, but I need only look at the Fukishima mess to say, the possibility of that alone, whether small or otherwise, should make Nuclear energy illegal.

Consider your post: Jacked Very Happy

http://steadfastfarm.wordpress.com/

32Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:22 am

Fowler

Fowler
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Golden Member

Sweetened wrote:Because I'm a character of controversy, I must say, nuclear power is ridiculous to me.  There's a lot of supporters for it, but I need only look at the Fukishima mess to say, the possibility of that alone, whether small or otherwise, should make Nuclear energy illegal.

Consider your post: Jacked Very Happy

Now you're just being ludicrous. Everyone knows that the incandescent bulb is by far the bigger threat. That's why our governments are protecting us from them.

This is why they never created an incandescent bulb bomb. The fallout would be so horrible that one can't even imagine.

33Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:32 am

bcboy

bcboy
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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] <---starts at 5:05

http://www.grizzlycurb.ca

34Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:33 am

Sweetened

Sweetened
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Full Time Member

Fowler wrote:Now you're just being ludicrous.  Everyone knows that the incandescent bulb is by far the bigger threat.  That's why our governments are protecting us from them.  
This is why they never created an incandescent bulb bomb.  The fallout would be so horrible that one can't even imagine.

Fowler, you are so correct.  I never thought about it like that.  Radiation has changed the world in remarkable ways, stirred incredible advances in health science, worked miracles on peoples skin, eliminated brain cells, cleared massive forests of pesky weeds, removed the overpopulation of fish problem from the ocean, and created freaks for road shows.  That damnable incandescent bulb has done absolutely nothing but waste 60 or 100 watts of my life on a daily basis.  I mean, look how dangerous they can be!

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35Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:50 am

auntieevil

auntieevil
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Thanks Sue, I didn't know that. As a kid, we were told most of our electricity was from Niagara Falls. Maybe I am just really getting so old, the increase in population outgrew the falls ability to provide for us. Maybe they were just lying to us  affraid 
There really is little that warms like wood, especially during a blackout! We kept our old beater wood stove for just those occasions...
Would a little ceramic heater work for chicks?

36Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:53 am

Sweetened

Sweetened
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I agree about the wood. I think wood warms us in a primal way as well. That's the granola talk happening.

http://steadfastfarm.wordpress.com/

37Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:11 am

Buff

Buff
Active Member
Active Member

Sweetened wrote:Because I'm a character of controversy, I must say, nuclear power is ridiculous to me.  There's a lot of supporters for it, but I need only look at the Fukishima mess to say, the possibility of that alone, whether small or otherwise, should make Nuclear energy illegal.

Consider your post: Jacked Very Happy
Here's a little article for ya
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38Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:16 am

Fowler

Fowler
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39Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:28 am

Sweetened

Sweetened
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Buff wrote:Here's a little article for ya
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A friend sent me that article a few days ago as they know how passionate I am about these things.  I don't want to call myself an environmentalist, I'm not.  I kill animals, I believe in hunting, I'm pro the use of furs, I rip plants out of the ground, believe in the use of lumber and so on.  But I'm a person who believes the planet is a living organism, and that it's our job to not kill it.  Nuclear power, though it offers a solution, offers so many other problems.  What do you do with the radioactive waste and biproducts?  What happens if a Nuclear plant melts down?  What if it happens near a water source?  How long to restore that land?  CAN it be restored?  How do you pull radiation out of the ocean?  The half-life on some of the byproduct is hundreds and thousands and tens of thousands of years.  The sheer potential for impact is so great that I don't think turning on every single incandescent bulb ever made at once could even SCRAPE the surface of damage and watt-sucking that Nuclear fallout does.  Not to mention, how much energy goes into cleanup.

I recently read something from David Suzuki who says within 3 years, the radiation being detected in Alaska will reach cold war levels and that, if that other rod is exposed at Fukishima, the entire west coast of North America must be evacuated or MILLIONS will die.

Incandescent bulbs are the absolute least of our worries.

http://steadfastfarm.wordpress.com/

40Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:34 am

Buff

Buff
Active Member
Active Member

BAHAHAHAHA Fowler that funny! 

I'm with you Sweetend it is very scary and seems like they are treating it like a little problem and trying to blow it off. Very very sad

41Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:41 am

Sweetened

Sweetened
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Buff wrote:BAHAHAHAHA Fowler that funny! 

I'm with you Sweetend it is very scary and seems like they are treating it like a little problem and trying to blow it off. Very very sad

It's all about appearances and government funding. Think about it: Incandescent bulbs send, what, lets be big here and say 100 people a month to hospital in Canada. Some kid touches a hot one and burns themselves, one explodes and cuts someone. It's a band-aid operation, maybe a couple stitches and anti-biotics. If hundreds of thousands to millions of people are effected by radiation, this is a medical cash flow and a control situation. Martial law would be instated, quarantine zones, ground zero locations. Fear is embedded, people will take ANYTHING to 'keep themselves safe'. Biotech companies will magically come out with GM goods that handle radiation zones so they can still be grown, never mind the implications of consuming goods, GM or not, grown on radiated ground.

I might be a nut job, but guess who people are phoning if something happens -- that's right, me. I'm not afraid of nuclear war, I believe there is intervention in place to prevent another nuclear bomb ever being used on a human-populated area, but I'm afraid of nuclear stupidity. There is NOT a place for it in today's world. When Brazil is releasing, for free, energy multipliers that can turn 1500 watts of electricity into 220 AMP SERVICE FOR YOUR HOME, Nuclear is a dead technology.

http://steadfastfarm.wordpress.com/

42Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:33 am

uno

uno
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Auntie Evil, I reads somewhere some 'heat' results that differ from yours, although not much. My reading said that wood ranks #1 in the heat provision. That a piece of wood, burning, gives up 100% of its heat capacity. It's the appliance used and how well it works that determines how much of that 100% is captured and returned to the home in the form of heat, that varies.

Natural gas, propane, oil all ranked lower than wood. According to the article I read (I think it was in a Fine Home Building magazine) all those three do NOT release 100% of their heat potential when burned.

We heat with a wood FURNACE in the basement. An ancient behemoth that makes people squeak and cringe when they behold it. Massive plenum and ductwork snake out. As a result of wood heat my carpet has black marks by every vent hole, I have spiders and cobwebs that Guinness should be alerted to, wasps randomly fly through the house in January and February, I can hear chewing sounds in the wood room, we own at least 7 wood splitting axes and mauls and each of us has our favorite, different ones for different jobs. Most of our summer weekends are given over the unending task of GETTING FIREWOOD and instead of HUb looking at lovely women, he's always casing out random dead trees he notices as we drive along country roads. He gets VERY excited when one drops over on its own! I cannot walk to a wall and flick a little switch to provide heat. No, I must go to the basement, dig around for some kindling, reach into the belly of the beast, prop kindling, and accelerant (we use diesel soaked shavings) in a precisely arranged pile, add wood, light, slam door so house does not fill with smoke. This takes TIME. Then there is the issue of chimney maintenance. There is no EASY way to heat with wood. Wood is not heat. Wood is a commitment to a lifestyle. A commitment of time and personal energy. BUT....when we had a stretch of -17 here (yeah, I hear you laughing) I wore the same footwear I have on right now. Bare feet. I served Christmas dinner in bare feet.

AUntie Evil I also have an issue with heat pumps. Several people around here have geothermal, but every one of them has to have a secondary heat source since after a certain temp, geothermal DOES NOT provide enough heat to keep the house warm. I refuse to put in a heat system that I know to be inadequate even as I pay through the nose to install it. That is, to me, just stupid (although geothermal here is used for cooling as well, because it also gets stupid hot).

What am I blabbing about? Oh...damn those light bulbs!

43Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:16 pm

auntieevil

auntieevil
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uno wrote:Auntie Evil, I reads somewhere some 'heat' results that differ from yours, although not much. My reading said that wood ranks #1 in the heat provision. That a piece of wood, burning, gives up 100% of its heat capacity. It's the appliance used and how well it works that determines how much of that 100% is captured and returned to the home in the form of heat, that varies.

AUntie Evil I also have an issue with heat pumps. Several people around here have geothermal, but every one of them has to have a secondary heat source since after a certain temp, geothermal DOES NOT provide enough heat to keep the house warm. I refuse to put in a heat system that I know to be inadequate even as I pay through the nose to install it. That is, to me, just stupid (although geothermal here is used for cooling as well, because it also gets stupid hot).

What am I blabbing about? Oh...damn those light bulbs!
Yes, wood heat is only as good as the appliance in which it is burned. Same with NG, propane and oil.
Don't get me wrong, wood is one of the best heating sources, provided we use efficient burners, and reduce emissions. If it is going up the chimney, it isn't heating your home. Plus if the fire is pulling cold outside air through the house, rather than through an outside air intake directly to the unit, the overall effect can cause the house to cool. That is one of the issues with old style fireplaces.
Of course, cutting, hauling, bucking, stacking, hauling, re-stacking, carrying and adding wood to a wood burning appliance warms us a lot too -lol
Loved the saying: some men build big fires and stay warm collecting wood, wise men build small fires and sit close...
Generally a geothermal system, when correctly sized (this is extremely important) only has a backup in case the unit breaks down. When the system is undersized, it is a big waste of money.
Since the ground and water remain constant temperatures, provided enough loops have been installed, or the water source is available as water, the geothermal will operate in any temperature.
An air-sourced heat pump definitely needs a backup, since the outside air varies so radically in temperature. Ours functions well to negative 15 and some go as low as negative 25, but the efficiency does drop as the outside temperature gets closer to the minimum. If the ASHP is installed incorrectly, such as the inside and outside units are too close together or too far apart, then the efficiency drops as well.
An advantage to the ASHP in mini-split form is the low cost. It is very clean to operate and does not make heat, except for a small amount operating the fan and compressor.
See, I can ramble too -lol

44Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:18 pm

bcboy

bcboy
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Sweetened wrote:

I recently read something from David Suzuki who says within 3 years, the radiation being detected in Alaska will reach cold war levels and that, if that other rod is exposed at Fukishima, the entire west coast of North America must be evacuated or MILLIONS will die.

Incandescent bulbs are the absolute least of our worries.



Last edited by bcboy on Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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45Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:31 pm

Fowler

Fowler
Golden Member
Golden Member

I see that some have found that CFL's and LED's give off harmful rays (UVC and UVA). I guess when people are getting cancer in a few years, they can blame the bulbs (but ssshhh, Fukushima is still fine).

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46Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:00 pm

Buff

Buff
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Good clips bcboy it's jus crazy stuff can't believe the Japanese government.

47Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:17 pm

Sweetened

Sweetened
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Full Time Member

Can't watch anymore. So worried about it as is, don't need more to worry about. I just have to hope we can make it through unradiated, and that I can restore the land and my animals around me.

http://steadfastfarm.wordpress.com/

48Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:01 pm

Schipperkesue

Schipperkesue
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Uno...

Burning wood and other biological materials for energy emits as much or more pollution than burning fossil fuels, including coal.

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49Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:05 pm

Sweetened

Sweetened
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Full Time Member

Schipperkesue wrote:Uno...

Burning wood and other biological materials for energy emits as much or more pollution than burning fossil fuels, including coal.

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Imho, the difference between the use of fossil fuels and that of biological matter is sustainability. Wood is a recreatable resource -- fossil fuels are not.

Biomass Innovation wrote:Fossil fuel combustion takes
carbon that was locked away
underground (as crude oil, gas,
or coal) and transfers that carbon
to the atmosphere as new CO2
.
When wood is burned, on the
other hand, it recycles carbon that
was already in the natural carbon
cycle, which is recaptured through
sustainable forest growth.

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50Light bulb rage - Page 2 Empty Re: Light bulb rage Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:55 pm

Guest


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Schipperkesue wrote:Uno...

Burning wood and other biological materials for energy emits as much or more pollution than burning fossil fuels, including coal.

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I have to say it ! .............wood burning has been here longer then mankind itself , and the smoke has always been drifting through the air and in large volumes based on historical forest fires, volcanos etc . The day will come when they will have to admit that the use of any fossil fuel was a huge mistake , wood was almost meant to be burned , fossil fuels ? , yes I realize I drive a fossil gas guzzling vehicle that unfortunately  the world has devised and is sticking with even though there have been electric cars since the 60's and yet the people who run the government ( and it's not our elected officials as so many think ) will not allow there production due to the danger of them loosing all that revenue and control , and the population explosion is directly related to the introduction of fossil fuel !. I look at fossil fuel as the blood of this world ......it's down there for a reason , and should stay down there .Imagine tapping into your own blood vein and slowly everyday taking some out ............sooner or later you will begin to notice the effects  as we are now starting to see .Mankind had made some remarkable inventions which have helped out humanity , but we have made far more that in the end will destroy us , The original inventions in a lot of cases were almost harmless , only to be ""made better "" in the end .I like the old light bulbs , better yet candles as light if needed , but that wouldn't be realistic now would it ? When you want to sell something and although there might be side effects to it , you lie .........and make believers of skeptic's , numbers can be changed and get done to sell something's all the time , when I hear that wood smoke is just as harmful as say natural gas emissions ...........well I'm not a believer yet ! , I say this not to offend anyone  we all can think what we want , but as any topic ........there are always two sides ? ..............my thoughts only ..PD

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