Encouraging Heritage Breeders

Bravo! I agree with all that.

Authentic is correct, one does need to become bully proof. But I add one condition, and this may be because I am much older and have lived for several centuries more than Authentic...it is a very small step from self congratulatory confidence into bullying. The belief that since YOU overcame non-confidence, everyone else should be in step with your personal development, sets you up to be the bully. For those fortunate enough to be as secure and confident as Authentic, the responsibility to make sure you never cross that line into self assured bossiness, is extreme. The better off you are in being bully proof, the more danger you are in of becoming a bully. Vigilance against one's own ego is critical.

What Serjay said is also true and I think it comes down to truth in advertising. I think one should NOT expect to buy someone else's perfected birds and call yourself a poultry fancier and breeder. If you buy and re-sell someone else's work, you are just the middle man. Or in street terms, a pimp.

But if you present your birds for sale with the explanation "The SOP calls for two black eyes, one on each side of the head, but I don't like that look so my birds have been bred to have one purple eye, right in the middle of their forehead" Now THAT is truthful. State what you were aiming for, state that it differs from the club rule book and OWN your individual creations. SO Serjay is right, one should not sell knock- offs to people who are looking for the real deal.

But there is nothing from stopping anyone from taking the mainstream bird and tweaking it and customizing it and making it their own, SOP be damned. Just label it as such. I think it can be done! Once upon a time frozen grapes were garbage, now they're ice wine. It's all in the marketing! But as Serjay said, honesty lets everyone know if you're colouring inside or outside the lines, and buyers deserve that transparency from sellers.

I agree with you SerJay - but a lot of people these days don't want to put in the WORK part of it.

For myself, I don't need to buy anyone's already award-winning birds, but I also don't want to have to completely reinvent the wheel. I don't want to have to take a square block and try to turn it into a circle. If I could get something that is octagonal or maybe oval shaped, I would be happy. Something closer to being wheel-shaped. (If someone WANTS to sell me a perfect bird, that would be lovely and I will pay them $$$ in appreciation of their dedication and hard work, but I don't demand or expect that.) I am willing to work towards that perfect wheel-shape, even if it takes me a bunch of years to shave off the edges.

I sometimes wonder, too, how many people don't *know* that they are selling non-standard birds? I am slowly beginning to be able to separate the crap from the gold, because I WANT to have the ability to recognize that in my own birds, which, in turn, will allow me to be completely honest with anyone I sell to in the distant future. I just ordered a copy of the SOP and a bunch of genetics books because I am bleedin' serious about having quality birds, and the first step to that is being able to separate the wheat from the chaff. Or the breeding birds from the delicious-tasting ones.

The sellers whom I want to buy from the most are the ones with the super-honest ads ...

"These hens will make great layers, but I do not consider them to be breeding-quality."

"This rooster does not conform to the SOP, but he is a terrific guardian and is gentle with chicks."

"These birds are culls from my exhibition lines, and I don't recommend they be used for breeding."

"This hen is hell on wheels and will peck the crap out of you, but she is a great broody."

"This rooster is ugly as sin and does not conform to any discernible breed type, but he's really friendly and can be carried around by small children and perhaps ridden by marauding bands of garden gnomes."


I think, too, what some people view as rudeness, other people would see as constructive criticism. It depends how you interpret the words, and if you take them in the spirit in which they were intended.

uno wrote:Authentic is correct, one does need to become bully proof. But I add one condition, and this may be because I am much older and have lived for several centuries more than Authentic...it is a very small step from self congratulatory confidence into bullying. The belief that since YOU overcame non-confidence, everyone else should be in step with your personal development, sets you up to be the bully. For those fortunate enough to be as secure and confident as Authentic, the responsibility to make sure you never cross that line into self assured bossiness, is extreme. The better off you are in being bully proof, the more danger you are in of becoming a bully. Vigilance against one's own ego is critical.

I recognize that trait in myself and am vigilant against it. (Self-awareness FTW!)

Also, you are not that old. Or I am not that young. A little of both, probably.

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I feel like this topic has gone off in all sorts of directions which is to be expected.  But for a moment I'm touching back on the original topic - Encouraging Heritiage Breeders.
I think what this really comes down to is finding the right fit for your expectations.  I believe Island Gal has moved beyond the basics and is ready to source out some more advanced information.  But for those who are brand new to the whole chicken thing there are lots of online sources of information...there are even several very friendly poultry forums that are especially geared towards novice chicken-keepers.

But once a person feels ready to delve in a bit deeper its a common mistake to look to the internet as your main, or only resource for finding breeding stock.  Thats why there are breed clubs that send out breeder directories and shows to attend to meet breeders and compare stock. It would be a rare thing to live conveniently close to excellent breeding stock for whatever breed of animal or birds you are seeking.  Sourcing out new breeding stock usually means a lot of phone calls and much time and effort to make those connections, and often long distance travel or spending a good chunk of money to have those birds shipped to you!

I also should make it clear that the "grumpy, sometimes even rude old breeders" I referred to previously were certainly not anyone on here.  Piet will need another 50 years or so before he can begin to fit into any part of that description and the lovely young Coopslave with her heart of gold could not be rude if she tried.  
Where I find some of those grumps is usually in the specific Breed Club discussions, which can be off-putting to someone new.  If there is a question from someone who is an obvious novice and does not show a respectful, serious attitude, most often they won't be given the time of day, and may even get a blast instead.  Anyone who makes the mistake of using cutesy words like roo, peeps or banties will be quickly put in their place until they can learn proper terminology and ask intelligent questions.  Would you call this bullying?  Or an effort to separate the wheat from the chaff so that knowledge and time is properly invested in those most likely to continue the hobby in a meaningful and serious manner? Long time breeders have made huge investments...sometimes a lifetime, gaining their expertise. I think they have a right to be picky about whom they choose to gift with that wealth of knowledge if indeed they decide to share it at all.

It might be important to also realize novice breeders can make some unintentional blunders that come across as rude.  I have stopped advertising birds to sell on forums because every single time I have done that I get at least one email to the effect of, "I'm not interested in your adults, but I'll take a couple dozen fertile eggs whenever you can have them ready."  If I was interested in selling eggs I would have listed that in the post. I find that simply rude ,and those are the kinds of people who make it hard for the beginner trying to get a start in the hobby to be taken seriously. Now Ive decided if anyone has any interest in the birds I'm raising, they can find me. I'm pretty easy to find.
anyway, Its time for me to leave this topic, and time to take a little break from the forums.  I'm heavily into harvesting and other fall chores.  Hope to see lots of people at the CHB show in November, and I'd love to spend time in face to face discussions with lots of people there, especially anyone new to showing, breeding or chickens in general!  I'm still quite new to showing too, so there is always lots to discuss.   Chickens are my passion, and I hope many new people will be inspired by beautiful poultry they will see at the show. I hope they, too will take the plunge and get started in this awesome hobby!

Uno, you've covered exactly what I was thinking but couldn't find the words to express.

Have you ever given more thought to blogging?

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Well, now two topics have consumed my morning time, so short these days, on the internet. But what a journey....have a beautiful day, CynthiaM.

There is being being bullied and then there is "Being Bullied." We are talking in the context of adults right? If you believe in something you are doing, you are going to find a way to do it. If you get discourage by someone telling you to Feather Off, then maybe you should rethink what it is you are doing.

Look I understand sensitive, shy, gentle people who bruise easily. Now in the context of this conversation, while it is nice to blame those mean old boys with their big baddy SOP as the blame for making those poor newbs want to run and hide their poor mutt chickens, I mean really?

There are many people who breed purebred poultry who don't follow the SOP. You follow the SOP if you want to win at an APA sanction show, as this is the book the club uses to judge the fowl that are entered. That is all. Nowhere does it say that only birds bred to the letter of this one book thus make it a true purebred poultry be. Remember kids, there is no such thing as a pedigree chickens with papers. The SOP is nothing more than a book of information compiled by breeders who are members of the APA. Irony is birds considered purebred in the US SOP may not be in another country's SOP, cause other clubs in other countries have their own SOPs. Who's right in their opinion then? The real purebred houdan please crow now, as example.

It's not steel ovaries, balls or triangles, or whether yours are older than theres. Honestly, it's whether you believe in what you want to do. The world is a much kinder place than the snarky world of purebred animals of any kind. If you want you're my friend newb, I'll hold your hand and show you the way sister, then maybe you are better off back in the big bad world. It's far kinder there than here.

Cause we will beat you with our SOPs. Beat you hard with our bad old book! Bad old book indeed!

toybarons wrote:

Look I understand sensitive, shy, gentle people who bruise easily.

This seems to suggest that people who don't want to get dumped on are weak. I'm sure it wasn't intended that way but something like this has been mentioned a few times so I would like to take the opportunity to suggest that some people would remove themselves just because they refuse to be someone else's kicking stump. Indeed, they might remove themselves in order to save some loudmouth jerk from eventual harm. lol

Years ago I tried out showing birds. I only had hatchery stock and was deep in the learning curve. I happened to be in a group of breeders looking to gain info when one of them started making fun of my Sebrights (he didn't know the owner was standing in front of him). I don't mean a comment. He went on at length. Make no mistake, my Sebrights were too big but, beyond learning the difference, I failed to see the humour. In any event, I wasn't bruised but I did learn that it was a group that I wanted no part of. I was actually glad I got to see what the culture was like as it saved me a good deal of potentially wasted time. Since then I have had my birds and gotten advice from a fellow who is blunt but never personally insulting. I've learned a lot.

Fowler, there will always be people in this world who feel the need to build themselves up by demeaning others. They are not exclusive to the chicken world.

But then, I suspect you already know this. It is unpleasant to experience none the less.

Fowler, you are correct that I didn't mean my comment to mean someone is weak. I meant it more in relation to myself. I was one of those children who "bruised easily" when a negative comment came my way. I would feel hurt and often would withdraw [hence what I meant by "bruise easily".] Since I had little to no understanding from my family, it took me a long time, well into my adult years before I learned to deal with it. It still bothers me. Only now I can tell them to go feather themselves expressively with my middle digit.

Sue is right. There are always going to be people who will try to make themselves look impressive by laughing at others. They really are sad people. Sad little people. Had I been with you, my digit would have told the jerk what I thought.

I think a Lighthouse Keeper could still be a chicken fancier...

SucellusFarms wrote:I think a Lighthouse Keeper could still be a chicken fancier...

I think even if you don't have a single bird to your name you can still call yourself a chicken fancier.

Well, my housekeeping has become so light that it's non-existent, and I still have chickens. So yes, a non-housekeeping chicken fancier IS possible.

toybarons wrote:

SucellusFarms wrote:I think a Lighthouse Keeper could still be a chicken fancier...

I think even if you don't have a single bird to your name you can still call yourself a chicken fancier.

I think even if you have no chickens, you can be a chicken fancier!