The new generation of poultry breeders

Our generation is the first to have access to the masses of information available through the internet. Some of this is provided by knowledgeable breeders who share their tried and true methods on forums like ours.
We can use the internet to source out new breeding stock, do research to see who's birds are winning top awards at the shows and find out how to contact them.
Do you think this new, unlimited access to information will result in expediated success in our flocks? Will those people new to poultry be armed with the knowledge that will help them skip over costly mistakes and setbacks? Do you think the internet will give breeders the tools needed to make major improvements to their breeds in a shorter time?

Definitely a big help to have so much info readily available....just google it!
Only problem I find is that so many people believe anything that's on the internet.
Theories are one thing, but one will always learn more from their own mistakes and experiences.

Piet

Good topic Kathy.

I think we are incredibility lucky to have access to the resources and knowledge we do, as well as communication with people from all around the globe, and all while from the comfort of our own homes. Yes, there is a lot of fluff/crud floating around in cyber space, but there is also a lot of valuable and helpful information. I don’t mind shifting through the rubble to find the veins of gold.

Personally, I think the new generations of poultry breeders have been given a great gift. Whether or not they will take and utilize it to the fullest still remains to be seen…

I look forward to hearing more of everyone’s thoughts.

An interesting question!

Yes all the information and advice available is a huge asset.

It is also a drawback. I think sometimes it allows people (myself included) to believe that they know what they are doing just by reading and looking at pictures online. It results in less face time with knowledgable people learning about your birds and your flock hands on because you don't need to take your birds to a knowledgable person or have them come to you. A picture or description is not a substitute to a judge or poultry breeder looking at and handing the birds in person in my opinion.

So there is a place for the I Internet and forums etc AND still a need for shows and seminars etc. in my opinion.

Interesting topic.

Sometimes pop into another forum that is international in scope. Interesting reading about poultry topics from other cultures and countries, which puts a borader scope on things as well as shows up differences that we sometimes don't think about.

But there was one person on this site who was a walking encyclopedia of knowledge, an active researcher into the area of genetics and poultry science. His brain was like a volcano of information, erupting forth. WHen he answered a question he was not considered a mere opinion, but THE FINAL WORD. And what happened? WHen he was hired by (I believe) an entity of the poultry industry, either a private company or university, he was OFF THE INTERNET because he was no longer allowed to share his intellectual property with the general public! His brain was 'owned' by the people he works for and he posted no more. It was a staggering loss to the poultry people of that site.

I think the internet provides a load of information. But there is a lot more that is NOT available to us, NOT out there for public consumption. There are bright minds and new developemtns that are under lock and key. SO everything you find on the net might not be the final word.

If I had not seen this happen on another site, it would never have occurred to me that information is owned in this way and therefore not floating around in the ether for me to access. Which is not to say that we are short on info, which we are not. The exchange that happens on this site and others is something that was unheard of in poultry breeders 15 years ago!

The internet is a great place to learn things and meet people. I would not have had the opportunity to meet all of you without it. It is very helpful to have someone who can teach you. To have a mentor. Sometimes as in my case there really is no one in my area who is a judge or been raising my chosen breeds. I have to rely on the internet for answers. I mentioned once before if you ever have a chance to steward/write for a judge at a show take it. You will learn so much by listening to how they evaluate the birds. You have to realize that on the day it is "his/her" opinion but it is a great learning opportunity. I hope you will put up with me and all my questins. Thanks
Geri

I find that really sad uno. A sign of the $times$ perhaps?

poplar girl wrote:I think sometimes it allows people (myself included) to believe that they know what they are doing just by reading and looking at pictures online. It results in less face time with knowledgable people learning about your birds and your flock hands on because you don't need to take your birds to a knowledgable person or have them come to you. A picture or description is not a substitute to a judge or poultry breeder looking at and handing the birds in person in my opinion.

So there is a place for the I Internet and forums etc AND still a need for shows and seminars etc. in my opinion.

A very good point poplar girl.

My personal example:

The old saying “Build the barn before you paint it” has been rattling around in my head a lot of late. I’m not sure I’ve been doing a good job. In fact, I know I haven’t. Everyone says select for TYPE first (some say second and third too), and I try, really I do…but sometimes all I see is colour.
I’m ashamed to admit I may have processed a few better built cockerels than what I have now. Their biggest fault was gold leakage or a few odd coloured feathers. It’s a bummer, and also a wake up call.

I have SO much to learn and a real desire to learn, but I’m afraid all the reading in the world isn’t going to cut it or help me develop a critical ‘eye’. I can only hope my selection skills will improve with time and (lots) more experience…but in the meantime, how can I learn to judge correct body type and bone structure better with only pictures and written words to guide me? I am finding it hard, like I’ve hit a speed bump in the road caused by my own inexperience and limitations.

So yes, I’m beginning to see how attending the shows, seminars, and joining the breed clubs, could be extremely beneficial. Not to mention just how awesome having an in the flesh mentor willing to work with you in your coop would be.


Rasilon, the net is a great place to meet others with similar interests. I can't imagine not having my 'chicken boards' as hubby calls them to chit chat chooks on.

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Such wonderful responses to the questions I posed in this thread!
Uno, I had no idea someone would be shut down from sharing information! Unbelievable!

Poplar girl, I agree completely! I think it is easy to become a bit..um dare I say arrogant as we scan through forums and read online books, absorbing all we can and feeling quite proud of ourselves. But all that reading doesn't take the place of a knowledgeable breeder or judge handling birds with you and pointing out their good and not so good traits.

Flicker chick...I've seen pics of your beautiful birds. I think you are being too hard on yourself!

And Geri, don't hesitate to ask questions. People are on here because we enjoy helping out others when we can.

HigginsRat...good for you for not accepting the old adage about the barn and the paint. It may be a good rule of thumb to work on type first, but whose to say we must throw out some beautiful paint while we are at it!

Flicker, I can be colour blind too, don't worry.
I think Tara is right. You really do have to keep colour in mind while you are doing the building. There is not point having a wonderful, typey bird that you will never get the colour right on because you have let slide with recessives you will NEVER be able to get rid of. So type, type, type with a mind on colour is how I go about it.

Uno that is a sad story and a real loss. I am afraid I dont' think I could ever be bought like that. I think I would have a tendancy to tell them where to stick it. I suppose that is why I don't earn lots of money working for a multi million dollar company.

Aargjh once again I would like to post,to contribute. And again I feel totally inadequate to agree/disagree with any one opinion. Starting on the fourth (almost)generations of my EOs, I think one day, "ahah! I know the direction to take!", and then the next think of many reasons why I shouldn't. I love the last few threads regarding this subject here, and now I have to make some (any) decision to start the next go-round. Internet? Great absolutely for basic information, but nothing develops the wye better than experience and having to make the decisions as to where to go next. Will I make the right ones? No idea. But I'll try!

The internet kind of reminds me like when I got my first avian medical book when I was in my 20s. You read through it, examine the pictures and think that you're going to be ready the next time one of your birds get sick. Then when it happens and you try to use the book to diagnose, you find maybe a few things that it can be, then you start guessing "well maybe it can be this disease...or maybe this one?"

While the internet is a great source of information, it can't replace someone who knows first hand that you can go to for help.

^ Too true.

Hmm, I think I may be developing a fetish for the word poppy cock. Ok, that sounded better in my head, really it did…

Seriously though, point taken. A beautifully built barn with the wrong shade of paint (or shabby primer job) undermines everything the breeder is trying to accomplish in the long haul. I was under the impression colour is one of the easier things to get back after a few generations, but I was taking what I had read literally and forgetting what can lurk underneath the feathers. The thought of being plagued with ‘recessives you will NEVER be able to get rid of’ makes me cringe. Definitely don’t want that.

Kathy, you are too kind. I've always been my own worst critic.

Susan, sounds like your is developing just fine - hands on experience is the best workout.

It's not impossible to get rid of recessives - but it IS difficult, and necessitates test-crossing (and heavy culling). Test crossing is the mating of a candidate bird with the desired phenotype for the locus in question (where the dominant allele is the one for the desired trait), to another bird who is homozygous recessive at that locus. Best shown by an example:

You have a bird (#1) that looks great with respect to trait T, governed by a gene with two alleles, T and t. You really hope its genotype is T/T, but maybe it's T/t (with a lurking, unexpressed recessive t). If you mate it to another bird that also displays trait T, you may well get all "T" offspring, but you still won't know if #1 is T/T or T/t.

The trick is to mate #1 to a bird (#2) that displays the undesirable phenotype, t. Because #2 displays “t”, you know it is homozygous recessive, i.e. t/t. This mating will allow you to determine the genotype of #1. If you hatch, say 10 chicks, and all are phenotype T, you can be virtually certain (99.9%) that #1 is T/T rather than T/t. If, however, even one chick has phenotype t, you can be 100% certain that #1 is heterozygous (T/t) and carries the dreaded recessive.

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Yes, ipf, I was being a bit over dramatic with that statement. Sometimes the written word is just not the same without the facial expressions, the flailing hands and the sarcastic tone.

Flicker, I didn't want to scare you or make you cringe with that statement. Just wanted to get the point across that it is not always as easy as build the barn first. This is one of the reasons you are getting that bleeding in your Ams, the hens and pullets don't show it, just the boys. It is tough to get rid of, but can be done. You will get there.

No worries Tara. I have fairly thick skin. I really appreciate you writing your thoughts out. As usual, you make a lot of sense. It just goes to show what I think I know and what I really know are not always one and the same.

It’s recently dawned on me I’m a little OCD when it comes to learning everything I possibly can on a subject that interests me. As a newbie trying to ‘learn the ropes’ I find this to be detrimental at times because a lot of the stuff I read is based on personal experience in the field and one person’s perception often contradicts another. No doubt my student self would be best served by hitting the coop more than books for awhile, and let my birds do the teaching. Bawk-bawk! (Although I can’t wait to snag a copy of that Van Dort book, hehe).

Btw, I really dug your end quote. It's a gooder.

HigginsRAT wrote: Start with a good start, hatch out LOTs of chickens to choose from, keep them safe and happy, feed well, enjoy your hobby.

^ and THIS is possibly the best advice ever. K.I.S.S is a principle I really need to learn, haha.


CS, don’t worry. I was being dramatic myself. I’m not even close to being scared. I’m more excited than anything else and eager to get the show started. I discovered the hobby a little late and want to make up for lost time.


Ipf, that looks like a good formula to out those sneaky recessives. I had planned to do something similar if my pullet’s bendy tail turned out to be genetic, but it seems to be fixing itself now, (fingers crossed) so hopefully I won't have to go down that road.

And on that note, did I derail this thread or what...Sorry bout that folks.