Chef Jamie Oliver and pink slime

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Don't know how I found this but watched it and wanted to give Mr. Oliver a slap across the ear.

THe man, in my opinion, is ignorant. Ignorant as in plain, stone stupid about certain facts that he ought to be up in arms about, but NOT about the production of 'pink' slime' per se.

There are cultures on this earth, now and in past, who have utilized every single speck of an animal's carcass. Here is Mr. Oliver holding up bones and fat and declaring it waste, DOG FOOD. Really? When is the last time beef, in any form, was the #1 ingredient on your purchased bag of dog food? CORN seems to be what we feed our dogs. Beef? I wish!

Back in the day beef fat was rendered and used in multiple forms. Today, we have the pleasure to call it waste because we are spoiled and lazy. Period. Since people no longer butcher their own and no longer care to devote the time and effort to claiming and preserving and using the WHOLE carcass, we grandly get to toss large portions of it and call it waste. This is not a reflection on the usefulness of the pieces of beef, but a reflection on Mr. Oliver's precious, protected and uninformed upbringing.

So fast food chains have found a way to separate meat from bones/fat that does not require paying a man with a knife to do that nit-picky work. Is the reclaiming of this meat a bad thing? Is it correct to call this meat waste? I say no. It might not be prime rib, but it is still meat.

Mr. Oliver is waving a bone around saying it's full of e.coli and salmonella, and the FOOD INDUSTY (gasp, horror) wants to feed it to us.

HOLD THE PHONE, Mr. Head Up Butt Oliver! If healthy carcasses are going in and coming out contaminated, your struggle is NOT with the fast food industry, but with the slaughter industry !

It absolutely blows my mind the people, foodies and organic experts and you-name-it, who FAIL utterly to connect the dots. Who fail utterly to demand improvement where it needs to start; with the people who kill and handle our meat! A healthy cow, except for some internal bits, should be pretty much 100% useable and edible. Oh yes, we modern day people have no time, no skill and no interest in working that hard for our food or accepting meat that might be stringy, tough or weird tasting. BUt our personal lack of skill and interest CANNOT be foisted off on the meat by calling it waste, contaminated, only good for dog food. That is utter bull crap!

There is Mr. Oliver, parading a cow in front of all those people, spray painting the dollar figures on the various cuts of beef while the cow looks on. You know what I would have been mad about? Is THE FARMER paid by the cut? Of the potential dollar value of this cow, how much goes to the man who produced her? Now THAT is something to get angry about, not pink slime.

I bet Mr. Oliver has never set foot inside a slaughter house. I love all these chefs and tv adds who blab on about who and how an animal was raised. What an insult to anyone with even the remotest intelligence! WHO CARES how and animal was raised if it was killed and processed badly! The raising alone does not give anyone a passing grade. Uh, wrong! You can hand feed your animal organic berries and sprouts and still FAIL if it dies a ghastly death in an inefficient, unfamiliar and scary slaughterhouse.

I will give Mr. Oliver the point that adding ammonia to meat seems creepy to me. Yes, by the time that meat is done being mass handled, there is a good chance it IS contaminated. BUt let's point our finger squarely at the culprit : mass slaughter and meat cutting. THE FAULT IS NOT WITH THE COW!

If public figures have a point to make, make it from an intelligent platform. Mr. Oliver does not grasp the whole picture, in my opinion and thus his sermon lacks, for me, conviction. There are issues he is obviously unaware of. Educate yourself, fella.

I've realized something. Food, all parts, is a business. It's control. Organic farmers (No offense) are just as guilty of big food business as everyone else. I thought about it and why Organic food wasn't more readily available to the general public, why more people didn't do it and so on. This touting of it being more expensive is only the case because of supply and demand, and why wouldn't Organic farmers, who charge bookoodles, want it to stay that way? If EVERYONE goes to organic farming, well, suddenly, the value is down and people aren't raking in the perverbial dough.

Jamie Oliver has put forth some great movements for getting fresh foods into schools, but he's a low-fat type of guy who wants to make things easy and quick versus slow (thus the 'waste' for bones and whatnot).

As an aside, Miss Uno. Kirkland dog food, the first 6 ingredients are meat. You can get it from costco.

Uno and Sweetened, I am going to have a tiny, little rant here and then I promise not to participate any more.

Organics are a bit of a pet peeve of mine. People seem to think that organic is better for the animals being raised and that is just a bit of a publicity stunt to make people feel better.

Here is a story from Australia that turned me off organics for good. The largest herds of cattle in Australia are raised in the North on vast properties that we find hard to comprehend as Canadians. It is tropical up there and the best cattle for the job are the humped and eared ones (Brahma, or Santa Gertrudis typed cattle). These cattle do not have the best carcass so they often cross them with a European or British breed. The easiest way to do that is have a bull over the humpy, eared females.
Remember tropical means lots of bugs and flys. Bos indicus (humpy eared) cattle are uniquely adapted to hot climates and they can also move their skin in a way that Bos taurus cattle cannot. They are considered fly and tick resistant and this is why they are suited to that northern climate. Well, when the whole 'organic' thing started to happen, these producers thought why not get on this band wagon as it is as natural as natural can be up there. The thing they don't tell people is the Bos indicus cattle get eaten alive up there without chemical help. The flies and bugs will eat their eye and butts out of them while they walk around. But they are ORGANIC!

Give me ethically raised animals any day. Bred to grow well naturally, but are not a mutant or hormonally enhanced. Given antibiotics if sick and in need. Given feed supplements and mineral when the pasture is inadequate. Provided with water all winter and not just snow. Raised with the animal in mind as well as it's economic potential. You can keep your organic, antibiotic free meat, I want ethically raised animals to eat.

Sorry, rant was a little longer than I thought it was going to be. Wanted to get this off my chest for a while and now I have derailed the Olive thread.........

I'm with you, coopslave!

Uno, I feel like you should actually send this message to Jamie Oliver.

Bang On, Coopslave! When the hoity toity term 'organic' is the excuse for animal neglect...just turn em out and see who comes back end of season, it makes me spagg.

Mr. Oliver can be as fat free as he wants to be. Mr. Oliver can get fresh food into schools. But his personal views on fat consumption do NOT turn beef into waste, no matter how highly he thinks of himself. What would have been more truthful and honest would have been to say, while he held a meaty bone aloft , "In 89% of the world, this item in my hand would be fought over with kicking and gouging. BUt here in North America we are so stinking privileged and moronic that we will throw out, as garbage, what the rest of the world WISHES they had!"  And then someone should have thrown a bone at Mr. Oliver's head.

This fixation we have on food, good food, bad food, too much fat, too much salt, is just plain indulgent crap. We are lucky to live where we do. Shut up and eat your pink slime.

Like pink slime not being required to disclose the fact that it's contaminated with ammonia, did you know 'certified organic' allows for close to 40% GMO contaminated crops? Did you also know 'certified organic' allows for the use of herbicide and pesticied when not sprayed directly onto the plants? It's supposed to compensate for blowover and cross contamination. Some organic farmers spray the dirt with herbicide to weed it before they plant their crop (to me, this is not organic). I do not CARE if it loses you money, file a lawsuit, but if there is ANY contamination, it should NOT be certified organic. I don't care if it makes otherwise unsafe meat safe, your should NOT be putting AMMONIA into ANYTHING to be consumed for food consumption in order to MAKE IT safe. If it ain't safe, pumping it with chemicals will NOT change that.

I agree, this isn't entirely a fast food issue, it is a slaughter issue at the beginning. It is, however, the duty of the fast food industry to say "you gave us crap, give our money back we're finding someone who gives us less crap to turn into crap to give to people in a crappy manner so they feel like crap."

You know what though, the only person responsible for food is YOU. Organic to me, especially for meat, means understanding that, if you live in Australia (to go with that example), you grow what can handle the environment, what is specifically adapted to the surroundings and pests. It means adapting or breeding something to a certain level to get certain results and being willing to treat them (organically or otherwise, because there are organic treatments). I want a geurnsey, but I have grown to understand they can be 'fragile.' This means I need to find a not so fragile breed which also peaks my interest and breed out my own herd with qualities I'm looking for, and be willing to shelter and warm that geurnsey cow. Doesn't make it any less natural to keep it in a clean barn with heat and quality feed in the 40 below winter, imho.

I have to start by saying the I am a big Jamie Oliver fan. That said, he is trying to market concepts to create change. Sadly this is not done to the deepest level, but to level of creating emotional response. Politicians, advertisers etc. understand that the general population does not want all the information to make an informed decision. They are moved by emotional response to make decisions. Fear is the most commonly used motivator, followed by greed and victimization. If we think something puts me at risk, is going cost or make me money or buys into my sense of victim hood we are all for it. Look at the common thread of your rants Uno, it is the lack of people "peeling the layers" to see what is the root cause of the issue. As I said, I appreciate what Jamie Oliver is doing to try and bring about change on societal level. I recognize that he is using the same tools that our politicians and advertisers use. Do I agree with this approach, no. I would be much happier to see a higher level of integrity, and for everyone to be intentional enough in their lives to think through the decisions, take time understand the important issues that affect their lives. Do I have much hope this will happen in my life time, no. Human beings seem to be by nature, lazy. We are becoming more and more brain damaged as a population. We are largely dis-regulated and reactive. We spend little time in the moment, instead we harp on the past and fear for the future. Organics as a concept is a great one, should we do things as least intrusively as possible, yes. Should we throw sense out the window and do things because they look good, no. Do we need to recognize we live in a world that how it looks is more important than how it is, yes because will stop us for going crazy and help us figure where it is best to spend our energy in moving changes in a more integral way.
My two cents worth. Actually with inflation and the discontinuing of the penny round it up to a nickel.

It should also have been made clear by Mr. Oliver that the ammonia used in meat processing is NOT the same ammonia that you have under your sink to clean the toilet. And yet Mr. Oliver STUPIDLY lead his audience to believe that is EXACTLY the case. He is wrong.

He also glugged in a load of ammonia (the wrong ammonia) when in fact the amounts used are very small percentage wise.

Making an out of context statement is not telling the truth nor painting a picture that helps people become more informed. Mr. Oliver did not say that ammonia hydroxide shows up in MANY processed foods like baked goods and some  chocolate. He just created an image that is...not whole, but slanted to support his platform.

Being a no-fat guy, he should have explained that this ammonia process is a way to REMOVE FAT and leave behind an lean meat product. He should be in favour of this...look, a filler that isn't fat!

Ammonia changes the ph level of meat, supposedly to make it hostile to e.coli and salmonella. Our insistence that other sources should raise and prepare our food, our insistence that it be safe and cheap, means that we better not be surprised or shocked that odd (to us) measures are taken to deliver what we demand.

The vast majority of North Americans are utterly ignorant of how food gets to them. They don't care. Many of them even hire housekeepers and wouldn't know a bottle of household ammonia if one hit them in the head, never having scrubbed their own toilet. Mr. Oliver's little rant tells us NOTHING, other than he has access to a cow and some spray paint and a washing machine to toss beef into. Now THAT was sanitary!

Edited to say : BCKev, we were posting at the same time. I almost had a stroke when you said my rants were often about people not peeing in layers. Peeing in layers? I have never ranted about peeing, I'm pretty sure. Oops, re-read. I really should have my glasses on!

Sweetened wrote:Like pink slime not being required to disclose the fact that it's contaminated with ammonia, did you know 'certified organic' allows for close to 40% GMO contaminated crops?  Did you also know 'certified organic' allows for the use of herbicide and pesticied when not sprayed directly onto the plants?  It's supposed to compensate for blowover and cross contamination.  Some organic farmers spray the dirt with herbicide to weed it before they plant their crop (to me, this is not organic).  I do not CARE if it loses you money, file a lawsuit, but if there is ANY contamination, it should NOT be certified organic.  I don't care if it makes otherwise unsafe meat safe, your should NOT be putting AMMONIA into ANYTHING to be consumed for food consumption in order to MAKE IT safe.  If it ain't safe, pumping it with chemicals will NOT change that.

This is why I don't believe anything is organic, unless I grow it myself.

Peeing in layers could be a bit messy and probably much easier for us guys.

bckev wrote:My two cents worth. Actually with inflation and the discontinuing of the penny round it up to a nickel.

I think they round down two cents. Better change the saying to say "that's my three cents worth" and then you can round it up to a nickel.

Uno, I am fond of Jaimie and his cooking shows, but agree his tactics are less than desirable. I didn't watch the video link at the bottom, but from your description I have probably already seen it.

Here is a link you may want to watch. Jaime gets his comeuppance!

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Now before they put the additives in the screened meat, I must say I thought the way they get all they can out of a bony carcass is ingenious! I'd eat that! And I would boil the bony bits left to make soup!

I was saddened though to hear him treat the remaining carcass with such disrespect.

authenticfarm wrote:

bckev wrote:My two cents worth. Actually with inflation and the discontinuing of the penny round it up to a nickel.

I think they round down two cents. Better change the saying to say "that's my three cents worth" and then you can round it up to a nickel.

That's why I included inflation, I would hate to think my thoughts are worthless and rounded down to nothing.

I also like Jamie's cooking shows very much. He too would use those cuts to make broth, etc.

BUT he is trying to "make" a Point, we are served garbage at these fast food places like McDonald's, plain and simple.

We have absolutely no idea what is really in our food, and those cheap hamburgers. Why does "good" hamburger have to have

filler in it anyway? Every time ( which hasn't been for a long time now) we ate at McDonalds, we all got the runs not long after.

We don't eat at those places anymore.

As for him bringing the cow in, "WHY" not? The average person hasn't got a clue what cuts come from where.

Or why they pay more for some cuts than others.

Personally I applaud him for trying to bring this to light for the public.  

Well I only know Jamie Oliver from when he was on Celebrity Apprentice. Thought he was a bit of a stuck up twit. Other than that I have no further comment about him.

As for pink slime. First off, you can't get it in Canada as the process to produce it, the use of ammonium hydroxide, is not permitted here. Products produced using ammonium hydroxide for human consumption from other countries are also no allowed for sale here. Originally filler, which is what pink slime really is, was used in pet food. When meat filler was replaced with corn, that filler had to go somewhere. It found its way into processed hamburger, especially patties used in fast food production.

My personal opinion is I'm not for pink slime. It's obvious that the use of ammonium hydroxide to kill off bacteria such as E-coli didn't do as good a job as it was supposed to just by the number of E-coli related deaths linked to fast food since the 1980s on up. I realize that other factors can also play a part: improper shipping, handling, cooking, ect. Then there is some concern, rightful or wrongful, that the process of wringling out every single smidgen of meat from bone, including bone taken from the spinal column may spread BSE.

My thought that a huge part of the problem is at the slaughterhouse. Starting with the lack of meat inspectors and the lack of those who are on the job, not doing their job correctly that they let violations slide. Why? Dollars & Cents, babies! Because industry holds no respect that their money comes from the slaughter of living animals. I'm not a PETA Pussy. I believe in ethical treatment of food animals. That means proper handling and killing of them which means hiring workers taught to properly do their job. That takes a company to SLOW DOWN production to make sure things are done right, from the killing through to processing and disposal. Instead companies want start to finish zipped through and if that means turning away at open abuse of animals, improper use of sanitation on the killing floor, to missing parts of the carcass that should not be processed, ect, ect... they do.

Because all businesses today practice using the same set of rules. If consumers don't drop dead and/or the media doesn't exposes them for shoddy practices....GET AWAY WITH IT WHILE YOU CAN. Cause it is cheaper for a company to pay out of court when caught than it is to do the right thing from the get go.

As for organic. Yup. It's turning out that they aren't any better either. Many of the so called "organic" companies are owned by Big Food companies. They know how to play that game to and how to make consumers feel good by say a food that barely is organic can easily be just by tweeking production just enough to meet criteria. Yup...mo-money, mo-money, mo-money.

Close your eyes and open wide...

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HigginsRAT wrote:These are my thoughts because like Coopers, I groan when I hear someone is not deworming with chemicals and does nothing or is using "some other organic method" and not validating that what they use is doing the same job the nasty kill them outright chemicals do.  The duty of care to the animals involved is your promise when you acquire them.  And the not checking up on your methods part to ensure they are working makes me groan even louder.

What? You mean mixing up some garlic with some overpriced essential oils and drenching your animals isn't a sure-fire way to get rid of worms? You actually have to CHECK that it's working? *gasp*

(I'm being sarcastic. These "organic" nut balls with no animal sense drive me bonkers.)

Oh Tara, you are really talking my language here! I get so sick of people saying things like,

"Well I use canned pumpkin and I have never had parasites."

I just want to scream, HOW DO YOU KNOW?!? Most people don't even put their hands on their animals much less examine them closely enough to see worms in their poop or mites on their butt.

Thank you for expressing it so well.

Now... How did we get here from Jamie Oliver?

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It's all very well and good for Mr. Oliver to bring attention to the foibles of the fast food industry...but he should bloody well know what he's talking about first.

Blasting the already ignorant public with more inaccurate and incomplete information leaves them just as ignorant as before. Plus, to say that the masses are so stupid that they can only be reached through dramatic crap says Mr. Oliver thinks waaaay too much of himself and waaaay too little of his public.

ANd what's the point of bringing attention to the fact that the fast food industry is feeding us crap? Yeah...duh...fast food. NOT mom's home cooked. FAST FOOD. If you want food that you can get your hands on without you ever leaving the safety of your own vehicle, you better expect it's going to be junk! We need this pointed out to us? This is what we go there for!

Besides, I am not convinced that meat scraps off of bones is actually junk. When I cook my prime rib at Christmas, I will punch someone in the nose who attempts to take that bone! That is MY bone and I will gnaw that triple grade A beef off while grease drips off my chin. Try and tell me that's junk. I don't think so!

Also, we all put in our mouths or bodies multiple things every day that are no doubt far worse for us than ammonia hydroxide. We are all acting as if our lives and diets are pure as the driven snow and oh my Gordon, I'd have gone to my grave an organic specimen had it not been for that one Quarter Pounder I had in my 20s. Puhleeze. ALCOHOL is a known poison. It is TOXIC! How many of us have beer and wine and never squawk about what we're doing to out bodies. But let's get in a flap over ammonia hydroxide.

The truth is I have no idea how this chemical acts in the human body, in what concentration it is used, if heat renders it neutral...there are a host of questions that have to be explained before any of us can make a sound judgement on this. BUt Mr. Oliver explains none of them. He goes for the knee jerk gross-out factor. Let's be emotional and reactionary, Gordon forbid we be considered and seek further information.

I am going to eat a Big Mac and then smoke a wine dipped cigar while sitting on the highway. It's called a high risk lifestyle.

uno wrote:I am going to eat a Big Mac and then smoke a wine dipped cigar while sitting on the highway. It's called a high risk lifestyle.

That's the spirit!

RatHiggins wrote:Psst...I am blaming Coopers on how I got here...heh heh heh... Wink

Happy to shoulder the blame and enjoy the company!!!

Ok, ok, enough hijacking for me, back to Jamie Oliver whom I happen to enjoy on the odd occasion.
Hmmm, Hubby wouldn't like that, whose show I happen to enjoy on the odd occasion.  Yes, hubby would be happier with that!  

No Moscato for me, just Oyster Bay Sauvignon Blanc.......

uno wrote:
Edited to say : BCKev, we were posting at the same time. I almost had a stroke when you said my rants were often about people not peeing in layers. Peeing in layers? I have never ranted about peeing, I'm pretty sure. Oops, re-read. I really should have my glasses on!

Oh geeeze, now that I got that out from under my hat, I can post   beautiful days!! CynthiaM.  (who else pees in layers?)

Oh and Uno, you were affeared that no one liked your obscure posts? Smiling that big smile.

Looky what you have done here? This post is obscure and wonderful and you got a whole group following you and posting. Now going off topic, and I know this is OK   . Uno, never stop being you, we love you.

Coopslave, I would like you to either post here or make a little post about how the cattle in northern Australia move their skin differently to combat the bugs up in the north. This has intrigued me and I think you would be wonderful at telling about it. Am I asking too much? I hope not, I need to know, I am curious more than you would ever believe, and we all know that curiosity never got the cat...have beautiful days, CynthiaM.