Mistral Gris vs. white broiler

uno wrote:When we buy meat birds from the local hatchery, they often give us the chicks that have the odd black feather. The meat growers will not accept the black feathered chicks because the other chickens really peck them plus the flecked look of the carcass. The hatchery doesn't know what to do with these rejected chicks so when a private buyer comes along, they are happy to have somewhere to send them!

So all white meat birds (these are called a Cob and the eggs are shipped in from Arkansas!) can show the odd black feather. The specks have never bothered us. We think of them as freckles.

Oooh, we got a completely black chick from them one time, my eldest daughter kept her and named her "Sparky" as she grew up she turned a lovely dark grey.
We processed her at 14 weeks she was huge, dressed out at nearly 13lbs. tasty tasty bird.

I look at the dark spots as flavour enhancers

Very interesting Sucellus -- sorry I missed it when you posted it.  It is always valuable when people do valid comparisons, and this was very well done IMO.

Mistral Gris are not everyone's cup of tea, and for the rearing system you have set up (small tractors moved twice a day, layer feed, etc.) the commercial WBs are better suited to produce the carcass you want.  They have the 'double breasted' mutation and the short legs you like, and a metabolism that can gain weight even in Boot Camp.  You aren't a fitness instructor, are you?    

Your weight results show that both the MGs and the WBs grew to only half their usual weights at 11 or 12 weeks, which means that they weren't getting enough feed to grow at their genetic potential, and consequently you feed them weeks longer than necessary to get to fryer weights.  I think that if you had fed them more you could have gotten similar weights at 8 weeks (maybe even 6 weeks for WBs) and spent less on feed to do it.  There is a fine balance to these things -- different management strategies, different climates/times of year, different feeds, etc. will give you different results.  You might try feeding next year's birds more and seeing if you can finish them earlier.

About feeding on pasture: as much as we would all love to do this, the Lower Mainland is poorly suited for it.  We grow marvelous grass here, but chickens cannot digest grass any better than we can.  Most pastures here are mostly grass, with a dirth of edible greenery and hardly any bugs.  It's not good chicken foraging, so don't count on it to replace a significant amount of purchased feed.  

Final comment - you did have girls in your MG batch; you ordered and got straight run chicks.

Wow this is all such great information!
Thank you for sharing!
It's something we are very interested in getting into, but before we get started I wanted to do a lot of research on breeds and outcomes ... So THANK YOU EVERYONE, this is good stuff

We had good results with our MGs last summer. We had a few early loses probably due to a waterer that did not work well for chicks. We will definitely be wanting more this year, but will need to find a different processor that will happily do coloured poultry.

Defiantly have to agree with Emily here after raising ~50 sasso's last year. There is a very fine line between two much feed and just enough. I used to hate dark meat as a young child but now I am growing fond of it.

Also protein is a key in growing broilers. You can cut broiler feed up to 15% in weight with whole wheat (it has roughly the same nutritional content) with out ill effects.

For example a former commerical  poultry producer said that the Sasso's ate half as much as his WB did. So it really is all about management style. That is why genetic companies put together multi-page rearing guides.

ps. My grandfather raised WB to 11-14 weeks of the year about every two months - his weights were 7 lbs at the lowest up to 11-12 pounds at the highest.

Rosewood your processor would not do coloured poultry? That's so odd.  

CD, what are Sassos?

Schipperkesue wrote:CD, what are Sassos?

They are something like a Mistral Gris that I managed to track down in QC. Let me link to some of my pictures

The images are huge sorry about that!



















Please excuse all the pictures in the run... It's the only way that I can get pictures with the photo bombers (turkeys)

Hi Emily,

Great to have you weigh in. I know I didn't rear my birds under ideal commercial conditions by a long shot. That wasn't my objective.

The thing I liked most about the Salatin style chicken tractor was that it kept the birds way cleaner, and the birds were kept safe outdoors.  The manure wasn't so much of an issue for the birds and my lawn got a lot of great fertilizer spread over it.  

Prior to my experiment I was completely disgusted by the WB as far as health/filth/quality of life, and didn't want to deal with them ever again.  This was my reason for trying the MG's.  I happened to get a good deal on the WB's, so thought I'd try comparing the two using a new method. I had hoped restricting the feed would slow growth rate, improving overall health, which was accomplished.  I purposely sent the pendulum too far in the opposite direction of commercial style management in order to help find that middle ground I am looking for.  It was a great learning experience. What I really didn't expect was that the WB's would redeem themselves. I can't explain the joy I felt when a 5 or 6 lb. WB nearly flew out when I opened the top door of the chicken tractor.

My plan for this year is to grow my broilers a little quicker with more feed. I want my birds raised in fresh air and sunshine, on clean grass.  My aim wasn't so much to reduce feed costs as to improve the life/health of the birds. Now I will try growing them quicker, but not 6-8 wks quick, to find that level of quality of life for my broilers that my conscience can live with, as economically as possible. The question is, can I feed a high protein grower finisher ration with restricted availability, while still having a decent growth rate and a minimum of lameness and heart attacks?  Where is the balance of maximum growth with minimum health issues? Of course the biggest problem is finding a non GM, high protein feed without going to the ridiculous expense of organic. Though I might have to bite the bullet on that one. For me, GMO's are not acceptable.

Free feeding of a broiler ration gives the fastest growth rate, so least $ spent per bird, but is offset by losses due to health issues, and means dealing with a disgusting amount of manure generated and lame birds. If I had to continue dealing with this I would give up growing broilers altogether. I can live without eating chicken.

Restricted feeding of a lower protein ration resulted in WAY healthier birds, very few losses, but much longer time to grow out, and less lbs of meat in the end, meaning little profit in my pocket. I could live with this to provide meat for my immediate family, but it will not make it worthwhile to grow healthy meat for family and friends, which is my aim.

I know I ordered straight run for the MG's, but somewhere along the line got the impression that only cockerels were available? The did look straight run as they grew. Could be my aging brain....  It will be interesting to see which breed reaches the ideal threshold of growth vs health with the least $ input. Emily, I think I need another order of the MG's...   

S. Farms - were your meat birds kept solely in the tractors after they came out of the heated brooders, or did they range at any time, and were they moved back into a building at night or did they stay in the tractors?  I'm trying to see how I can emulate this but need more details.  Thank you for sharing your process and results with us!

Hi Farmchiq,

My broilers stayed in the tractor from 3 1/2 wks to butcher day. I did not take them out at night or let them loose at all. If you have any gaps under the edges from holes in the lawn, you should fill them with small pieces of 2x4 or something after you move the tractor so nothing can get in or out. Check out the Polyface Farms website for more info.

Thanks.   

call ducks wrote:

Schipperkesue wrote:CD, what are Sassos?

They are something like a Mistral Gris that I managed to track down in QC. Let me link to some of my pictures

A Buff Mistral Gris or Buff Barred Rocks?
Has any one tried to breed Buff Barred Rocks? 
Well here it is.... Buff Orpingtons with Barred Rocks.







Double Barred Rhodebar

bcboy wrote:

call ducks wrote:

Schipperkesue wrote:CD, what are Sassos?

They are something like a Mistral Gris that I managed to track down in QC. Let me link to some of my pictures

A Buff Mistral Gris or Buff Barred Rocks?

Ok so they are similar to a MG in the sense they were developed as a slower growing meat chicken. Except these sasso's were developed by the french for use in the label rouge program - with birds that are certified for use (and other strains of Sasso are not). Not alike in appearance but alike in function.

A most wonderful and informative thread. If I ever had the room to grow out meat birds, I would definitely be choosing something that is not one of the ones that has the propensity to look like what I saw. Guess they were the meat birds. It was when Uno and her Husband took a couple of my mottled java cockerels and we went up their mountain to their friend's house for me to watch and learn how to process a bird. Their friend had about a dozen (can't remember how many) meat birds to process. Mine were processed first and then I wanted to watch how a "proper" meat bird with a good carcass (those javas had basically nothing much to them) looked like. I remember the feeling of abhoration and shock when I saw all the crap all over the stomachs of the birds, and hardly any feathers. It was not fault of the grower of the birds, it was what the birds did I guess. Layed on their stomachs and ate food, it sickened me. But boy, let me tell you, when that bird was plucked and plopped on the table for Uno's Hubby to gut and clean, I was SO DARN impressed with the size of the carcass, the meat on that bird was astounding. Just had to get over how dirty the bird was, and how repulsed too I was. But that is the way that that type of bird just grows and does eh? Ich....thank goodness chickens like that have feathers, smiling. Oh ya, those mottled java cockerels were certainly not of any sort of a meat variety, or maybe I didn’t feed them rightly, or they were not old enough, but they were pretty much skin and bone. And...the other thing that bothered me with the java was that there was black spots on the skin. When the bird was cooked, I was embarrassed as it looked like the bird was moldy, so before anyone saw, I turned each piece of meat over so there was not black spots, only seemed to be on one side and on certain areas, think it was mostly all over though. That was a year ago, and memory is foggy of that now.

Anyways, to get back to what I was thinking. I do not have room to grow chicks that I have especially purchased to grow for food. Just no room. Need that for my other projects. Anyways. Has anyone EVER done a taste test between the birds that are grown for short periods of time, compared to a bird that requires at least 5-6 months to mature enough to get a good carcass size? I say this because in order to have meat birds for our table, the only two breeds that I can grow out on our farm are the Orpington in buff colour and cochins, in blue, black and splash. There are no dark spots on the skin of these birds that I have ever noticed, by the way. I grow them out to about 24 weeks (only because I have no other option other than use my own grown). At that age, the carcass after the abattoir visit ranges between 4 pounds to about 4.6 pounds, had the occasional one at 5 pounds, but that was an old rooster, smiling. The last group of roosters that went for that visit (five of them) had to reach the age of 29 weeks, because there was no processing time available. I have to say, that between the age of 24 weeks and 29 weeks (5 weeks time) that I did not find any difference in weight after processing. I thought that an extra 5 weeks might make a difference, but evidently not. Waster of time for me, will not grow past 24-25 weeks old. Just some information here. My view and perception, others might have different experience.

I consider a 4.2 pound bird to be a nice dinner size. Yes, has taken 24 weeks to grow to that approximate age, but I wonder...I do so wonder. In all the stuff I have read about heritage breed chickens (I am not talking about the hybrids that grow so fast and are designed for meat only), the older a bird gets, the more flavour. Good flavour takes time to develop. So...please. Has anyone ever really done a taste test between their birds they grow for this long time, that I have talked about, to the birds that are grown quickly, even though free ranged, etc. I would be so interested. I know when we eat our 6 month old cockerels, they sure do taste good. But maybe this is all in my head that the birds designed for growing quickly for our table, do not have that much flavour, compared to the bird that takes months to develop. I would be interested to hear people’s thoughts on this.

Now I wonder, Succellus, is this hijacking your thread? I do not mean it to be this way, if you think I am, please indicate and I will take this post to a new thread, kindly indicate, either way.

Getting back to things. I think if I had the room, I would certainly entertain thoughts of purchasing hybrid chicks for growing for our table. I did love the carcass on that bird that I bore witness to at Uno’s friend’s place that frigid winter morning (ya, thinking about it, I think it was like about this time last January). But would at the same time, still feel a need to grow out my own excess cockerels, cause, well, what else can ya do with them? Other than, well, just culling and not doing anything with them. This is a wonderful thread. Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

CynthiaM wrote:  And...the other thing that bothered me with the java was that there was black spots on the skin.  When the bird was cooked, I was embarrassed as it looked like the bird was moldy, so before anyone saw, I turned each piece of meat over so there was not black spots, only seemed to be on one side and on certain areas, think it was mostly all over though.

The black spots in the skin are pre-emergent black feathers.  If you process dark feathered birds when they are still growing new feathers, you will get these spots.  But if you check your birds as they are growing you will see that the new feathers come in during a fairly short periods of time (chicks go through at least 3 sets of feathers in their first 6 months), and if you wait until you don't see pin feathers on your birds they will dress out clean.  Or, pretty clean.  [Some breeds are more prone to having feathers that don't successfully emerge.] One reason I recommend processing MGs at 12 weeks (instead of 9, when they are nice fryer size) is that they are usually finished growing feathers at 12 weeks and will have no black spots.

As for taste comparison, Cindi -- I haven't been able to find any report on a truly valid comparison (i.e. birds fed the same feed, cooked the same way, etc.) but I know that many Vancouver chefs hate the commercial birds because of their lack of flavour and substance. Most Canadians under the age of 60 have probably never eaten any chicken other than the commercial birds, and don't know what a 'real' chicken should taste like. [Julia Child, a California girl, commented shortly after arriving in France that the French chickens ".. taste so chickeny!!"] Anyway, I have eaten many Light Sussex at 16 to 20 weeks, and I don't think they taste any different than MGs at 12 to 14 weeks, although the carcasses are very different.... but I haven't ever cooked two such birds at the same time for a more valid comparison.

I had a customer who bought my chicken, complain that it tasted too chickeny.... her husband loved it though, and still buys from me. She buys that tasteless stuff from the store still.   

I too have enjoyed the results that have been given on this thread. Thanks everyone. Like Heda said earlier I also had MG's this year, this being my 2nd yr this spring will be my 3rd. Some things that I did while doing my birds are...
-I was able to free range all my birds. I have some hopeless thought that by letting them be chickens will make their quality of life better??? or maybe It makes me feel better.
-I rationed the feed as well because I didn't want any additional health issues.
-I left my birds to grow a touch longer. With being free range it slowed the growth of actual meat letting them run around. Confounded woman she thinks we chicken, lol.
-I have done the WB's next to the MG's. I found that the reason I don't like the WB's is because of the short carcass. I butcher all my birds here on the property and found that I don't like that I can't get my hand "up there" to clean out the carcass properly.

On the up side for me of the 1st batch I raised of MG's I wasn't able to butcher about a dozen hens because of the early cold snap we got. I tried and froze my hands off. So by the time spring rolled around I had an additional 12 hens laying eggs for me which is great because we go thru a lot of eggs here and of course additional family gets my extras. So I have 2 yr old MG hens laying eggs for me. Nobody has "kicked it", they lay eggs, fend for themselves, and are the biggest girls I've ever seen. I guess I should take a pic of my biggest girl I affectionately call her Wide load . Maybe I will even try to weigh her. She's a great chicken and easy to handle.

So now I am not sure if any of this makes sense as I'm still on my 1st coffee but I thought I would add my 2 cents.

TruNorth wrote:

CynthiaM wrote:  And...the other thing that bothered me with the java was that there was black spots on the skin.  When the bird was cooked, I was embarrassed as it looked like the bird was moldy, so before anyone saw, I turned each piece of meat over so there was not black spots, only seemed to be on one side and on certain areas, think it was mostly all over though.

The black spots in the skin are pre-emergent black feathers.  If you process dark feathered birds when they are still growing new feathers, you will get these spots.  But if you check your birds as they are growing you will see that the new feathers come in during a fairly short periods of time (chicks go through at least 3 sets of feathers in their first 6 months), and if you wait until you don't see pin feathers on your birds they will dress out clean.  Or, pretty clean.  [Some breeds are more prone to having feathers that don't successfully emerge.] One reason I recommend processing MGs at 12 weeks (instead of 9, when they are nice fryer size) is that they are usually finished growing feathers at 12 weeks and will have no black spots.
.

I find I can remove the black spots easily by pinching the skin and pulling them out with a pair of tweezers.

Schipperkesue wrote:

TruNorth wrote:

CynthiaM wrote:  And...the other thing that bothered me with the java was that there was black spots on the skin.  When the bird was cooked, I was embarrassed as it looked like the bird was moldy, so before anyone saw, I turned each piece of meat over so there was not black spots, only seemed to be on one side and on certain areas, think it was mostly all over though.

The black spots in the skin are pre-emergent black feathers.  If you process dark feathered birds when they are still growing new feathers, you will get these spots.  But if you check your birds as they are growing you will see that the new feathers come in during a fairly short periods of time (chicks go through at least 3 sets of feathers in their first 6 months), and if you wait until you don't see pin feathers on your birds they will dress out clean.  Or, pretty clean.  [Some breeds are more prone to having feathers that don't successfully emerge.] One reason I recommend processing MGs at 12 weeks (instead of 9, when they are nice fryer size) is that they are usually finished growing feathers at 12 weeks and will have no black spots.
.

I find I can remove the black spots easily by pinching the skin and pulling them out with a pair of tweezers.

Oh good I'm not the only one who has done this.

I am not talking about black spots on the skin, those black spots went right into the flesh..it was the breast that I had taken off that had the black, right into the flesh and it looked awful. Had to clarify have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

Cynthia, you are not hi-jacking.  I did cook a 2 yr old laying hen, and she had much more yellow fat on the broth. I made more broth from her than from a meat carcass, but didn't notice much difference in flavour.  That may be because I added more water...

Does anyone that has done them have a feeding guide for the mistral gris? I have only done frankenchicken and strictly followed millers guide for feed. I weighed weekly their ration and adjusted it as they grew. Just curious as to what people do to get optimum results.

fuzzylittlefriend wrote:Does anyone that has done them have a feeding guide for the mistral gris?  I have only done frankenchicken and strictly followed millers guide for feed.  I weighed weekly their ration and adjusted it as they grew.  Just curious as to what people do to get optimum results.

Hey there,

There is not a feed guide for Mistrial Gris yet. I think Emily will be trying to get something done this summer but not 100% sure on that.

Feeding guide -- I wish! The problem is that no two people rear their birds in the same way, and so what works for one farm is not good for another. The things that affect the amount of feed, in addition to just protein content, are: digestability of feed (you wouldn't believe what some people expect chickens to eat!), temperature, activity level, and competition.

So, as a general guideline, I think I will just post a growth curve -- weekly mean weights for males and females from week 1 to week 12. Then every week or two it would be necessary to weigh about 5 birds of each sex, and compare the average weight to the chart. If your birds are falling behind or getting ahead of the ideal weight for their age, you can adjust their feed or housing to correct it.

Does that sound like something that would help, or not?