Opinions on gender *pics*

I know it's hard (if not down right impossible) to tell the gender of a lot of crossbreds when young, but I'd love to hear what you guys think about this 9 week old EE. I'm soooo sure it's a pullet, but maybe because I want it to be?  Daddy was a BR, mom was a blue AM with a larger than normal comb. Thank you!

Wait...mom may have also been a barred EE herself, but I don't think so...Egad. This is probably hopeless. lol

It looks a lot like my barred rock/ Ameracauna cross hen...

Well, if mum was barred, then it's a boy, for sure. Barred mum x any dad = barred boys, various girls (unless they've got dominant white in there somewhere).

If not, it seems a wee bit too early to say. Those pea combs can be soooo deceptive. I had birds up to 14 weeks that I'd thought were pullets suddenly turn out to be roos.

Ah-ha! Well, my mom was Ameracauna and dad was Barred.

Yeah, if mum isn't barred you can't predict gender on the basis of barring.

A barred dad can have barred or non-barred offspring, either sex. If he's purebred, all his babies will be barred.

.

So..fully prepared to be slammed here

what about the color of the feet? all of my girls have blackish colored feet, boys are mostly yeller..

Well I'm confused. I had barred ee's from barred rock hen x ameraucana roo that were pullets? To me she looks like a hen.

The barred allele (form of the gene) is B. Non-barred is b. Hens have only one allele for this gene, since the W chromosome doesn't carry it, only the Z. Roos have two alleles, since they have two Z chromosomes.

So females, in general, can only be either B/- or b/-. A barred hen will always be B/-. Roos can be B/B, B/b or b/b. Since B is dominant, a non-barred roo will always be b/b.

Male offspring of that cross (barred female x non-barred male, B/- x b/b) can only get B from mum and b from dad, so are B/b, and thus barred. Female offspring can only get . . . nothing. . . from mum (at that locus, that is), and a b from dad, so are b/-, and not barred. If you had a barred pullet, its father had to have been barred.

bigrock wrote:So..fully prepared to be slammed here

That doesn't happen on here Bigrock.  

Much of what goes on in the genetics discussions on here is WAY outside and above my knowledge level, but I wouldn't hesitate to jump in with a question if I had one.

Cheers,
FC

farmchiq wrote:

bigrock wrote:So..fully prepared to be slammed here

That doesn't happen on here Bigrock.   

Much of what goes on in the genetics discussions on here is WAY outside and above my knowledge level, but I wouldn't hesitate to jump in with a question if I had one.

Cheers,
FC

No slamming but we should be allowed to BOX EARS when someone asks a one liner that could take an encyclopedia to answer fully.   

It's summer time ... Time for light trivial topics!  Not gender linked shank colours and barring!  

I think one of my goose ponds I am filling is overflowing...Gotta go...Whee hee hee ha ha ha.  


Tara who is running away, gone ducking, playing chicken...whatever...not right now...  

Looks like a pullet to me, but I have often been wrong...

Wow, so much awesome info written here   everyone!   

I also went back and rechecked my 2013 hatch log and I have her mom listed as a blue AM, and the egg she hatched from as blue shelled. And definitely no pointy saddle feathers, all smooth and round cushion. Guess that sinches it then. WOOHOO!!!

Heel low:

Go here bigrock regarding shank colourations in chickens.

https://wcps.canadian-forum.com/t8080-shank-colour-in-chickens#68527

Flicker Chick wrote:I also went back and rechecked my 2013 hatch log and I have her mom listed as a blue AM, and the egg she hatched from as blue shelled. And definitely no pointy saddle feathers, all smooth and round cushion. Guess that sinches it then. WOOHOO!!!

The Barred allele (genetic instructions to be Barred) came from the sire or father of this pullet. Not the mother (she is NOT Barred) because she is responsible for making the daughter female with her w gender allele which is a blank or empty of alleles as far as Barred is concerned. Since she herself was not Barred, even her sons would not have gotten Barring from her (her sons mighta from the DAD, oui!). Her small w chromosome that determines gender to be female for her daughters is too short and does not contain that locus (place where Barring/Cuckoo would be located if it were longer like the z male chromosome).

It is Dad's fault this daughter could be Barred...so you know Mom is NOT Barred but the Dad IS Barred. Dad could be one dose (so dark side of Barred) or two doses (so light side of Barred) of Barred but he is indeed the culprit.

Fun stuff being chicken detectives..."Who done it?" LMBO

Do you have any "Barred" male birds about?

You could determine her father by him being Barred and see if he has the one dose of Barred (darker but Barred so impure) or the two doses of Barred (lighter Barred so pure for Barring) by looking at the photos I posted above to assist you in determining if he is one dose or two doses of Barred.

In future, take lots of photos of the chick down and the chicks as they grow and you can make yourself an expert at understanding what the Barred babes look like in many of the stages as they develop. By having a history of photos, you can study the progression and educate yourself. This could and should be your reason to always be oogling yer birds...Peeping Toms in so many ways! We are all so very sick...have the bird flu, we SO do!

Autosexing. As pointed out by Silverudd (1974), sex-linked barring (B) could be called the autosexing gene, since it has been the key ingredient in all true autosexing stocks. Sex differentiation is accomplished through the well-established dosage effect of B. On appropriate genetic backgrounds, homozygous barring in males lightens down color appreciably more than does the hemizygous condition in females. This B-associated difference is apparent on a wide variety of phenotypes, but is most obvious on a striped down background.

– Dr. Roy D. Crawford


I am not sure if having Barred birds was your intention (you can do autosexing breedings in future) or not or the objective of where you wanna go with the birds in future. Just nice to know how to go about making more Barred. I personally prefer the Cuckoo's because it is cold here in AB and their feathers grow in quickly being Cuckoo (Barred with fast feather growth).


A little after the fact but here is a comparison of mammals and bird genders. Some find photos and drawings easier to understand than mere words...gives them the bigger picture!


Hope this helps.

BTW, she's a sweet looking BOO chicken pullet, Congrats! There are many fans here of the BEARDED ladies. Hee hee...

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
^~~^ Miss yah Makes (Dec 7, 1995–Feb 4, 2011) Miss yah HyBlade (Mar 23, 2000-Aug 7, 2012) ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Red Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS: Wishard Bronze, Red Bronze, Blue Bronze (Red/Bronze Slate/Fawn), Red Blue Bronze, Blue Slate, Rusty Black, Dilute Rusty Black, Narragansett, Jersey Buff, JB Grey downed, Bourbon Red, Lilac, White & Sweetgrass/Ronquière (Black, Red & White (Desert Palm/Sweetgrass tricolour/Yellow-shouldered Ronquière), Black & White (Royal Palm BLACK patterned Ronquière Jaspee), Red & White (Royal Palm RED patterned Ronquière Fauve), & Rich red/chocolate patterned (Ronquière Perdrix).
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Oh I know who done it! LoL It was actually a planned mating within my home flock to test out my new Brinsea incubator. I wanted to try hatching my own eggs before using it to set shipped ones.

Meet the Daddy, Caesar 2.0…and after reading/rereading your wonderfully informative post, (thank you very much Tara), I would say he’s homozygous for barring, yes?


And mom, I’m 99.9% certain now, is this sweet blue hen Belle



Taking tons of progression pics is such fantastic advice. You really do learn a lot. Plus it’s great fun to look back at your experimental matings and see what went right and what went wrong... and what went sideways!  I definitely think I got the bird addict sickness and no desire to be cured, haha. In fact, I’ve probably taken more pictures of my birds this spring than my children.  Ahem. Moving on...

Here’s a pic of the six BR x AM chicks I hatched out of the dozen eggs I set. (actually hatched out seven but one had to be culled for a weird eyelid deformity right off the hop)


I was hoping to make blue barred again with my splash girl, but all her eggs were infertile. Don’t think she liked Caesar 2.0 too much, though he sure had a thing for her, lol He's since found a new home and she is MUCH happier. I can’t tell for sure which one the EE pullet is because I didn’t toe punch any of these chicks. Hadn’t planned on keeping any of them back then… but I think she may be the one in the center of the middle row. Hard to say for sure though.

I deliberately chose one with nice beard/muffs and a small head spot in hopes of hitting the pullet jackpot. Winner, winner, no need for chicken dinner!!!

Flicker Chick wrote:Meet the Daddy, Caesar 2.0…and after reading/rereading your wonderfully informative post, (thank you very much Tara), I would say he’s homozygous for barring, yes?

Yuppers...Caesar 2.0 is in possession of TWO barred alleles!   

If you sneak a peak over him, you can see a Barred hen behind him (probably a henny chest in front too).  Most helpful as the Barred girls can only have one dose of Barring...so you can immediately SEE he is lighter and therefore is pure for Barring having two doses.  Very neat...thanks for posting the pics so we can enjoy this window into the pretty Blue pullet's past.  

You named her yet?

Now if you look in Dad's tail feathers, you will see a few chevrons...not straight across barring so he has not slow growing feathers completely and quite frankly I prefer that.  Get those feathers on those chicken bodies and quit wasting resources, eat and make eggs or meat not slow growing feathers.  Drum drum drum those fingers.    

Ha ha ha...I am NOT like that but I do like faster feather growth in the birds than would make nice straight across bars on the feathers. Chevrons and fuzzy cuckoo markings are good to me.  The sooner they are clothed, the sooner they are "tough" chickens able to be insulated against temperature extremes.  Both hot and cold!  Then we don't have to fret and hover over them...they can handle stuff well!

Keep taking pics and enjoying the aging process.  I'll take pics and not think much about it, but even years later...WOW, they sure come in handy and help you learn.  I often wish at this time of year we could have time to take more photos...snap in time...it is in winter (always) that we think, "shoulda take a pic of that...can't now, all growed up!"   

Flicker Chick wrote:In fact, I’ve probably taken more pictures of my birds this spring than my children. :oops:Ahem. Moving on...

GUILTY...even more so...the dogs were always a fav too of mine... and occasionally, very occasionally, my son was also allowed in the shot, not too often, but sometimes...  hee hee.

Photo albums...dog, dog, dog, dogs, dog...the kid (with a dog), dog, dog, dog, more dogs... He don't mind and when he says he is overdue for a visit, it is not his parents but the dogs he means (and he even brings treats!).  LOL  

It has been lots of fun sharing this with you.     Thank you for that.

Tara

Oh, oh, Bigrock, you asked for it, now you gonna get it, Tara is hot on your heels about some genetics   , she knows I am kidding. But you asked, you gonna get.....never feel you will ever get slammed here, just some place happy to hang out, and ask those questions. I believe Bigrock is referring to her Delawares. Saw them, the pullets had straw, kind of greyish, maybe willow coloured legs, males corn yellow.....I'll leave this conversation now and maybe go into the one that Tara made for you, Bigrock, go there an read, cool stuff.

Oh by the way, I loved your barred rocked Flicker, I think that is a most beautiful breed (so are Dominiques). Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

All genetics aside, I would guess your little one was a pullet. She definitely seems to have a hen shape and stance to me. Very pretty!

You named her yet?

As a matter of fact, our youngest has started calling her Littlefoot. (Though her feet are hardly little  ) He’s right into The Land Before Time and dinosaurs are all the rage. The name will probably stick if she remains with us.

Now if you look in Dad's tail feathers, you will see a few chevrons...not straight across barring so he has not slow growing feathers completely and quite frankly I prefer that.  Get those feathers on those chicken bodies and quit wasting resources, eat and make eggs or meat not slow growing feathers. The sooner they are clothed, the sooner they are "tough" chickens able to be insulated against temperature extremes.  Both hot and cold!  Then we don't have to fret and hover over them...they can handle stuff well!

That’s really interesting about the chevrons. Casear 2.0 did feather in fairly fast come to think of it. He had a few bald patches during adolescent, but not to bad. Well, I do agree faster feathering is likely a lot easier on the birds, there is nothing more magnificent to behold than a Barred Rock rooster in his prime with crisp, even barring. Something about the contrast of black and white feathers against bright red combs and wattles sets my heart a fluttering.  

GUILTY...even more so...the dogs were always a fav too of mine... and occasionally, very occasionally, my son was also allowed in the shot, not too often, but sometimes...  hee hee.

Photo albums...dog, dog, dog, dogs, dog...the kid (with a dog), dog, dog, dog, more dogs... He don't mind and when he says he is overdue for a visit, it is not his parents but the dogs he means (and he even brings treats!).  LOL  

Hehe, that’s funny. Well I’m glad to know I’m not the only one.  Mommy, can I be in the picture? No darling, not this time. Now move over so mommy can see the chickens! click, click LOL

It has been lots of fun sharing this with you.     Thank you for that.

Tara

Likewise!