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Any ideas? A novel of a problem. (gorey, ickey pictures!)

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RavenWood
karona
BriarwoodPoultry
mirycreek
appway
KendraG
lazyfarmer
Fowler
coopslave
Schipperkesue
uno
Ruffledfeathers
Swamp Hen
17 posters

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Swamp Hen

Swamp Hen
Active Member
Active Member

I'm at my wits end here. I know its not exactly chicken related, but we have some "horsey" members and I'm despirate. We built our horse corrall last year, 3 rail wood plank and post construction, new materials. Horses (3 of our own) lived there all summer last year. In the fall our horses went to their wintering grounds, and we had 4 horses in for training. Not a single accident all summer.

This year I bought a yearling in the spring. He was home about a month when his leg swelled up to the size of an elephant. He went three-legged lame in short order. He had two tiney puncture wounds about a centimiter deep on his forearm. One on the front/inside, one on the outside. The vet cut him open to drain it, found no foreign objects. In the process of opening him up, she cut right through to the other wound, but they were not orriginally connected. He was on antibiotics and bute fore a week, with a drain right through wound 'canal'. It probably wouldnt have gotten quite that bad if we had noticed it earlier, but the wounds were so small we missed them. $400 vet bill and a thourough search of the pen. Nothing there.

About a month latter, oh crap. His OTHER leg has a little puncture that looks almost identical, same area of forearm, except its only one puncture wound this time. Caught it early, cold hosed, Bute (keep swelling down) and saline rinces. He was okay on that one, didnt swell up that bad.

Three weeks ago, just after we had them trimmed, my husbands horse was sore. Beleiving she was just a bit ouchey after a too short trim, we decided to just keep an eye on her. A day or two latter her leg does EXACTLY the same thing as the yearlings. Swells up like an elephant, and I find two little itty bitty puncture wounds! Same spot on the left forearm, two wounds, not particularily deep. Another trip to the vet. No foriegn bodies in the wounds. She has just finally healed up from that, a bit of a scab left.

This morning I go out to do chores (and by now both of us are paranoid, watching for anything, picking peices of hay off because their -might- be a puncture wound under there) and I see Rango (the yearling) has a tiney puncture wound on his forearm. OMG. Not again! This one is a little deeper (2 cm?), and is already swelling. Hes on antibiotics, Bute, saline rincing and all that jazz, dont know yet if we caught it in time or if he needs to see the vet.

One last additional peice of information. Last summer we had no problems. This summer our horses have been run through the fence by -something- three times. Coyotes have been bad this year, but I've lost no chickens, cats or dogs. Our neighbour got a pup this spring and it roams around being a nuisence (and has grown quite large) but the horses show no fear of it when it comes into the yard.

Now, I have walked that fence so many times I've lost count. Our water trough is moulded plastic, nothing sharp there. There is a salt block in the pen and thats it. No junk or old wire. Our boards are nailed in place, but I've litterally (I have the slivers to prove it!) ran my hands over ever inch of that fence, inside and out. NOTHING. No big splinters sticking out, not event the NUB of a nailtip. Our feeders are old tractor tires. Same thing. Nothing sharp there.

So what is it???? Always on the front forearm of the animal, always on the two lowest in the peck order. Havent changed a thing in that pen since we built it other than replace the boards they broke going through it. (Nope, nothing pokey sticking out there either.) We thought it might by the neighbours dog biting them, but its only ever a single puncture wound in one spot (one inside, one outside) and never ripped open like it jumped up and tugged when it got a mouthfull. Sounds like a nail to me, but I litterally know ever rough spot, knot and nail in that fence. No nails sticking out. Ideas?? And why have they got infected 3 out of 4 times? We feel so frustraited and helpless!


My husbands mare. You can see how swollen her knee is here (mostly edema, not infection), and it moved down her leg from there as it progressed.
Any ideas? A novel of a problem. (gorey, ickey pictures!) Ciderwound

Tiney wounds. This is what they start as.
Any ideas? A novel of a problem. (gorey, ickey pictures!) Ciderwound2


Rango as I found him today. Hes a bit more swollen now, but I have it bandaged to hopefully keep some of the swelling away.
Any ideas? A novel of a problem. (gorey, ickey pictures!) Rangoday1october292012

The long streak of red is just draining crud, its not actually a cut.
Any ideas? A novel of a problem. (gorey, ickey pictures!) Rangoday1Oct29

Ruffledfeathers

Ruffledfeathers
Golden Member
Golden Member

Oh jeez Swamp hen that sounds like a really noodle scratcher Idea I sure hope it works out for you and your horses.

uno

uno
Golden Member
Golden Member

You have my sympathy. I know that despearte feeling of not knowing what the heck is going on!

They do look like tooth holes. But if it was a bite, there would be a punture on the front and a corresponding tooth mark (or damage) on the back of the leg. A dog cannot bite a horse like that head on, he has to get his mouth around the leg and there would be damage front and back if it was a bite from a canine. I doubt this is a dog bite. Besides, horses very soon learn to kick the stuffing out of some snotty dog...at least ours waste no time stomping the stuffing out of an uppity dog.

Do your horses wear shoes? This might also be a nail that is sticking out of another horse's hoof. If they give each other a kick, a manure/dirt filled puncture wound is the result. Did you say this happens to the guys at the bottom of the pecking order? Makes me suspect a kick. Check everyone's feet for a snagged hoof, long shoeing nail or even an unexpected foreign body jammed in a hoof.

THe only other time I"ve seen injurines like that is when horses come in contact with the short, sharp ends of branches that have broken off trees. They stick out like little spears. Are there trees in your pen? Do they lay down near them, roll near them or scratch thier necks on them? This could be a puncture woulnd from a broken branch (short, stubby).

HONEY...when you see that wound, glob on the honey. No joke! Good luck and don't get any slivers in your fingers.

EDITED TO ADD, the other time I've seen such a perfectly round holes is when someone shot my dog with a high powered BB gun. Do you have deranged lunatics in your neighbourhood?

Swamp Hen

Swamp Hen
Active Member
Active Member

Uno, we dont have trees in the pen, but their are trees around the outside, most of them are tiney though. Will double check them. I never thought about a shoe nail, thats a good thing to check! Unfortunetly none of them have shoes on at the moment, and everybody has had their feet picked over the last couple days.

We do have a lunatic neighbour who hates animals. Evil or Very Mad You'd think we'd have found a pellet in the wounds though... *sigh* Thanks for the ideas, I will keep an eye on those trees!

Thanks for the support Ruffled Smile

Schipperkesue

Schipperkesue
Golden Member
Golden Member

Snakebite?

Guest


Guest

What first occurred to me is snakebite but I don't think Brandon has poisonous snakes. Could one have gotten there somehow?

Schipperkesue

Schipperkesue
Golden Member
Golden Member

It is also a tad cold for snakes right now.

uno

uno
Golden Member
Golden Member

Jumping snakes? Aren't snake bites more ankle height? These must be some tall snakes! Snake bite..wait..it's a VAMPIRE!

Edited to add, when my dog was shot with a BB all I found was the hole. The BB stayed in the dog and was revealed with x-ray. Vet left it there, saying it would do more damage to go slicing into the muscle to dig it out. Many dogs live with BBs/pellets stuck in them. The problem is when the entering projectile pushes in hair and debris with it and infection is the result.

I'm NOT saying your horses are being shot...imagine propping a gun on the middle rail of a fence, wouldn't that set the BB about upper leg height?...just that BBs jammed in tissue do not just plop out. They STICK in there!

coopslave

coopslave
Golden Member
Golden Member

I don't think I will be very helpful as I have not idea what it could be. What is astounding to me is how quickly and aggressively the infection is setting in. We get bad infections like that from small barbed wire cuts as it is such a dirty place here with all the cattle. It must be something very dirty or with a very high bacteria content.

See, I told you, not much help. Rolling Eyes

Schipperkesue

Schipperkesue
Golden Member
Golden Member

Again if it weren't so cold I might guess some kind of poisonous bug.

Uno, I have seen some snakes oil back and spring up pretty high. Mind you, that was on National Geographic! Wait... Maybe the horses were laying down at the time?

Fowler

Fowler
Golden Member
Golden Member


http://www.silverquine.com/blog



Stake wounds can occur anywhere on the body but are most common in the sole of the foot, the legs and the chest, and most impalements occur when horses are running. High-speed contact with a seemingly benign object, such as a downed branch or corn stubble, can drive it deeply into the flesh. Puncture possibilities abound around horses: splintered fence rails, broken wire, T-posts, protruding or fallen nails, rigid plant stubble, ice shards, sharp shoe studs on other horses, branches and thorny brush.

lazyfarmer


Active Member
Active Member

If you have ruled out puncture wound as a cause, as it seems as you have done a good search of the fence. Do you have posionus spiders in your area? They will cause a very small hole, but after it is infected it will show up as swelling and a larger drain hole. If you don't have spiders or any other small biting insect I would suggest that you have a case of Lymphadenitis. Unless you have an older vet most don't even know what that is or how it manifests itself. Do a google seach, it will explain it and shows pictures of other horses with that problem.

KendraG

KendraG
Active Member
Active Member

The swelling and lameness sounds like a cellulitis - some horses are simply more susceptible to cellulitis, and any sort of a break in the skin can cause it. I know of a couple who routinely have to go on antibiotics for otherwise completely innocuous scrapes.

Doesn't explain what's causing the wounds in the first place of course ... horses, eh? I swear you could wrap them in bubble wrap and they'd still find a way to get hurt. This summer we had a broodmare, in the same pastures she's been in for many, many years (she was 21 and we'd owned her since she was 6 months old) break her elbow - smashed into a million pieces on the xray.

I hope you can solve the mystery - treating wounds is never fun, but it's worse in winter!

http://www.partridgechanteclers.com

Schipperkesue

Schipperkesue
Golden Member
Golden Member

KendraG wrote:I swear you could wrap them in bubble wrap and they'd still find a way to get hurt.

That must explain this picture:

Any ideas? A novel of a problem. (gorey, ickey pictures!) 0c29b76317dcb2abfe3dbd828a9372a5

KendraG

KendraG
Active Member
Active Member

Haha! The pink string is a nice touch ... I think I would've gone with duct tape ...

http://www.partridgechanteclers.com

appway

appway
Golden Member
Golden Member

Haveing Horses it looks like 1 of to things to me
Either a Wire Poking
do you have barb wire or even page wire up
They can be pushed into it or run into it
Or a branch is poking them if they are leaning over the fence they can be poked then.
I would check and see
I know it sometimes drives a person nuts and then all of a sudden you will find the problem
also do they go into the barn or stalls?
There might be a stray nail or a piece of wire

uno

uno
Golden Member
Golden Member

Kendra is so right! What is it with horses? You can keep a cow in an old dump site with hazard knee deep and they are fine. But a horse? IF there is one single twist tie somewhere in its pen, it will find that twist tie and mortally wound itself with it. What's the deal with that?

Since these injuries are occuring at around the same place on the horse's legs, I would rule out biting bugs or snakes. Biting bugs or snakes would be more random. other places on the body. This is something that is that height on horses when they are standing or laying down.

Where is Forelock Holmes when we need a sleuth?

mirycreek

mirycreek
Golden Member
Golden Member

I agree, the injuries are too similar to be random bites and makes sense that it is the same thing poking them.
That is a really bad thing, hope it has a very simple, fixable reason.
The BB thing sounds very bad but not impossible for sure?

http://www.feathers-farm.webs.com

BriarwoodPoultry

BriarwoodPoultry
Addicted Member
Addicted Member

Just a thought....

What comes first? The swelling or the hole? I'm thinking perhaps your pony has a foreign body lodged in that spot if the infection/wound is in the exact same spot every time? Could be from a little sliver, a bb, anything that's worked its way deep enough that you can't see it and a short round of antibiotics/treatment of the wound takes care of it. Maybe a longer course of antibiotics would help? If not (and your vet thinks it's plausible that it might be something stuck in there), sedation to explore the wound would be a half decent idea. This happens in people and animals, my dog's toe kept swelling off and on and got cellulitis repeatedly. Not an abcess, not a broken bone, we x-rayed and explored the area and found nothing. Finally a round of anti-inflammatories and a long course of antibiotics (3 weeks) and it hasn't flared up since early summer.

http://briarwoodpoultry.weebly.com

Schipperkesue

Schipperkesue
Golden Member
Golden Member

uno wrote:Where is Forelock Holmes when we need a sleuth?

Why, right here!

Any ideas? A novel of a problem. (gorey, ickey pictures!) D041dc2cbbd2e21007b1be0ec1f9c48c

Guest


Guest

I'm not any good with diagnosing these things, but since it's an infection, I would suggest Oregano oil on it. Oregano oil is soaked up by the body and can be used as a topical pain killer and anti-biotic that doesn't breed resistance. When you notice the swelling you could saturate the area with it, see if it pushes back the infection.

Just a suggestion. I use it a lot now since I had a cat turn up with a really strange infection. His leg swelled to twice the size randomly and someone told me about it so I gave it a go. I had used it once before as an additive when I had coccidosis. I put the oregano oil on the leg itself and on his front left paw (so he'd like it off and take it internally. Swelling was down by half the next morning and gone by the day after.

good luck

Swamp Hen

Swamp Hen
Active Member
Active Member

Thank you so much for all the responses! After 4 days of the Wonderdrug Penicillin (I really, really hate using it, but the wounds are so close to the knee I'm scared not to!), Saline rinsing and Bute, things are looking good. I would have suspected something lodged in there too, exept two different horses have had the same wound pattern, and both have had "exploratory slicing" done by the vet. Never turned up anything.

I did check for branches/sticks, but none of the trees are close enough to the fence Sad Next time (oh I hope theres no next time!!!) If I catch it early I might try some less traditional medications, see how they do. Thanks for the support, its wonderfull to have a "Featherless Flock" to lean on Smile

karona

karona
Full Time Member
Full Time Member

Schipperkesue wrote:
KendraG wrote:I swear you could wrap them in bubble wrap and they'd still find a way to get hurt.

That must explain this picture:

Any ideas? A novel of a problem. (gorey, ickey pictures!) 0c29b76317dcb2abfe3dbd828a9372a5

Ok I am not a horse person and after reading some of the
comments don't think I want to be.
But please explain why a horse is wrapped in plastic
and who's horse is it?
Must be a very patient animal to let itself get wrapped
up like that.

Swamp Hen

Swamp Hen
Active Member
Active Member

About the only thing I can think of is its either a prank, or they are doing some kind of a "sweat." Never seen the likes before Shocked

KendraG

KendraG
Active Member
Active Member

karona wrote:
Schipperkesue wrote:
KendraG wrote:I swear you could wrap them in bubble wrap and they'd still find a way to get hurt.

That must explain this picture:

Any ideas? A novel of a problem. (gorey, ickey pictures!) 0c29b76317dcb2abfe3dbd828a9372a5

Ok I am not a horse person and after reading some of the
comments don't think I want to be.
But please explain why a horse is wrapped in plastic
and who's horse is it?
Must be a very patient animal to let itself get wrapped
up like that.

The joke about wrapping a horse in bubble wrap is pretty common. I suspect this was an accident prone horse, so someone did this as a joke. My friend has a horse we've nicknamed "Melvin" for the hypochondriac giraffe from Madagascar because he's always got something wrong with him. ;-)

Luckily, the enjoyment that us crazy horse people get out of our horses outweighs the fact that they are pretty darn fragile.

http://www.partridgechanteclers.com

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