P.O.A.A Sale

What can I say but we had another good sale. Good people. Good prices. Good selection. Good quality.

I too , was happy with the every thing . I sold some , and bought some . Was happy with the prices over all . Some price I noticed for some peoples birds were higher than in the spring. Good Qaulity Birds too. Was happy to see all the new faces . And a Beautiful day to top it all off .

Had a great time! As usual the sale was well organized with lots of energetic volunteers to keep everything moving. There were some excellent birds there...some good deals to be found, and a few went for surprisingly high prices!

Amazing Sale! So good to be able to see all our members pull together! The quality and presentation is becoming the standard in Alberta and incredible that the fall prices are in some cases better than the spring sale! So cudos to all the members, volunteers, sellers & buyers - Just couldn't do it without any of you!

Popwa sale was excellent, the folks that put this sale on really truly hold a first class auction. Many thanks to everyone whom had a part in this.
Many great healthy looking birds, lots of great boxes and stock all around. No complaints and very impressed!

I too have to say from the start, we were welcomed warmly with our consignments and many people stepped up to help us unload and get the boxed birds to the viewing area. KathyS and TripleJ were right there to help and it was appreciated very much. Thank you ladies!

We consigned a few Buff Sussex, Light Sussex and one Pair of Coronation Sussex, which shocked tsamis and myself selling for $130.00 for the pair. Whom ever took these birds home will hopefully allow them to breed and work with them. They truly are one of the nicest breeds of Sussex we have.

We had also consigned two very nice pairs of Buff Orps that originated from the wonderful KathyS, we we blown away when the bidding lit up, the first pair went for $110, the Second pair went for $120.
This didn't really come as a shock to me, as these Buffs are show stopping gorgeous and are just amazing all around. I give FULL credit to KathyS as she is the one who provided us with this flock, all we have done is give them a safe place to roam and sleep and feed them well.
Kathy I saw your face when the bidding was done you looked shocked.... i hope that was a good shocked.

Like I said I give you credit and proudly tell people when they ask(ed) that these are Kathy Stevenson Lines.
I am honoured to have such a remarkable line of Buff Orps, as after all I am Orp Crazy!

Tsamis did well at this auction as a buyer.

We took home a very nice Male and Female Opal Peafowl from the wonderful Doug S, and followed it up with another gorgeous hen from Barry K.
This is our first ever trio of peafowl and we are very happy to have them here on our property. The male was calling out last night in his new pen, checking out the new home they have.
Today they greeted me, but soon I realized they are a bit scared of me so I have been keeping my distance.

Thanks everyone who made Popwa a great auction!

Congratulation to you Jonny on your sales.....We had hoped you were pleased.
I believe that Kathy was just as shocked the first time she brought birds as well.
Thank you for taking the time and coming out to take part in the auction!
Our hopes are to get more breeders like you (& Tsamis) and Kathy with your fantastic birds to have a great experience and to spread the word that not all auctions are 'rotten'!
As the original POPWA club was founded on Gamebirds and Waterfowl, the whole poultry movement is somewhat new to some of the members but the nice thing is, good poultry has always commanded a good price!

Sounds like a wonderful time and a lot of good prices.
I agree with you Jonny about Kathy's birds, we have a trio here now that are gorgeous. The one hen has just started laying so my daughter is anxious to hatch. We have decided to wait till their eggs get to full size to ensure the best quality chicks from this trio.
I am going to have to put POAA auction on my spring auction list next year!

Jonny Anvil wrote:
We had also consigned two very nice pairs of Buff Orps that originated from the wonderful KathyS, we we blown away when the bidding lit up, the first pair went for $110, the Second pair went for $120.

Well thanks so much Jonny, but you must not downplay your role in feeding, management and preparation. The bidding war that ensued when your birds hit the stage was quite exciting! You sure know how to grow beautiful chickens and you displayed them all beautifully and they looked stunning. The light and coronation sussex really had people talking! Presentation is so important at these sales. The 3 Buff Orp pullets I had there were from the same hatch as yours, same size and everything, but they sold for either $20 or $24 each, can't quite remember right now.

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Sounds like staying home with your chickens is a good place for you Mr Rat. Some peope are just happy to sell there extra birds and remember that these people are the ones that do end up getting into show quality birds. I have just started getting into chickens and want good quality but with your attitude on your post will defiantly be going to others. Now I really wish Alberta was Rat free.

I find it hard to understand that you were paying those sort of prices that long ago for bantam breeders......As we are exclusively Bantam breeders and have purchased the majority of the stock we own now from our esteemed poultry judges & breeders who Thank Goodness have been more than willing to sell and share thier stock with us and we certainly have paid good dollars for some of them but even they have not charged us those sort of prices! There is a line that has to be drawn and I fear you were probably taken advantage of. I have been involved with bantam breeders for over 15 years and even then the good breeders were not paying that sort of a price! Though anyone who has may beg to differ.....nor would we ever sell our birds and expect those prices regardless of the feed and fuel costs as this is a hobby! LOL

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I don't think this is the place for personal attacks either, so please keep those to yourself for the benefit of the forum members.

Tara yes we should all be getting what we put into our stock, but it is just not believable. Jonny is happy for the $65 he got per breeder birds, they are from very nice stock (I have 3 here as well that I just love), but many many people will just not pay us breeders what we put into our birds. We have to take a step back and start looking at what Fair market value is and what Suggested Retail Price is...I hope you understand what I mean. In this world prices are always driven by supply and demand, not always it there a profit in the things we do.

Tara,

like I have mentioned before I am honest...

to say that I am not insulted or offended by your post would be a complete lie, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I often have a difficult time understanding yours at best... seams you try to always "one up" everyone. I still have no response that I can kindly repay from your last insulting remarks regarding my birds or my dealings you so kindly shared earlier on this year.

BUT... you have had many chances to share your opinion, I am hoping that Hidden will allow myself to keep this post up cause something needs to be said.

I may be young, I may be less experienced, but I will no longer sit back and not stand up against thread attacks like this.

I simply don't understand how prices this low would make sellers happy? Maybe one only feeds "barley from grandpa's bins" to the birds or has no investment in their facilties (only predation ever here was once in 2007 when I left a hen out one night for the owls to eat) or only grows out hatchery stock--I DON"T KNOW! I can only quip silly explanations on what costs others are not paying that we here are.

First of all congrats on the zero predation since 2007, I like to free range my birds and seeing how I live in the country I do loose the odd bird to the odd fox, coyote or a duck to an owl, life goes on. But it has been a while for me too. I have a perimeter fence and often let them explore the yard. It's a great way to ensure that they are not Cooped up all the time, as well they can get access to the things that they need in their diets. No I don't feed barely from Grandpa's bin, but what I do feed is this...
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] take it as you want perhaps you may think I am feeding them wrong but there are no scrawny underfeed birds around here. Heck I often share oatmeal creamed corn and yogurt with them, as organic as I can get. What I love is watching them chase the grasshoppers.. they must love that. As a fisherman, I also get mealworms in bulk and sometime share the fresh ones with the chickens before I even get out fishing. Feeding issues, don't think I have those.

Growing out hatchery stock....... when I first started yes, cause all I wanted was chickens and I as a fool started with 6 barred rock chicks from an auction that I thought was a great deal, as I liked the barred rocks what I didn't know then was that the lighter they are... well the loader they will crow. I got 6 males... Ooops. But that's what started it all out for me, from there I got into Orps.

My Opringtons... I have to say that they came from some rather reputable breeders. My first lines came from MarshaSmall, the history on these birds is interesting. Patric L and Heidi S. Both played a role in the development of this line. I had a nice email exchange with Patric when I started to search deep down to find out the Quality of my lines. I have been working with these lines now since 2010 and received quite the compliment from Heather H, in regards to the improvement in them. I give Rico and Heather credit for helping me in what to breed for, look for and I am excited to show them the latest results.

KathyS is right, I should take more credit for the lines of Buffs we acquired from her, after all she is correct in the fact that I had a huge roll in the rearing and proper care and feeding of these Orps.
I have to say that they are some of the nicest Orps I have, and I am proud to say that my own lines of Blacks are truly not that far behind. If I am not mistaken KathyS did very well with her Orps at the last Show.

For me it's not all about the price of the bird, Yes I am happy that a pair of Coronations went for $130.00. To me that is 20.00 more than the original investment of just 4 of these lines and I have my breeding group set for next year, an impressive group at that.
I sold a trio of black orps earlier this year at auction and they went to a nice gentleman whom loved the breed for a sale price of 160.00 for the trio. To me that was 100.00 more than the original investment of my original quad from Marsha when I fell for them in 2010. Not to mention other pairs trios and hatching eggs I have sold supplements feed costs.

I have not been working for the past 4 years, I went back to school and have been sick on and off.. For me this is my Therapy, my hobby, my life.

l and have more or less continued this hobby with the help of Tsamis, he has chipped in a great deal to make this all what it is, I give my father credit for so much.

I come from a background where we have worked hard to get to where we are, I still remember living in Edmonton housing when I was a child... My father has done amazing to get this family to where it is today... and with the passing of my Grandfather as sad as that was, he left my Dad in fairly decent standing, it's not a whole lot of money but to him it was a great deal.

Now me personally I can't afford to bring in the best of the best, like you have been able to and 15 years ago I was living in the city, wishing I was on a farm.

But what I can say is that I know and fully understand the value of a dollar, but I don't put that much emphasis on it.

I have lived my whole life in the shadows of those who discredit me cause I may not be as well off or have cool stuff or live as good as they do, I am simple man living in an ever growing complicated world.


As for my chickens, and poultry alike.... I have some damn good quality birds here... I am not selling off my cull stock, all my culls are long gone. What I am selling off is all my 2nd choice breeding stock, birds whom I would have kept in my breeding programs, but the reality is I needed to clear room for my Top Breeders, and get SOMETHING back for the rest so I can go buy more feed, and make those upgrades and get new waterers and so on.

I have been in this for two years, and feel I have come along way and will continue to grow as a breeder and a keeper and a simple man.

Remember I am a business man as well, I fully understand how I am running my operation, but it's not being run into the ground. For me this auction was rather helpful as I can now provide feed for the entire flock for the next 4 months, at least.

Funny thing is I am getting and rearing some quality stock on a very low amount of Capital... no need to blow lots of money bringing in top quality birds and spreading someone else's efforts around.
Nope I sat back made a choice and decided what I was after went out and got it, and have done my best to improve upon what I have.

That's one of the nicest things about growing up in poverty, you learn not to put a dollar value on everything.

Would I have been sad if the sold for less, well not really. I would have just bitten the bullet and took it as it goes.


Not everything in our lives needs to rear a profitable return.... one of the first thing I learnt in life, and then was retaught as an adult in school.

Maybe this answers your question, maybe it does not... but frankly I have no use to converse with individuals whom consistently one up others on a regular basis.
Tara you claim to be this master knowledgeable tell all breeder know all breeder. Maybe if you saw the lines that I have, or the care I put into... with the resources I have.... Perhaps just maybe you would have had a bit more class and respect and to not try to once again Share your ONE UP...... 15 YEARS AGO WE GOT BETTER MONEY. I BUY ONLY TOP STOCK.

When you are ready to treat me with a bit of respect, feel free to park you high horse in the pasture and come have an actual conversation, not lecture me about the differences between your life experiences and mine...

I don't think anyone has gotten under my skin more than you have...
This being said. I have nothing left to discuss on this topic with you.. You know who I am, If you want to ever start over and earn back my respect. Then feel free to talk to me in person. Not on the forum.

But know you know how I feel... and why I do what I do and why I am happy with $65.00 per breeder stock of bird.

Thanks for making this an interesting day.....

Jonathan

Dear Rat,

Clearly you are in the wrong forum. Here is a link to the Progressive Economics Forum. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I am sure that you will find a far warmer reception your in-depth treatise on supply and demand economics there (heck, you might even learn something!).

This forum is for people who :

a) ARE currently interested in poultry production as a hobby (which admittedly, you are not)...none of us are trying to get rich. If we were we would all attend the Harvard School of Business and not the local Ag. sales. Or maybe we would live on industrialized mega-farms or tank farms, not hobby farms. We look at our inputs and assess our outputs, including the enjoyment we get out of raising poultry, and that's how we decide whether it's worth it.

b) ARE interested in, and attending local auction events (which admittedly, you are not). By the way, here is a definition of the word "auction" from Webster's Dictionary: "a sale of property to the highest bidder". So by definition the price at auction IS the going rate. Someone so well versed in economic theory as yourself should recognize this. Is it just me, or do the prices for agricultural products not rise and fall over time as with all commodities?

c) ARE here to share information about a pastime each of us enjoys, NOT to write nauseatingly long posts that are a thinly veiled attempt at making oneself look ever so much smarter than everyone else (which, clearly, you are).

And as a side note: there are a lot of folks in this online community, including myself, that DO regularly volunteer with clubs, auctions, or just trying to help each other out with information and advice in the spirit of friendship (which, admittedly, you do not). I will tell you from personal experience that many hours of volunteer work go into the POAA club, it's website, newsletters, and it's sales, as I am sure it does with many of the other small sales that go on around the province for other groups each year. From the reaction you have received to your posts, clearly no one here appreciates your snooty negativity, and your insinuating that the POAA club is somehow ripping off its members when you ask, "Why is a club auction (which one would hope is suppose to support its members and newbies; buyers and sellers alike) not commanding fair market value for efforts put into stocks?" I refer you back to the definition of the word "auction".

Excuuuuuse us for being insulted!

Most of us country folks like to live by the saying, "If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say nothin' at all". But what do we know? We're just farmers.

BarryK

HigginsRAT wrote:Heel low:

barryk wrote:Sounds like staying home with your chickens is a good place for you Mr Rat. Some peope are just happy to sell there extra birds and remember that these people are the ones that do end up getting into show quality birds. I have just started getting into chickens and want good quality but with your attitude on your post will defiantly be going to others. Now I really wish Alberta was Rat free.

I am asking why people would accept prices that are lower than those ten to fifteen years old when costs are not the same as ten to fifteen years ago. Costs have increased. Making an attempt to attack me personally is irrelevant to reality.

Hmmm, maybe Jonny is making a donation to the club of his own, but it does not warrant the reception that somehow $65 for a breeder chicken is a good price for it is not.

From the sounds of what others are saying, Jonny's birds were good breeder birds...why did they not bring more realistic to now prices? This is a fair question to ask. Was he being taken advantage of by the buyers? Jonny has a great heart and is a free giver of himself, that is truly evident with every breath he makes.

Why is a club auction (which one would hope is suppose to support its members and newbies; buyers and sellers alike) not commanding fair market value for efforts put into stocks?

Does the emperor have no clothes and this is the first you have heard of it??

For me, his birds ARE show quality birds and should fetch a higher price than $65 each. That is criminal when a POL hen costs $40 with no allowances for labour OR profit tagged on...that is a Point Of Lay, not something you breed forward from.

Jonny and others like him need to stay in the hobby. He needs to be remunerated to cover the costs it takes to raise up his "extra" birds. His personal contributions to the Hobby are huge; willing to transport birds for others, build housing and raise up nice stock. He needs to be supported with a decent return on his real life investments.

Your reply has not answered my questions or contributed whatsoever to this post. Why when breeder birds were receiving $100 each ten and fifteen years ago are those same birds now receiving $65 at the high end?

You have my personal permission to dislike ME as a person all you want, irrelevant to the perfectly acceptable question I raise, "Why are people pleased with prices lower than ten to fifteen years ago?"

Your club and this hobby has no future if good honest working persons cannot receive fair dollar value for their birds as per REAL TIME and MONEY VALUES.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
^~~^ Miss yah Makes (Dec 7, 1995–Feb 4, 2011) Miss yah HyBlade (Mar 23, 2000-Aug 7, 2012) ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS (Jersey Buff, Bourbon Red, Wishard Bronze, Narragansett, Slate, Red Bronze, Rusty Black, Dilute Rusty Black, Red Blue Bronze, Lilac, & Sweetgrass).
PHEASANTS: Red Golden & Silver.
Registered: Australian Cattle Dogs, Jacob Sheep, Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, & Llamas. Pond Fish.

Well,

I wrote my previous post in a fit of anger. I had been sitting here for a while thinking about my words and typed up my last message and posted it to find these new messages.
Now I am completely confused.. lol

What came across to me as insulting in one post, now comes across as... wait for it. Flattering
Tara, at times you are very hard to read and understand......

My previous post was meant to defend myself not to come across as insulting, and as I have read over my words i posted above a few times now I feel that yes I was out of line.
Honesty.... here it comes again. I feel as though I still needed to say what i did. I won't take it back but I am not happy either.

Like I mentioned I am confused, in one post you question the quality of my birds and the feeding regiment they might be getting, then you come back stating that you KNOW that I have some quality birds.... How does one question the quality of one's stock, then insist they know the quality of.
I reiterate, I just don't get you.

I understand that you most likely meant no harm, and that you have a justifiable reason for asking... is there a better way about doing this perhaps?
You had indirectly insulted me, then turned around and buttered up, I don't like to deal with people in any aspect of my life who come across as "two-faced"

But I give most people the benefit of the doubt....

Rat
You sure ruffled my feathers on your post - can't stop looking at it without getting angry. My last comment is going to be about Grandma and Grandpa's feed. My Grandma and Grandpa cleared their farmland by hand without a tractor or a horse. We should be proud to feed our birds grain from their bins if they were still around. Heck I'm sure they would even share it without expecting to make a buck in return.

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Wow, this post got a little runchy at best didn't it. I personally do not attend acutions and would never look down on them that do. Many people don't know where to go to source quality birds and the auction is sometimes a starting point for them but I must say if I did go to auctions the POPWA one is the one I would go to as it is very well run and the birds are well presented for the most part. I don't think any of us should question what dollar amount makes the seller happy, sometimes I am just as happy to let the right bird go to the right person for half of what I would normally ask.

This is a "HOBBY" for most of us and I am sure many of us can quote 90 yrs of poultry keeping though our families, just as you do Tara. I don't think that it is productive to continuely point out that you know more and pay more for birds than the next person. Everyone's opinion is to be valued and if he or she is happy getting 30- or 40 bucks for their birds so be it.

I ask what I think is a decent dollar for my birds as everyone knows and don't give "Discounts" so I have future birds to judge but by the time I cull, cull, cull, I am lucky to have the birds buy their own feed. But you know what that's just fine with me as it's not about the money but the love of the hobby. If I got what my birds were worthper the dollars put in including putting out the first dollars for excellent stock and feed, I and my hubby would be living in paradise. I would assume that I am asked to judge all over North America because I have taken the time to excell as best I can at a hobby that is true to my heart. In case you have not noticed this hobby is in trouble on a whole because of the urban lifestyle vs. rural and if it means giving the odd person a $10.00 discount it's worth to help draw good people into the Hobby.

I too wish that we could all get what our poultry are truely worth dollar wise but the market will bare what the market will bare.

Nuff said
Heather

Dear Rat,

You must have a big shovel to dig yourself this big of a hole. Let me put this in short for you since you don't understand our understanding of what you understand of what we understand about your understanding. Do you understand? So far today you have called our P.O.A.A. club a bunch of thieves that are somehow sneakily cheating "honest, hard-working producers" out of their rightful earnings, thereby also insinuating that all of us buyers and sellers this weekend were economic imbeciles. You went on to insult one person's flock only to suck up when you were called on it. The sheer fact that you use so many words makes it sound that you are just talking to be heard-its tiring even to read.

I'm sure you will have a lot to say about how we could have possibly misunderstood your understanding. To make this easy I will concede the following:
1. You have a better understanding of agronomics than we understand, so much so that we will never begin to understand your understandings.

2. You can type way more words than any body else.

3. You do not like P.O.A.A dealings at the sale. I would tell you not to come to our sales anymore as it is a free market( <--economics term ), but as you have stated, You Weren't EVEN THERE! This isn't about the economics or the sale at all- it's about using the most possible words to make the least possible sense.

Great comment Heather "Viczoe".

Barryk

Very well said Heather
Thank you

.

Dear Rat,

Thank you so much for making my point. From the people I spoke to at the sale, as well as what I have read here, people that were there are happy with the prices. You who were not seem to expect more. Were we selling your birds? Are you out money somehow? What is your emotional investment here? Don''t answer that, please...the questions are rhetorical.

By the way, the commonly accepted spelling is capiche, smarty pants. Italian words rarely begin with a "K", but I didn't know this was going to turn into a linguistics debate.

I have a new word for you: "flaming"...from the post-modern usage for one who makes inflammatory comments on public internet forums in order to create controversy. You may be good at raising birds (frankly, so are most on here), but your comments have certainly "burnt up" what was a pleasant thread this morning.

My congratulations.

Barryk

Why dose subject A(rat) care so much that subject B(Everyone else) is happy with the good prices they are getting and did get for their birds in TODAYS MARKET! not 10 to 15 years in the PAST! so in this case I think Subject A is just upset that others are happy!Also I just have to say WOW!!! GO BARRY!!!

The situation today is defintiely ver different than that of 15 years ago, and far far different from 25 years ago. I remember going to the Agricom show and other shows in Alberta way back when. It was easier then to find a purebred bird than now. Back then there was a thriving show bird scene. There were shows, there were breeders, there were newbies, there were experienced fanciers. We have been brought down to one, possibly two shows. Newbies now have to go to hatcheries to get thier first birds or to try out breeds to see what they like. There is nolonger a large base of purebred fanciers that can support the higher prices. People who know what they want, who are looking for something very very specific will always be willing to pay a high price for something if they truly WANT it. With out the grass roots base of new show bird people, the demand for these birds will remain low, and so will the average price.

It is a different world. The population no longer lives on farms, they do not have the opportunity to own a little flock. The likelyhood of a quality purebred flock is even lower. It is the same with dogs. A purebred dog with health clearances is $800, but the crossbred designer dog with no history of parental health clearances is $1200. The dog show people have "elited" their way into the predicament they are in today by excluding newbies and grassroots.