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Swollen backend on my BCM hen

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Dan Smith
CynthiaM
BriarwoodPoultry
harrop'shens
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1Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Swollen backend on my BCM hen Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:11 pm

harrop'shens

harrop'shens
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I am wondering if she broke an egg inside her or something. Her backend is almost dragging on the ground! Around her vent looks like runny scrambled egg. Can I do anything to help her?

She is my only Black Copper Maran hen Crying or Very sad

Any advice?

2Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:32 pm

BriarwoodPoultry

BriarwoodPoultry
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She might be egg bound? Is she straining to pass an egg? She needs help right away if she is!! Warmth, warm butt bath to try to help the egg out, etc. Good luck!

http://briarwoodpoultry.weebly.com

3Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:38 am

CynthiaM

CynthiaM
Golden Member
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Jen, I am thinking that your hen may be in the advanced stages of a condition called cloacitis, vent gleet. I have posted a link here, see if this is what your hen may be displaying. I think one of my hens may have this as well, but is not displaying the vent gleet, so is in the beginning of the condition. I need to figure out what to do too. Anyways, good luck. I think the stench is the most obvious when the condition is very bad. Uno has spoken of this before, maybe she will chime in. Good luck, keep us posted, hope all goes well, and with that have a great day, CynthiaM.

http://www.birdhealth.com.au/bird/chick-fowl/ventgleet.html

4Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:01 pm

Dan Smith


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Less than a week ago I had a similar thing. I had a Blue Copper Marans hen struggling to pass an egg with contractions left and right. Also with the egg stuck near the opening it doesn't allow her poop to pass so she can become toxic real soon. She showed signs of waist oozing out of her back side and her featheres were wet looking in the but area. I waited until the next day which I regret but I then held her bottom area submersed in a 5 gallon pail of hot water and massaged around her vent while I sat on a chair but that didn't do much and I then rubbed Vasoline around the edges of her vent and again no success but I could see the end of the egg so I cut it with a utility knife and then I gently applied pressure on the sides of her vent and the egg white came shooting out and then the broken yoke and then I could see her egg shell so I grabbed the edge of it and pulled and the complete crumpled shell came out. I put her by herself in a large dog crate with reduced food and water and also put her on antibiotics and so far she is doing really well. The idea of reducing her food intake is to send a message to her brain to stop laying eggs. She has never had this before so I think that it is a good idea to stop laying eggs for a while and maybe the problem will rectify itself. In 12 years of chickens I have never had an egg bound bird except for my favorite Barnevelder who died of being egg bound but the autopsy showed that she had an internal infection which caused the area around where she passes an egg to become swollen and not allow an egg to pass through . Good luck.

5Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:28 pm

harrop'shens

harrop'shens
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Well, I don't think she is egg bound. I am wondering if it is egg peritonitis or some other infection. She is so swollen it is scary. The warm bath didn't help, the massaging didn't help. I can't feel any eggs inside her just tons of fluid. She is trying to push but not hard. She is resting in a cat carrier in my kitchen. The swelling goes from her vent are up between her legs to her chest. She was eating and roaming around fine again today and none too happy to be caught or given a bath. She still has a lot of fight in her!

I will see what tonight brings but I am thinking that I may have to humanely cull her tomorrow if she hasn't improved. Sad I just feel sick and helpless. I am going to give her some Rescue Remedy to help her rest. This is so disheartening.

Here is a picture of her swollen backend.

Swollen backend on my BCM hen IMG_9362

6Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:38 pm

Dan Smith


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If you feel that she has an infection then why wouldn't you give her an antibiotic as oposed to killing her. I would put her on Neoclor a dual antibiotic. One for respiratory and the other a full spectrum.

7Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:42 pm

harrop'shens

harrop'shens
Active Member
Active Member

Can I get it from a vet without making an appoint? I would so that tomorrow if I can get it. Vets around here don't know much about chickens.

8Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:32 pm

BriarwoodPoultry

BriarwoodPoultry
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Nope, doesn't look egg bound. But, being as bald as she is could be contributing to your perception of her swelling too. TO me it looks a little big, but bald bottomed girls always look more bulgy in the wrong places then they looked when they had feathers. I wouldn't cull either, I would separate her, give her some rest, good food and antibiotics (probably most anything broad spectrum) and see how it goes. The warm water is probably not bad for her, make sure she's dried off before she goes back outside if that's where she's spending the night. Just some more ideas to try before you knock her off. Can't hurt. Smile Even super booster in her water might help a little, you can get it from farming supply stores. You might not be able to get what you are after from the vet (they are often bound by laws with their antibiotics, the same way human pharmacies are), might have to go to a farm supply store.

http://briarwoodpoultry.weebly.com

9Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:02 am

Dan Smith


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I get my Neochlor from UFA or COOP Feeds. It is a powder that you put in their water. Good luck.

10Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:19 am

CynthiaM

CynthiaM
Golden Member
Golden Member

I think that everyone is trying to tell Harrop's Hens about an egg bound chicken. This chicken is not egg bound. She has that condition that I spoke of that ends up with the secondary manifest of vent gleet. I am pretty sure one of my hens has this, my birds looks similar to Harrop's, but she does not have as much of a distended belly as her hen, nor is YET displaying the oozing discharge from the vent, but I am sure will. I need to study the act of how to repair this gal by the following information that I have copied from the link that I put on the forum. Obviously no one read that link, or they would not be giving information about this chicken being egg bound. She is not egg bound, it is an infection.

Jen....please pay close attention to how you may be able to help this bird. But by the sounds of what I have read, when the vent gleet is manifest, that is seriously advanced and the hen may not make it. I don't know. I hope things can be rectified. I have learned something today and now I am armed with knowledge too. That hen picture looks very similiar to mine. The loss of the feathers on the bottom of the bird is identical to mine, but again, mine is not as bad.....

I have taken the liberty of copying and making that link more available to others to read. I know that going to links that people put on the forum can be very annoying and just "an extra" thing that others don't want to do. If you want to see the pictures that are spoken of in the quoted part below, then go to the link, it will show the pictures. I did not copy the pictures to the post. My wishes for things to be well, Jen, but I am thinking that it is too late. I may be too late for my poor hen too, wish I had known more before yesterday to today, sigh. Hope this may help you out and others too. With that, have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

Vent Gleet
by Dr Rob Marshall
Wayne Ingleton wishes to know about "that disgusting disease Vent Gleet that plagues us all at one time or another. He has acquired a female that has this disgusting, stinking white discharge oozing from her vent. The problem is that she is a very good female and I would like to cure her so that she can be used in the breeding pen without fear of spreading this disease through the rest of the stud. What causes this problem? How is it spread from bird to bird? What can be done to cure this problem?
Introduction
Vent Gleet literally means a slimy matter oozing from the vent. It is an old expression used to describe the symptoms associated with a condition called cloacitis (an infected cloaca). There are several possible causes and different infections associated with a cloacitis which means the treatment used for Vent Gleet will vary according to the underlying cause and particular infecton. The underlying causes of the condition are complicated and in order to gain a better understanding of Vent Gleet, knowledge of the function and anatomy of the cloaca is required.
The cloaca (meaning cesspool) is a three chambered structure that is located immediately inside the vent (anus) of the chicken and is an extension of the large intestine and rectum. The cloaca appears as a bell shaped dilation at the end of the rectum. It is the emptying place for several systems, the digestive, urinary and the reproductive tract and is an evolutionary development allowing birds (and some mammals) to urinate, defaecate and lay eggs using a single external opening (orifice).
The part of the cloaca that receives the food excrement (coprodeum) is the largest and is situated towards the head end of the structure. This is the part of the cloaca that allows the chicken to withhold excretory action and to retain considerable volume of excrement in the cloaca without relief. You will have seen this effect when roosting hens leave the nest and produce a very large strong smelling dropping. This ability is beneficial for breeding success as it enables the hen to brood upon the nest without leaving it for a long period of time. When a bird is deprived of water or is chilled, constipation may also occur in the coprodeum and produce signs of cloacitis ("soft bloated belly", sudden onset of dry feathers, and pasting of the feathers around the vent). This part of the cloaca is seen in the advanced form of Vent Gleet when the entire vent presents as a red swollen and often bloody mass.
The part of cloaca where the egg and urine enter is the smallest part of the cloaca called the urodeum. The end part of the cloaca is called the proctodeum. From the proctodeum, the food excrement and attached urine portion are passed directly to the exterior through the anus as a well formed dropping .
Each chamber is separated from the other by a complex array of membranes that act like valves allowing the bird to produce a dropping where the food excrement (dropping) and urine (white cap on dropping) are separate from each other. A healthy cloaca is responsible for the passing of a round, tight, well-formed dropping that is capped with a neat white urine (urates) topping. This type of dropping is a reliable sign of good health in chickens.
In a healthy chicken the cloaca keeps the urine and dropping (food excrement) separated from each other preventing the dropping from contaminating the urine. During a stressful period, the tone and function of the cloacal membranes are weakened allowing droppings and urine to mix together in the cloaca and preventing the normal recycling of water back into the bowel. This situation results in the less frequent production of larger and more watery droppings. This type of dropping indicates the chicken is experiencing stress and its health is failing. The conditions within the cloaca become unhealthy as stress has the effect of increasing pH which impairs its function and predisposes the entire cloaca and nearby organs especially the rectum and uterus to infection. It is infection associated with an original stressful factor and a rise in Ph levels in the cloaca that causes the symptoms of Vent Gleet.
Vent Gleet is therefore the end result of a stressful episode which alters the pH of the cloaca predisposing it and associated organs to infection. Consequently, Vent Gleet is not a contagious condition although the underlying stress factor may cause illness throughout the flock. As well, Vent Gleet should be considered a condition of circumstance and not a sign of inherent weakness in an individual bird.
Early Symptoms of Cloacitis (Vent Gleet)
Early symptoms of cloacitis (Vent Gleet) often go unnoticed. However, there is a far greater likelihood of curing Vent Gleet when treatment is initiated when these early signs are first noticed.
• Sudden loss of feather colour and shine.
• Pasting of vent feathers (see photo 1).
• Soft Belly. The abdomen will soften and bloat.
• Lack of vitality and postural changes (see photo 2).
• Birds are still eating at this stage.
Treatment administered at this early stage of cloacitis is usually successful. The aim of treatment is to counteract the effect of stress (i.e. acidify cloaca), stimulate immunity, control secondary infections, identify and eliminate the stress factor.
Treatment of Early Stage Cloacitis
1. Crop feed with Emergency First Aid Treatment (40mls ER Quick, 1ml Gel Formula, 2mls liquid calcium) twice daily for 2 days to counteract the effects of stress and acidify crop.
1. Wash the vent feathers and remove any accumulated droppings from around the vent area.
2. Instill 3mls warmed Quickgel solution into the vent and then massage area to reduce pH of cloaca and help break up constipated mass in the proctodeum (photo 3). This action should produce a dropping or a large hard constipated matter of food and urine excrement (photo 4) within a few minutes.
3. Examine the droppings microscopically to help identify the type of cloacal infection (bacteria, parasite, fungus or yeast).
4. Move bird to heated area and provide fresh food.
5. Acidify drinking water with citric acid (Megamix 10mls per litre) and energy supplement (Quick Gel 2mls per litre).
6. Administer metronidazole tablet (100mg tablet per kilogram body weight) and penicillin-type antibiotic (50mg tablet per kilogram body weight) twice daily for 4 days.
7. Return to flock as soon as possible.
8. cull birds that do not respond to treatment within 4 days.
9. Treat the flock with Quickgel for 2 days to reduce the effects of stress.
Advanced Symptoms of Cloacitis (Vent Gleet)
Without early treatment the cloacal inflammation worsens and causes severe discomfort and straining symptoms that are quickly followed by the more advanced signs of Vent Gleet. These are:
• Typical offensive odour
• Soiled vent feathers and slimy discharge coming from vent area.
• Straining to defaecate.
• The excrement is voided frequently and is foul smelling.
• The entire vent becomes red swollen and often bloody and distorted in appearance.
Treatment of Vent Gleet
Outlook is poor when advanced symptoms of Vent Gleet have been present for more than 2 days. Treatment is similar to the above treatment for early cloacitis and is directed to cleaning up the vent and adjacent regions, providing emergency first aid treatment and treating the infection in the cloaca.
1. Crop feed with Emergency First Aid Treatment (40mls ER Quick 1ml Gel Formula 2mls liquid calcium) three times daily until the smell disappears and the droppings improve in consistency.
2. Wash vent feathers and remove any accumulated droppings around vent area each day using a disinfectant.
3. Instill 3mls warmed citric acid into the vent twice daily and then massage area to help evacuate fermented material in the proctodeum.
4. Examine dropping microscopically to help identify type of cloacal infection (bacteria, parasite, fungus or yeast).
5. Move to heated area with fresh food.
6. Acidify drinking water with citric acid (Megamix 10mls per litre) and energy supplement (Quick Gel 2mls per litre).4.
7. Administer metronidazole tablet (100mg tablet per kilogram body weight) and penicillin-type antibiotic (50mg tablet per kilogram body weight) twice daily for 7 days.
8. cull birds that do not recover in 7 days.
9. Treat remainder of flock with antibiotics that have been prescribed following the diagnosis of the exact infection(s).
Infections associated with Vent Gleet
The exact type of infection varies according to the origin of the cloacitis. The origin of cloacitis is either an acute stressul episode, bowel infection, hormonal related uterus problem or a combination of one or all of these problems.
Vent Gleet occurs most frequently in hens and is associated with malfunctioning egg laying behaviour. The outlook is good when treatment is initiated early. Vent Gleet occurs most often in hens following cold spells in July and August. A sudden cold spell or another type of acute stress (e.g. fright, injury, contaminated food or drinking water etc.) may interrupt the breeding hormones of hens and as a result infection within the cloaca enters the vagina and infects the uterus. Treatment success is unlikley in birds when Vent Gleet is associated with uterus infections. Outlook is poor when typical Vent Gleet symptoms have been present for longer than 2 days and infected hens are usually poor breeders following recovery. Intestinal parasites, nutritional deficiencies, contaminated food or water are the more likely causes when Vent Gleet occurs in hens between September and January.
Vent Gleet in male chickens is usually as a result of stress related cloacitis and often involves constipation. This type of Vent Gleet is more likely to occur during the heat of summer associated with heat stress.
Vent Gleet is often related to a combination of stress and a latent bowel infection when several birds of either sex are affected. Transportation and adjusting to a new home are conditions of stress that may activate latent infections in otherwise strong healthy individuals and result in Vent Gleet. Quick Gel is recommended to prevent Vent Gleet under these circumstances as it reduces the effect of stress and reduces the likelihood of cloacitis.
Prevention of Vent Gleet
There are several different disease processes that result in Vent Gleet (cloacitis) and it is necessary to identify the underlying cause of each if prevention is to be successful. Irrespective of the type of infection involved it should be noted that a stress factor that alters the pH of the cloaca is the root cause of Vent Gleet. Citric acid (Megamix) in the drinking water will help prevent Vent Gleet outbreaks when bore water or town water has high Ph levels (above 7.4).
Vent Gleet is not a contagious condition, but the underlying causes may affect the health of the entire flock and initiate Vent Gleet outbreaks. When Vent Gleet occurs in an established flock it may indicate contaminated food or water, intestinal or external parasites or a nutritional deficiency. Vent Gleet under these circumstances will be prevented by introducing a Nutritional Health Programme (see chart 1).

11Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:55 am

fuzzylittlefriend

fuzzylittlefriend
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I am a little concerned about the antibiotic dosing for the metronidazole and the penacillin type. It is really high and metronidazole can cause a neruological toxicity in dogs with overdose.

If you have a good relationship with a small animal vet they might be ok dispensing you some baytril. They can get a dose for avian treatment. It would be you strongest and best bet for treatment.

You can give the injectable form orally.

http://pauluzzifamilypoultry.webs.com/

12Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:12 pm

harrop'shens

harrop'shens
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Thanks you so much Cynthia. I am so glad you posted this link for me. It has helped me to understand a great deal not just with this chicken but with another from last year. I spent quite a bit of time last night reading about the vent gleet on your link and googling it some more. Now I understand that I lost my Silkie rooster to this last year. For this bird, some parts are not consistent with vent gleet and are confusing me like she has normal poops. When I gave her Rescue Remedy last night she had just had a nice normal firm poop. And since her bath last night there is nothing oozing from her, she is still dry and clean. The other strange part that is so confusing to me is that her comb and wattles are still bright red and she is alert and not acting sick in any way. She is enjoying the attention and being in the kitchen, quietly cooing to us. She has devoured a section of watermelon and some scrambled egg too.

It is like she has a water balloon in her belly, it is not hard at all.

I am going to email the poultry vet the picture and see if he can offer some advice as well. I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner Sad

13Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:00 am

CynthiaM

CynthiaM
Golden Member
Golden Member

I would like to hear if you get any responses from the picture to the poultry vet, please keep us posted on what transpires. Hope it all turns out well for the gal. Have a great day, CynthiaM.

14Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:33 pm

harrop'shens

harrop'shens
Active Member
Active Member

Sorry it took me so long to get back here. Had to take my son to Trail to get his cast off.

Her swelling has gone down a bit but not much. The vet advice was so detailed and informative. He thinks is it either an ovarian cyst or an internal lay, where a completely formed egg gets deposited in the body cavity. Either way there is nothing I can do for her other than surgery and there is no guarantee with that either. Antibiotics won't help with this type of malady either. She was so happy to live in our kitchen and be spoiled with treats and love. We put her back in with the other birds last night and she was happily roaming free this morning. The vet said she may go on for a long time like this and since her combs and wattles are still bright red and she isn't showing any signs of stress, to just let her live out her life roaming with her girlfriends. I really appreciate all the helpful advice that I received here. Cynthia, I am so glad to know about vent fleet and to know that is what my Silkie died of. Now I know what to look for and how to help it. So greatly appreciated!

15Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:35 pm

CynthiaM

CynthiaM
Golden Member
Golden Member

Oh my goodness, well, you are welcome. I am sorry to hear of this and hope that all is OK eventually, you really need to keep us posted on how things go, pleeeeeze, I, for one, would really like to know. Good luck. Have a most wonderful day, CynthiaM.

16Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:55 am

crazybarnlady

crazybarnlady
Member
Member

thank you Cynthia for posting about vent gleet! I have one just today come down with this, washed her down tonight but now I have a game plan for the morning. Just a note about the baytril reccomendation above... my veterinarian looked up baytril and found that it goes straight to the egg production centre so that if you treat a laying hen with it you can never use her eggs again.

17Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:03 am

viczoe

viczoe
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Baytril is a very heavy duty drug and should not be used willy nilly. We tend to use antibotics to much with thinking about the consequences.

Heather

http://www.triple-h.ca

18Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:50 am

CynthiaM

CynthiaM
Golden Member
Golden Member

Harrop's Hens, what happened with the hen? Is she recovered and doing well? What do you think it really was. Have a most wonderful day, CynthiaM.

19Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:22 pm

harrop'shens

harrop'shens
Active Member
Active Member

She is doing very well, thanks for asking Cynthia. All the swelling is gone and some of her feathers are starting to regrow. It is a complete mystery! I think it might have been an infection of some kind that ran it's course and disappeared. She still isn't laying eggs but then again half of my hens are on strike right now too!

Sorry it took so long to return. I just started a full-time job filling in for a friend and life has turned completely upside down!

20Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:35 pm

chickenjo

chickenjo
Member
Member

I have had a hen do the same.. I thought it was egg bound but am pretty sure it wasn't.. I gave her a butt bath, but it didn't seem to help.. I just left her for a few days and it cleared up.. I just had to put an egg bound hen down a few days ago though.. Sad .. Sometimes they recover and sometimes not.. Life and death.. the balance on a farm..

21Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:48 pm

harrop'shens

harrop'shens
Active Member
Active Member

Well this girl is growing her feathers back finally and looking really good! I have no idea what she had but I have a couple others with it now too. It seems to come and go.

Hope she starts laying again!!

22Swollen backend on my BCM hen Empty Re: Swollen backend on my BCM hen Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:19 am

CynthiaM

CynthiaM
Golden Member
Golden Member

Hmm, weird, I thought I added to this, but maybe it was a different thread about something similar. Jen, I had a buff orpington gal, one of my three year old ones, who had this kind of thing happen. She cleared up, her feathers grew back, but....this was weird. As time went on, she seemed healthy as could be, but her legs became splayed. Hmmm..hard to describe. She still had a very soft and big belly, but looked good. As time went on her legs became more spread apart, she looked like a duck. She got to the point where this area became larger and larger, soft feeling. She still was not ill, but never laid an egg again. Time came and went and still, getting worse with the splayed leg thing. It was like something was pushing the legs apart. She finally got to the point where she had great difficulty getting into her hen house. I let her go to, what I hope, is a nice place. I could see no other option for her. She is happy now I believe, with no issue of jumping and getting around. When I picked her up on that last day, I was shocked beyond shocked at the weight of her. She was not fat, and we know fat weighs little. She was probably double the weight that a bird of her size should have been. I personally, after having done some research, think she had an ovarian cyst, or many. This would cause the pushing out of her legs as the cysts grew and the gained weight too, me thinks. Not sure, but I think that is what she had. I think that they might even have been the size of a softball or two or three, who knows. If I had the guts or gumption, I would have taken her apart and looked inside, but I don't. Watch for gained weight and legs that get pushed sideways, like there is something in that belly below to push the legs apart. Just something that I saw and have a little experience with. Nice to hear that the hen is doing well. Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM. She never laid an egg after the first notice of a very dirty back end, which I had cleaned up very nicely.

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