Responsibility

[quote=
First question. What is the definite line between a "puppy mill" (back yard) breeder and a "show ring", CKC breeder?

HI I think I would rephrase this question to read
What is the definite line between a "puppy mill" (back yard) breeder and a Responsible breeder?

Someone who has more dogs than they can count and keeps them in crowded outbuildings, constantly breeding them and handing you a puppy and taking your money without health testing, without providing a pedigree or guarantee. Not even taking your name is not a responsible breeder.

I have had up to 2 litters a year. My dogs live in the house with me. I would not have them if I had to keep them in a kennel building. Boxers need to be part of the family. They are crated when I am at work because they would get into trouble if they weren't. I show and health test. I screen homes. If local I go visit with a couple of dogs to see how the people react to them. They get to see my dogs temperments in a strange environment. If not local I see if someone can do a home check for me. I have a written contract, with a 2 year written replacement health guarantee. I have replaced older dogs and dogs that died from things not in the guarantee. I will take back any dog bred by me at any age if the buyer cannot keep it any longer. I am there if the new owners need help or has questions. I stand behind what I produce. My puppies are raised in my dining room they are the center of attention in this house. I hope that makes me responsible.


Next question to same people. Do you or have you ever culled puppies that did not conform to the standard? If not, why?[/quote]

The only discqualification in my breed is having more than one third white coat color. When my Madison had her first litter it was by c section. There was one female a pure white one. The vet asked if I wanted it and I said no. They put it down. That was the only one ever. I would place any whites after that in pet homes. Our national breed club had a code of ethics that stated that whites could not be sold. They have since changed the code to allow breeders to spay /neuter and sell whites.
I have not had a white puppy in years and years because I changed my breeding practices. To get white puppies you have to have 2 flashy parents. Parents with white on the face and neck etc. I haven't bred a white for over 9 years because I use a plain parent to a flashy one.. By doing that you have plain and flashy pups but no whites. I have had to cull pups with cleft pallets and hair lips over the years but not because of color. Not since that first pup. Not every pup in a litter is destined to be a show dog either. Show prospects are sometimes placed in pet homes to see how they will grow out. The new owner cannot fix or use the dog for breeding. I pay to show it, I pay for all breeding expenses and I give the owners a puppy out of the dog if it is used for breeding. If the prospect doesn't turn out it is already in its forever home and it will be culled from the breeding program by being fixed and be part of their family. All pet puppies are sold on a spay/neuter contract. I dunno is that running off at the mouth? Sorry. I hope I answered the question in there somewhere.
Geri

I would hope that anyone who has misfortune, would feel that they could bring it up and ask for advice without being judged. If a person comes with their troubles asking for tips and advice, they are trying to do better. If they fear reprisal, they may never ask and then nothing changes.

Neglect from poor planning and ignorance sometimes happens. When I started keeping birds, there was nothing like this place for information. You learned as you went. I wish I could say I never did anything stupid. Fortunately, my experience can help people avoid some of my mistakes. But they have to ask.

Look what happens when I am away on Teachers' Convention. I almost miss a hot topic!

Here are some random thoughts. To me, deciding about abuse and neglect is something I have no problem deciding ofor myself. I have enough empathy for my animals that either abuse or neglect would never happen. It would kill me inside if I thought for minute my animals were in distress and I would remedy any distress immediately.

I realize that not everyone has the same sensitivity or empathy that I have and the line between abuse/neglect and proper care is not a thin one. It is very very wide. I tend to steer clear of judging others for three reasons. Firstly, who am I to say what is right or wrong? I am no expert. Secondly, any pictures or description of abuse or neglect of animals tortures my thoughts. I cannot stop it all so I will leave that unpleasant job to others. I am a coward in that respect and I admit it. I have never witnessed abuse or neglect so I can't say what I would do if I did. Finally, professionally, I am far too worried about abuse and neglect in the children I see every day to spend even more time dealing with the same in animals. I would be mentally broken if I took that on as well.

Now on the subject of culling. I cull my chicks for health, no other reason. I have purposely chosen breeds I can eat if I have too many roos. This is the choice I have made because I don't think I could cull for sex. However, I would never condemn anyone who does. It is their choice. I have made mine. I will grow out every bird, keep the roosters I like, sell others and eat the rest. I am not in this hobby to make money and can afford the choices I have made. People keep poultry for many reasons and it is not my place to make their ethical judgements for them.

I have culled puppies. It is the hardest thing I have ever done. I cried the whole time. One was born with its intestines outside its body. The other had a cleft palate. I popped them inside a ziploc bag, removed as much air as I could and placed them into the freezer. If anyone knows a better way, please start a new topic. I am all ears. The only cosmetic thing that disqualifies a Schipperke is color. Definitely not worth culling for even thought there are many in my breed who would crucify me for even producing a colored Schip. Like I know the genotype of my dogs before I breed them any more than anyone does? Sheesh!

So for me it comes down to this. Which is worse? Pain or death? Humane culling cannot even be compared to abuse and neglect in my books.

Sue

Sorry Heather.

Fowler wrote:I would hope that anyone who has misfortune, would feel that they could bring it up and ask for advice without being judged. If a person comes with their troubles asking for tips and advice, they are trying to do better. If they fear reprisal, they may never ask and then nothing changes.

Neglect from poor planning and ignorance sometimes happens. When I started keeping birds, there was nothing like this place for information. You learned as you went. I wish I could say I never did anything stupid. Fortunately, my experience can help people avoid some of my mistakes. But they have to ask.

^ Well put Fowler. I agree 100%. I also don’t think there’s a single person on this forum (or any other) who can say they haven’t flubbed something up at some point with their critters. Being responsible IS being accountable in my books.

Fowler wrote:I would hope that anyone who has misfortune, would feel that they could bring it up and ask for advice without being judged. If a person comes with their troubles asking for tips and advice, they are trying to do better. If they fear reprisal, they may never ask and then nothing changes.

Neglect from poor planning and ignorance sometimes happens. When I started keeping birds, there was nothing like this place for information. You learned as you went. I wish I could say I never did anything stupid. Fortunately, my experience can help people avoid some of my mistakes. But they have to ask.

Totally agree. I was a kid when I first got into birds. This was back in the 70s. I knew nothing. I had to rely on books and those were pretty much non-existent or too expensive. I had caged birds die on me for things I thought I was trying to do right, but I simply didn't know. I would cry my eyes out.

Well I am not perfect and guess what I made a few mistakes in the beginning as keeping fowl is totally different from keeping you average house dog. As long as people learn and rectify theose mistakes and don't continue to have the same thing happen year after year, esp. when they have sought advice is what learning good animal husbandary is about.

The sad truth is that most people get the animals the animals before they have the ideal set up. I try to always encourage people to get an good setup in place before adding the birds as it is easier on everyone as it is you are always adding on in most cases so try to make your first coop something that will keep your birds warm and safe.
My neighbour is adding a chicken coop this year and is going to have benefit of my husband's expertise from years of building fowl housing, lucky woman as she will end up with something that will work great for her and when my not so perfect girls get there they will have a perfect home for a small layer flock.

So don't put the Fowl before the set-up as it does not work.

Heather

Oh Heather, I so agree! It is so easy to buy an animal and comparably difficult to be ready for that animal at home. I find many people do not think things through and buy on impulse. That's OK with a new purse but disasterous with a new animal.

Sue