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Western Canada Poultry Swap » Discussions » Advice Needed » Wry Tail Woes

Wry Tail Woes

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Schipperkesue
Blue Hill Farm
6 posters

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1Wry Tail Woes Empty Wry Tail Woes Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:42 pm

Blue Hill Farm

Blue Hill Farm
Golden Member
Golden Member

A week or so ago one of my nicest pullet's tails started pointing to the side. Now she is holding it like that all the time. Neutral I know a little about wry tail from my reading (hereditary + supposed recessive trait = not a good candidate to breed from), but how can wry tail show up at such a late age? This pullet is already 28 weeks old. Or could it possibly be some kind of vertebrate injury? I did have an escapee cockerel rough the girls up around the same time. Is there any way to tell for sure? scratch I kinda feel like I'm grasping at straws, but not willing to throw in the towel yet - especially if it isn't really wet...any advise/insight/thoughts are most appreciated, thanks.

2Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:11 pm

Schipperkesue

Schipperkesue
Golden Member
Golden Member

Does she live in a triangular prism-shaped tractor or come up against a slanty wall? My Mille rooster held his tail like that until we put him in a straight walled home.

Sue

3Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:25 pm

Blue Hill Farm

Blue Hill Farm
Golden Member
Golden Member

No Sue, she's one of my barnies and lives in the rectangular mini-barn. So well I can't say the walls are perfectly straight, they aren't slanty either. The roosts are an L shape out from the walls with empty space on either side. And she always lays her egg in the bin-shopping nest box with plenty of room because there is no top. Thanks for the ideas though. I may just have to face the facts... Sad

4Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:37 pm

CynthiaM

CynthiaM
Golden Member
Golden Member

I don't know a whole bunch about the wry tail thing, other than it is bad and that that bird should not be used if you want to have for breeding. For egg laying, well, that is just fine. It is a trait that has a very strong propensity to be passed along to offspring. I don't know that much, as I said, but I was told by a professional to not use her in the breeding program.

I had two of my hatchery stock buff orpington hens with that. As my intent is for breeding the breed, I did not keep those two hens. They did not have this their entire life that I know of. I only noticed it when they were about a year old and I wasn't into breeding the breed at that point in time anyways. They may have had it earlier, but I did not notice it.

As far as I know, this trait is only something one should worry about if the birds are going to be used for breeding, if they are just layers, don't let it worry you. I have some really good pictures of wry tail that I took of the two girls, but I will only put them in here if someone requests it, I can though. So if anyone would like to see the pictures, please indicate so. Have a most wonderful day, CynthiaM.

5Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:40 am

Swamp Hen

Swamp Hen
Active Member
Active Member

Pictures are always good Cynthia! Lets see 'em if you please!

6Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:20 pm

Blue Hill Farm

Blue Hill Farm
Golden Member
Golden Member

Good post on wry tail (with pics) for those interested.

http://poultrymatters.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=376&view=next

My pullet does not have as drastic a slant as the ones pictured on the link above, but there is a definite lean to the left that is noticeable now. This morning I sat down with her in my lap and had a good feel of her tail – the muscles on the left side do seem more pronounced than the right side, though that could also be from swollen tissue if she injured it somehow. Also, I couldn’t tell if the spine was straight or not through her feathers. So I don’t know…I just think it's weird she would develop it this late. Or that I didn't notice until now. I look my birds over ALL the time and am 99% postive she did not have this issue a few weeks back.

Cynthia, pictures are always welcome. More than welcome in fact. Smile I'm a very visual person and learn best from what I can see. I wanted to take some pics myself, but forgot I lent my camera to my mom, so mine will have to wait. And yes, wry tail is considered a serious defect as both parents would have to be carriers, even though they might not show it.

Wry tail is an autosomal recessive. This means it is carried by both parents.
Let us call wry tail 'wt' , and the normal lack of wry tail, 'Wt+'
This bird is wt/wt
Both parents (if they looked to have normal tails) were Wt+/wt
Mating them together will give three combinations
Wt+/Wt+ normal tails
Wt+/wt (twice as many) normal tails but carrying the recessive wt gene
wt/wt wry tailed bird

-- Taken from BYC: http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/414864/please-tell-me-the-genetics-of-recessive-genes-specifically-wry-tail


IF what I’m seeing is really wry tail (and I’m not positive on that at all!) than this particular pullet should not be used for breeding. That will really, really suck. The silver lining of the dark cloud should it come to pass is that she would still be good for laying eggs (of course) but she would also be an invaluable tool for test breeding other birds to find and eliminate potential carriers. Exclamation

If you're breeding your chickens in a controlled way, one thing you can consider is keeping a chicken who expresses an undesirable, recessive trait you're concerned about.

1). You can use this hen or rooster in test matings to determine if other chickens carry the trait. If the other bird is a carrier, some (theoretically 50%) of the offspring will express the trait (the rest will be carriers). If the other bird is free of the gene, none of the offspring will express the trait (but all will be carriers).

Once you have found a breeder free of the trait, you can proceed happily knowing that their genetic material is "safe".

2). If you're doing conservation breeding, remember that it's only "gene pair ww" which is the problem (in our example). All the chicken's other genes may be ok, and could contribute some valuable genetic diversity. To "suck" the good genetic material out of your problem chicken, mate it with a non-carrier, and then mate the children either with A. one another or with B. a non-carrier. 50% of the grandchildren from A, and 25% of the grandchildren from B, will be free of the problem. You can test by breeding back to the grandparent...

Yes, this approach will use up a lot of elapsed time (as birds grow to breeding age) and generate a lot of chicks, but it gives you a degree of certainty that you are breeding the trait out and not just breeding around it. –- exop from BYC



Good thing we like chicken dinner around here. What a Face

7Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:33 pm

appway

appway
Golden Member
Golden Member

I am not a expert but it does sound like she was injured
if you do decide to not keep her I would take her as I know your birds and I love them all

8Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:06 pm

Blue Hill Farm

Blue Hill Farm
Golden Member
Golden Member

Thanks appway. That's very nice of you to say. Smile I will definitely keep your offer in mind.

And yes, an injury is quite possible. I guess the best thing to do for now would be to see if she heals or out grows the tilt, then go from there. Hopefully I won't have to wait until after her first molt to know.

9Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:36 am

CynthiaM

CynthiaM
Golden Member
Golden Member

Time for pictures, as there was interest expressed. Knowledge is a very powerful thing. I had two buff orpington hens, they were 2 years and a bit old when this was identified, lovely egg layers, but did not cut it for the breeding group. I did not have the room to have "only" egg laying chickens, so I opted to not use the birds at all. There was only 2 of the 6 hens that displayed this, they were hatchery stock. They are no longer here. As young pullets in these two gals, I don't ever recall seeing any tail that shifted to the side, but then, honestly, never ever really looked, cause I never had heard of anything odd with a tail being bent to one side. I mentioned to a friend one time when she was visiting about the tails being held to the left. The immediate response from her was, that is wry tail. Oh brother. So many things to learn. I had never heard of that, just like so many other things that I am hearing and learning about lately that have rocked my socks, like duck feet, brachydactyly trait (chicken stuff, not referring to the duck species -- and oh, by the way, no trait of brachydactyly here, doubled checked all cochin toes, that was a huge concern), and I know there will be more faults that I just need to learn about, eeks....
Wry tail is something that is not good in the breeding of birds and there have been links in the previous posts in this thread and good information, listen and learn. Anyways, here are some pictures of the discovery of what the crooked, held-to-one-side tail is, probably not an injury, but the wry tail thingmabobthatdoesthejob. have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

Wry Tail Woes Wrytail10

Wry Tail Woes Wrytail9

Wry Tail Woes Wrytail1

Wry Tail Woes Wrytail2

Wry Tail Woes WryTail4

10Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:26 pm

viczoe

viczoe
Addicted Member
Addicted Member

Very good pictures Cynthia of a bad herditary fault, Thanks for putting those up.

Heather

http://www.triple-h.ca

11Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:46 pm

Blue Hill Farm

Blue Hill Farm
Golden Member
Golden Member

Knowledge is indeed powerful…it can also be painful. Sigh.

Thank you for posting these pictures Cynthia. They show 'wry tail' very well. My pullet’s tail doesn't seem as bad in comparison, though it is still there, just more slight. Did you happen to process these girls? And if so, do you recall if their backbones were crooked?

12Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:37 am

CynthiaM

CynthiaM
Golden Member
Golden Member

Flicker Chick wrote:Knowledge is indeed powerful…it can also be painful. Sigh.

Thank you for posting these pictures Cynthia. They show 'wry tail' very well. My pullet’s tail doesn't seem as bad in comparison, though it is still there, just more slight. Did you happen to process these girls? And if so, do you recall if their backbones were crooked?

Oh, ya, I am finding out how painful knowledge I am gaining is and its getting worse, smiling that big smile.

Oh no, those gals are very valuable, even though they have a bent tail, they lay huge and beautiful eggs and are non-stop layers (except when moulting). I gave those two hens to someone that did not give a hoot if they had a crooked tail or not. They were not interested in breeding at all, just wanted some nice, big egg layers -- and that they got. I'm sorry, well, no I'm not, really. Why would I end the life of a hen that lays such beautiful eggs, has some beautiful personality goin' on, and is just well, lovely, except for wry tail issues. She to me is a valuable person in so many other ways Cool , yep, they went to live out the rest of their life to provide happiness and eggs to another person. Sweet gals that they were, worthy of living on and on and on. Have a beautiful day, CynthiaM.

13Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:08 am

Blue Hill Farm

Blue Hill Farm
Golden Member
Golden Member

Growing pains, eh. I know them well.

Ah ok, thought I’d ask in case you had. I was only curious about how the internal skeletal structure of a chicken with wry tail would look, if it’d be any different or not. No matter. I’m glad your gals went to a good home where they are valued and appreciated. Smile

14Wry Tail Woes Empty Re: Wry Tail Woes Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:49 pm

CynthiaM

CynthiaM
Golden Member
Golden Member

Just thought I would add a comment to this very old thread. I don't know if that wry tail affected the skeleton of the bird. But I do know that it did not affect them one little bit in any way and they were wonderful temperament and wonderful egg layers, whomping big eggs! Just should not ever be used in the breeding program. Tough choices, but important to make these choices if one is serious about trying to raise birds with as little faults as possible. Haven't seen any more of that wry tail in my life. It was only those two girls. Have an awesome day, CynthiaM.

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