Bird Guarentee?

Since people take topics off track on other fourms, I will ask it here, and hopefully have a good debate.

Just wondering what the public thinks : How long do you guarentee your birds for?

When you sell birds to people, how long do you guarentee them for - health wise? I would say about 2 weeks is sufficient, as most diseases/sickness's only take a couple weeks to do their damage, and if anything is going to happen it would be within that time frame, perhaps a month maximum?

What do you think?

Great question, I have never offered a guarantee, no one has ever asked. I would think someone like yourself would have to when you are selling such high quality birds, two weeks sounds like a good amount of time.
So many factors to think about and so much could happen in that time. Wow, hard question to answer.

Wow that is a hard question to answer.
Birds unlike other animals can pick up disease so quickly, hard to say if it came from your place or their place?
I have never offered a guarantee, I have only ever had one issue and it was with a girl last year, I ended up giving her back her money for the $4 1 year old hens I sold her. It was just too frustrating to deal with.
In your case with your high quality and high priced birds I would possibly offer a one week guarantee. If they did have something at your place you would think the stress in transit would cause issues before the one week was up.
I dont think people should have to offer guarantee's, especially when they are truthfull in the sale and do not sell sick birds.

For day old chicks it would be no guarantee at all. They are hatched in a controlled environment, never come in contact with any older birds, and are delivered, shipped or picked up and sold as healthy. I think that is the best we can do, and the best that could be asked of us.

Oh and one more thing I was thinking. If I did offer a guarantee and the people came back at a week and said the birds were sick I would need proof. Pictures, vet reports, etc.

Not hard at all, if you sell birds you know may be sick then you should be honest enough to look after the situation, if you want me to be more specific then i will be ( just let me know ). I would never sell a bird that was questionable and would hope that sellers would be honest,things like this can be settled in the courts, when they are very bad.

Hidden River wrote:Oh and one more thing I was thinking. If I did offer a guarantee and the people came back at a week and said the birds were sick I would need proof. Pictures, vet reports, etc.

If the seller knowingly sells birds and admits it then what, he or she should also be responsible for the vet bills as well.

I agree Pops, I guess I am naive, I would never intentionally sell a sick bird, but how do you know, and how do you know if it doesn't handle the stress of travelling very well, or picked something up on the way, so many variables.

Pops I guess it would depend on what the vet reports said. If it was an issue linked to me then I would probably refund the birds. As for the vet bills that is not something I think could or should be refunded, it really does depend on what is wrong with the birds I guess as far as what all should be compensated for.
It is a tough situation really, many factors involved. I personally would never sell a bird that was questionable. If they were ill and made a full recovery it would really depend on what they were ill from?

This is one reason I have a strick policy on only buying day old or hatching eggs. And why I really encourage people purchasing from me to do the same.

Makes sence, HIdden.
Day olds are really delicate, and I think that a certain loss percentage is expected. As for adults, I would play it by ear a bit, but a week is lots. You cant guarantee how the bird is handled or treated or what it is expeosed to after it leave you.

If I was offered a one week guarantee I would be thrilled with that seller. But a guarantee doesnt have to be money back. It could be a partial refund, or a replacement bird or maybe it would work better to offer them hatching eggs.

With birds it is a hard call.

This is a very long story and for now i do not and will not get into the details about it,but I have so many better things to do than try to make false claims, The seller is trying to make people believe that he never got paid and that is an out and out lie, I can show anyone the money order for over 4,000.00.

I don't have an answer based on my experience but know I've read from more than one source that there is an recommended isolation period when bringing home new birds, pullets or adults, before you expose them to your current flock and whatever that time-frame is, I personally, would consider guaranteeing them for that time-frame and that's IF, I was going to offer any guarantee.

I have never heard of anyone having a guarentee on their birds. Would make sense but I think that it's the buyer's responsibility to recognize a bird is sick before they buy it and a seller's responsibility to not sell a bird they know is sick.

OK when you pick up the birds and you box them that is one thing BUT when the birds are delivered to you already boxed and or shipped, what then ?

This is a tiny bit off but if I sell you a bird for 2500.00 and I have sold lots of them, and there is an underlying problem That you find out I new about, what then? Now i never bought a bird in this agreement for that amount BUT the amount of money for the birds was over 5,000.00.

wow sounds like this a hot topic for some folk. It is good to hear everyone's viewpoints on this matter.

Interesting. As a buyer I wouldn't expect a 'quarantee of health' in fact, I'm not sure you really can. You might decide to replace someone's stock, depending onthe circumstances. BUT I have always thought it was really bizarre that lots of the dog folks 'guarantee health' when you buy a puppy.

HOw can you? There are a zillion problems that could happen that have zero to do with how well you took care of that puppy -- you know genetic issues.

For example, we ended up with a border collie that at about 6 months I think had that shoulder issue (can't remember the name) that required surgery (not cheap surgery either) Regardless, it never occurred to me that the breeder was at fault. There wasn't and isn't any way for them to have predicted to guarded or prevented the issue. We let them know, because I believe there is a genetic predisposition but that's all.

I guess what I am saying is you sell animals based on you truly doing the best you can: breeding, raising, vaccines etc and sell them as such.

I think guarantees are not useful items. Animals are products off the shelf that went through a manufacturing process that only allows x number of defects.

I think the word guarantee itself is wrong. It should be warranty. You can guarantee that is a chicken, but you would warranty its health.

When I sell a dog there is more money wrapped up in that then in a chicken of course. They are not as fragile as a chick or chicken, and if there is a disease they tend to show up withing 5 days. So I "warranty" general health (except worms and stress diarreha" for reasonable vet fees up to, but not exceeding, the price of the puppy. I then warrantee hips eyes and heart to two years, do my best to breed clear parents and make healthy puppies, and hope that nothing goes wrong (geneticly or environmentaly) for that time. That is based on "industry norms" but if something happened outside of the warranty I might cover the dog, contribute to the fees or replace the puppy. BUt that is at my discresion.

I cover enough to be "fair" but will bend over backwards to help someone who was a good client, good home, and did things right. BUt it is my call. I guess that is where a warranty gives a baseline and boundery to it, but I can always do more for them.

Chicks and chicknes are just so much more fragile, and usually not nearly the expense. It is hard to compare a $4 chick and a $400 puppy.

So much can go wrong with chicks. Some people would complain over one dead chick out of 50.

What do you do when it is a big order and everything dies, some right away and the rest within a week or so.

Hard to call.

Still, our Tibetan mastiff was 1500 dollars and what we looked for was a breeder that did all the right checks - hips etc. I think that's all you can reasonable ask a breeder to do, due diligence. And still we ended up with a dog that at a year old developed thyroid issues. And as soon as we told her, she contacted every other owner from that litter and asked that they test their dogs for thyroid issues. Every dog came back with some level of thyroid problem. She stopped breeding that line. I don't think you can guarantee those sorts of things.

For me it's not about price, it's about it being an animal with genetic outcomes being a bit of a crap shoot (not always, but still).

But I do like your warantee rather than a guarantee, and you describe what you are fairly sure the puppy wouldn't get because you have taken pains to ensure health. I like that. See for me that says here is a breeder doing due diligence.

I couldn't ask for more.

That is genetics for you. You can test and do your best, but sometimes things still happen.

But back to birds, they can be rather fragile, and get sick easily, unless it is that super nasty uncatchable crossbred roo, he will live forever and survive anything.

I like HIdden's idea about chicks, then I could choose to help out a good client, play it by ear. As for adults, I would hope that if something was wrong that the seller would do something, but then again, I expect there to be a certain amount of trouble. I have bought adults and had them die within the week they were dead. I was sad, but id never occurred to me to go back to the breeder/seller and ask for compensation.

This is a difficult topic and I see that it really depends on what kind of bird you are selling. I have no answers but thanks for giving me something to think about now that I am starting to sell chicks and adult birds.

I have to agree with others on this. As a buyer, I do not expect a guarntee of anything. I rightfully cant. There is so much that can go wrong right after the bird leaves the 'farm' that you cant guarntee or warranty that it is ok or will be ok. It depends on the buyer for a large part of that. If someone knows what they are doing then the survival rate is higher then if someone doesnt. You cant warranty a bird and have someone pick it up, go to walmart, go shopping for two hours, and then decide to take the bird home and say, wait, it is sick or dieing, or dead. As a seller you cant know what people will do.

Having said that, my DH and I were discussing this very thing today. We agreed it should be "at our discression". If a bird turns up sick due to something from here, then I would likely refund the purchase price.

I deal mostly in cattle, and do the same with them. But a prime story fomr a dairy farmer friend of mine(sorry, I know, off topic):

A lady purchased a refreshened dairy cow that was currently being milked. She took it home and called a week later saying the cow wasnt moving much and was giving no milk. Took four hours of talkin to the lady to find out what was wrong. She wasnt watering the cow. The cow lost it's calf due to neglect and was dry.

You cant warranty against stupidity. I believe the best answer to the question is, talk to the buyer and see if they have questions or atleast know the basic care of the animal (bird) you are selling.

Sorry if I was too off topic.

pops coops wrote:This is a very long story and for now i do not and will not get into the details about it,but I have so many better things to do than try to make false claims, The seller is trying to make people believe that he never got paid and that is an out and out lie, I can show anyone the money order for over 4,000.00.

Woa, Pops Coops! No one mentioned your name in this thread - chill out. Can someone just ask a simple question without you getting all fired up?.. quilty conscience..

Anyways, back to the thread, lots of really good points. I myself dont expect a warrenty/guarentee on anything I purchase, make wise decisions is what I figure.

But to an extent, such as day/week olds just to make sure everyones happy in the transaction, I will cover any unexpected loss's ( Not if their cat ate them though, haha)

TysExotics wrote:

pops coops wrote:This is a very long story and for now i do not and will not get into the details about it,but I have so many better things to do than try to make false claims, The seller is trying to make people believe that he never got paid and that is an out and out lie, I can show anyone the money order for over 4,000.00.

Woa, Pops Coops! No one mentioned your name in this thread - chill out. Can someone just ask a simple question without you getting all fired up?.. quilty conscience..

Anyways, back to the thread, lots of really good points. I myself dont expect a warrenty/guarentee on anything I purchase, make wise decisions is what I figure.

But to an extent, such as day/week olds just to make sure everyones happy in the transaction, I will cover any unexpected loss's ( Not if their cat ate them though, haha)
No one mentioned yours either

No one mentioned yours either

Haha, I started the thread bud.

i think i agree with everyone here on this one...

especially the "i can guarantee it's a chicken" sorry that made me laugh

i dont expect a guarantee/warranty, but then i expect the seller to be honest in their dealings too....