Coccidiosis - needing advice and feeling a little emotional

I type this with a feeling of heaviness and would appreciate people's experience or knowledge on the subject. I'm tired, stressed and worried.

I have a number of small flocks I am growing out, probably totalling 130 birds right now. Once all the cockerels are old enough for selling or butchering, I will be down to about 70 birds with plenty of space in 4 good sized coops. In the meantime, I am getting a big dose of reality of what my 'enthusiasm' has created - much work and more stress although I know in the end, it will all be worth it.

Anyways, unfortunately I experienced my first outbreak of coccidiosis over a month ago along with at least 4 other poultry owners in the area. Two flocks I treated with Amprol and seem to be coming along well with no deaths. The third flock I treated with Sulfaquinoxaline 19.2% even though it said DO NOT USE FOR LAYING BIRDS, which mine all are. I knew nothing about the product and was doubting the efficacy of the Amprol at the time when I used the sulfa product. Well this 3rd flock that I used the sulfa product on has had a secondary outbreak five days after final original treatment and I lost two birds last night. I have not re-treated because I feel so uncomfortable about the fact it said not to use on laying birds so I thought I would just observe the rest of the flock hoping the two that died just had weaker immune systems but now I'm not sure if I'm imagining it or if I have one or two more who's tails are down and flattened, the beginning stages of the look of them declining in health.

My questions are:

Why do they say not to use the sulfa product on laying birds?

What risk is there by me re-treating them with the same product?

Should I use Amprol instead this time for that same flock?

What lengths do I go to in regards to cleaning the coops where flocks have been infected? Do I start scrubbing and disinfecting walls and floors and feeders or just change the litter up and wash the feeders and waterers? What about all the coccidiosis outside the coops on the ground and in the grass that can't be disinfected?

And lastly, when is it safe to introduce new young birds to these flocks?

CF, I don`t have a lot of experience with cocci, but I will try to help a little.
Are you using a medicated chick feed to begin with?

I would think when they say not to use on laying hens, it means adult hens that are laying now. They don't want anyone eating eggs from hens on the drugs. I don't think they mean young birds that will eventually be used for layers. I hope someone sorts me out if I am wrong.

Cocci is everywhere and wild birds carry it too. It has to be in warm, damp conditions to multiply and cause trouble. Most chicks can handle it and develop ways to combat it if given medicated feed and kept dry.

It is a nasty killer and people that have it bad on their place often have to keep chicks off the ground, in floored brooders, until they are much older.

I hope someone will answer the questions you have that I was unable to. Sorry you are going through this, it is a horrible thing and often when you spot it, it is to late for the poor little things.

I agree with Coopslave, they don't recommend using Sulfaquinoxaline in layers because of the drug residue in the eggs (a lot of people are allergic to Sulfa drugs but any drug used for layers would have a withdrawal period). You can use Sulfaquinoxiline no problem in young pullets who are not yet laying. You could also use it in hens who are laying but need to respect the withdrawal period for this drug.

I would use the Amprol on your flock that is showing a reinfection. The active oocysts get pooped out in abundance and when reingested from the litter cause the big disease outbreak. I would definitely clean out the coop. The oocysts don't survive long in dry, but love wet, warm and moist. I would be silly clean for a couple of weeks, treat them with Amprol, give them supportive nursing. Warm mashes are good, yogurt and even a heat source to help them recover. Molasses in water has a purgative effect and will help them poop some of the little buggers out. use 1 TBsp/ gallon.

Good luck

edited to add:
I'm sorry to hear of your stress and worry. Sick chickens are not fun at all. One thing I found out last year with my grandiose breeding plans was how crazy easy it is to grow your chicken hobby beyond the fun zone. My job is stressful enough so I had to think long and hard about finding some balance. I came to the decision to scale back my breeding plans to a slower steady pace until I retire. Hope this gets better for you real soon.

I would really like to offer my advice, but this is something I have not yet fully experienced myself in my dealings with poultry raising.

From reading some articles, I would gather what Coopslave has said in reference to not using it on laying hen is a caution as to not use it on hens that you collect eggs from, a precautionary measure to not pass on any thing to us humans through consumption of eggs. It might also be a caution to the health and vitality of the hens. Could not get a yes or no on that.

I think the Amprol would be the way to go....

Anyone have a more direct experience with this sort of thing????

Is there a way to perhaps get your birds on to new grounds for the time being?

Sorry to hear of your stress. I have been there too. Cocci is the poultry disease causing the largest losses worldwide annually!

I wrote an article on coccidiosis which may help, its in my signature. We were advised to bleach/disinfect and then paint any raw wooden surfaces. Cocci hide in wood and when it gets wet they multiply. making sure waterers cannot spill onto shavings is a big advantage to prevention. It is everywhere and more a management issue than anything. The answers on the laying hens seem reasonable and usually if one medication doesn't work, try a different one. With antibiotics in humans, it is not recommended to prescribe the same antibiotic again within 9 days of the end of the previous course becuase they are just not effective. I assume the same probably applies to other meds too. I have had amprol not work then given sulmet and it did work. I read other have has the opposite happen, I would think it may depend on the strain on cocci. I'd use the amprol now if I were you.

I hope you fell better and don't be discouraged. It's great to see you are observing your birds and looking out for them and that is the best you can do!

Thanks so much all of you. Makes me want to cry. Just knowing you understand and are offering support helps. I must keep moving here but will respond later.

Not sure if I am repeating anyone but hard to read it all on my phone.
Sometimes there is enteritis that mimics or follows cocci, try treating them with an antibiotic like polytonne a super booster, something with penicillin.
You can do the amprol in their water and the superbooster if you like but I usually do just the penicillin.
Hope that helps.

^ I didn't know that Hidden. Do you add the super-booster with antibiotics at the same time as the amprol or alternate days?

And sorry to hear you’re still dealing with cocci Chicory. It’s a horrible parasite and extremely stressful for humans and birds alike. Unfortunately it seems to be all too common. Everyone’s given great advice and I really don’t have anything to add. I just wanted to offer my support too. I hope this next round of treatment wipes the cocci out for good. Hang in there!

ChicoryFarm, we are experiencing a very warm and moist time there, your area is not that far from mine really. It is moist, and extremely warm. I had an outbreak of cocci about 2 weeks ago, with my chicks that are about 7 weeks old now, they were about 5 weeks then. I knew it was cocci, because there was one stool that looked bloody. fortunately these babes are housed in a separate pen, but the same house as some more mature birds. That first sign of blood in the feces, I immediately began a program of amprol. i have that on hand. I do not like to medicate, but I know the weather, warm, very moist and a most premium place for the nasty to grow and multiply. The babies were on a program for almost a two week period. There was only that one bloody stool, no more. I think I caught it in the nick of time before it became an major epidemic. As said, I do not like to medicate. But when you are pretty certain that something wicked this way comes, you must act. I get the sense that you are doing all that you can and wish you the best.

As was indicated by a couple of friends here. When they speak of "do not use on laying hens", they are speaking of birds that are producing eggs, for consumption. Not all people will obey the guidelines of withdrawal and medication and would, probably not realize, that it takes some time for the medication to be released from the body of the bird. hence the eggs sold, could be contaminated with something that some human beings may be allergic to. I totally 100% believe they speak of hens that are producing eggs. Not chicks that will one day be laying eggs, for a long time yet. Get those other problem children on amprol. it really is a very useful drug when it comes to combatting coccidiosis. I stay on the use of amprol, sulphamethazion (spelling????) I am not too sure of, but I think may work, but not really as well. Good luck, we are all wishing you well, and the stress to lessen, as the malade subsides. CynthiaM.

From another website

Here are two antibiotics you can use safely with the Coccidia treatment
Bacitracin (antibiotic) in drinking water at the rate of ½ gram per gallon for 4 days, combined with Amprolium to control the coccidia; vitamin supplement following treatment hastens recovery

And

Tetracycline (antibiotic) for 10 days and Amprol = 5 days Amprolium

It may also be a good idea to incorporate yoghurt into their diet (1 to 2 tablespoons per day mixed with their feed) , as any antibiotic causes diarrrhea, and the yoghurt helps the natural flora and fauna to return the bowel to normal stopping or decreasing the diarrrhea effect of the antibiotics

All of the Coccidiosis medications thin the blood of the chickens, this is why it is always a good idea to follow up the treatment with a multi vitamin, especially vitamins A and K, A is to rebuild the birds immune system, and K to thicken up the blood after the medication

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I have lost two barred rock chicks (10 weeks about) and this morning a welsummer chick (about 10 weeks two, maybe older) that I thought was doing ok. It's exhausting sometimes.

To all of you - thank you so much for your input and concern. I no longer feel alone and in the dark about what to do. At the risk of being long winded, I wanted to reply individually to each of your thoughtful responses but realized I'd probably bore you all.

Some thoughts though in response to some things that were said.........

I've kept my coops very dry with pine shavings and raking every morning and will continue to be mindful when carrying water in and out - thanks for that reminder.
What caused it? Three things possibly: in my attempt to avoid the medicated starter (only because it doesn't look like real food to me compared to the organic which is basically cracked whole foods) I vaccinated them with a coccidiostat from the Canadian Poultry Consultants in BC here but the dosage was for a thousand birds at a time, so I tried to figure out what an appropriate amount for 25 - 50 birds would be and did not feel confident about my approach at all. Then a week or two later, I brought in more chicks (unplanned), didn't have vaccine, so ended up putting everyone on medicated starter..........possibly nullifying the vaccine in some of my birds. This happened twice. Also, overcrowding may have been an issue, as my 'plan' to accommodate my birds was long term - big coops, lots of free ranging space, etc, but I didn't seriously consider the 'grow out' phase and have been scrambling to hurry and build and provide. Lastly, CynthiaM, it is interesting to me that an unusual number of people in my area and yours are having outbreaks and I do wonder if the unusually wet Spring/Summer has had something to do with it.

So, in the end, I have lost two birds - easters eggers, no less important than my pure breds but I was not planning to breed them, so in a way it could have been worse in more ways than one. I just feel bad that my over exuberance for chickens and being so naive was most likely the cause.

Lilfarm, yes it's true. I/we laugh at our chicken addiction, as some of us call it but when it stops being fun and our over enthusiasm overrides the well being of the birds and our sanity, it stops being fun. I think why it spread to 3 flocks was because I was so overwhelmed and busy feeding and watering and medicating so many flocks, I wasn't changing my footwear and therefore transferred it from coop to coop.

Hopefully I'm out the other side of this now. Thank you, thank you, thank you for coming to my side and helping me out.

Dawn