pullet with goofy legs

Help! One of my pullets has turned up with what seems like partically paralyzed feet. I've separated her from her brothers and sister (who all seem fine). Any ideas for treatment?

Nora

Are they houses outside? Could have gotten frozen if so.

Wonder if is is Mereks?

Hey, I bet it IS Merek's. It hasn't been cold enough for the little girl's feet to freeze. Too bad!

I guess we isolate her and hope for the best.

Sure wish I could get that vaccine....

It is such a drag -- I don't know much about Marek's except that it's difficult to purchase the vaccine and, even if you do have it, to ensure that it is administered effectively.

At least, that is what my reading has turned up. Anybody vaccinate against Merek's?

Are you sure you want to do that? Once you start they say you can not ever stop. I've been advised, after losing some of my precious buckeyes, to accept the losses yearly and breed any survivors back into the flock in order to create a mareks resistant flock. IMO vaccines are the result of a mismanaged industry, useful in the long run only to those with huge indoor operations, quota and all. Just my opinion though, it is a personal choice. Personally I don't feel up to taking responsibility for the health of every chick hatched down the line, every not immune unvaccinated chick sold. I'd rather Do it the hard way and in the end have a product that can stand the test of time and hardship.

If you want, PM me with your email address and I will forward info that was given me by one of the govt. Poultry disease experts.

reneggaide wrote:Are you sure you want to do that? Once you start they say you can not ever stop. I've been advised, after losing some of my precious buckeyes, to accept the losses yearly and breed any survivors back into the flock in order to create a mareks resistant flock. IMO vaccines are the result of a mismanaged industry, useful in the long run only to those with huge indoor operations, quota and all. Just my opinion though, it is a personal choice. Personally I don't feel up to taking responsibility for the health of every chick hatched down the line, every not immune unvaccinated chick sold. I'd rather Do it the hard way and in the end have a product that can stand the test of time and hardship.

I LOVE your thinking. Thank you!

My husband and I are trying to get our clan food self-sufficient for what we predict is a looming food crisis, and we are making a lot of decisions based more on sustainability rather than efficiency. Better to suffer losses now, when they are not so damaging.

Sadly, it is my only two little pullets that have fallen ill, so I will be relying on my mature hens' next sets of chicks to develop that Merek-resistant group.

Is it the pullets you got from me? They would not have mereks, Im pretty sure they were vaccinated for it at the hatchery ?

DoubleSSRanch wrote:Is it the pullets you got from me? They would not have mereks, Im pretty sure they were vaccinated for it at the hatchery ?

No, no. These are young birds I hatched here.

And I am SO glad your birds won't get it. They are absolutely beautiful. I would be very bugged indeed if they became ill.

Still wondering what to do about the Merek's in chicks...anybody else have an opinion?

Oh I was scared there lol

As for what to do, I dont know of any treatments other than to breed away from it. I geuss its actually more common than most people think.

Nora, I am sorry to hear of this. Please take some time and do a search on marek's on this forum. There have been many topics with discussion on the symptoms of it and others' experiences, these could be very helpful to you. Sounds like marek's though. Have a great day, CynthiaM.

CynthiaM wrote:Nora, I am sorry to hear of this. Please take some time and do a search on marek's on this forum. There have been many topics with discussion on the symptoms of it and others' experiences, these could be very helpful to you. Sounds like marek's though. Have a great day, CynthiaM.

Yes, I have been researching. I work with some poultry experts and they have advised me to vaccinate against Marek's. Apparently there is a freeze-dried version, so I will go that way.

After losing birds to mareks this year and realizing that the only birds affected by the disease were those that I Vaccinated, I will no longer continue to do so. It's extra work that didn't seem helpful in my situation. I know breeders that do and that's everyone's right to choose. If you start to vaccinate, you aren't obligated to vaccinate all your birds from there on out, the vaccine itself is pretty safe that way.

Also, Google photos of mareks birds, they look and act in a particular way I found. Good luck, sorry to hear of your troubles.

I will never vaccinate against marek's. I had two buff orpington, 16 weeks old or so, which contracted this dreaded disease. Both had been vaccinated for marek's by the breeder down in the Lower Mainland of our province. Both had to be culled, as they were going to eventually be trompled alive. Their sibling, a pullet (the culled ones were a pullet and a cockerel), came through this, and never showed any signs. I do not believe in the vaccine, but that is just a personal opinion. As said, I believe that once you begin to vaccinate, you will always have to vaccinate. The strong birds build up an immunity. In my chickenyard, only the strong survive. I cull any that are weak in any way, and that begins just after the birth. You will make your own decisions, but that is what makes this a great world!! Good luck, hope it all works, have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

I just wanted to put my opinion in here.
Vaccinating is not like giving antibiotics, it is basically giving the animals a small dose of the diesease, their bodies mount an immune response to the vaccine, giving it protection from the disease. There are different forms of Mareks, some may not be covered by the vaccine, but by giving the vaccine you are giving them a chance to protect themselves.
So in saying that once you vaccinate you always have to vaccinate just isnt true. You are just giving them a head start on fighting the virus. Basically what you are all saying by not vaccinating is to produce a "Natural immunity" which is not much different in my opinion than vaccinating, I just find vaccinating less risky.

This spring any chicks ordered by hatcheries were vaccinated, my first 2 batches I hatched I did myself, the rest were not vaccinated. I had 3 birds out of 100's die from what looked like Marek's, never sent them off so never knew for sure, but these were all UNVACCINATED Birds. I think some birds just have weaker immune systems than others, and those are the ones that get hit the hardest, weather they were vaccinated or not. If they have a poor immune system the vaccine is not going to work either.

I am not saying it is wrong to do either way, but I am saying the thought of having to vaccinate every year is just not true.

Hidden, that is true, that is how a vaccine works. What is missing with a vaccine is the resistance that is passed from parent to offspring. A vaccinated bird does not pass any resistance to its young, a bird that has never shown the effects of mareks, when it has been present, passes that on to its offspring.
I do not vaccinate. I choose to breed resistance into my flocks. Just my choice. I don't think you ever get immunity to mareks, but you can breed in a strong resistance to it. The main trouble I have had in the past (in Australia I had a breed that was very susceptible to mareks) was the hatches from vaccinated birds. That is when I got my biggest losses. Just because they had no resistance to pass on. The survivors from those hatches were better and the next season would show no losses.
I think that is were the comment 'if you vaccinate, you will always have to vaccinate' comes from.

That is interesting about the adults that were vaccinated not passing immunty to the chicks? Never thought of it in that aspect.

I have spoken to a few poultry experts this week and have decided that I am just not willing to accept the losses. And Canadian Poultry Consultants has an excellent way to get the vaccines easily. So that's my decision.

Good for you Nora for having made that decision. It is a difficult one, and one I have struggled with too. I know it feels good to have weighed your pros and cons and have a plan in place. I've gone from being sure I would never bother with Mareks vaccine, to feeling absolutely sure it is the way to go, and now I'm waffling again.

I find it so upsetting when young chicks die, and the feeling that it could have been prevented. Yet in many other ways I also practice the 'tough love' approach, and I do also believe in breeding towards natural immunity.

At this point I'm actually thinking I might take a middle of the road approach. While many of the chicks I hatch will have to acquire their own natural immunity, I just might hedge my bets by vaccinating a couple of my largest hatches. I have raised hatchery vaccinated chicks along side of my own unvaccinated in the past. I have never had any issues to speak of anyway... 2 chicks I raised last year may have died from this disease, or it may have been something else. But that works out to a loss of less than 1%. So not a big issue at this time, anyway. But I'm always aware that a big break-out can happen when you least expect it.
I work in Community/Public Health. This could be part of my pro-vaccination stance!

if you dont do vaccination you may loose a few birds but they normally are the weakest birds in the hatch. not birds you will be missing in the breeding pens. we lost 3 chicks in the 4 months of hatching. all together i hatched close to 175 chicks, and all three of these were not mareks. i lost 2 to mareks about a month ago. both birds that never were thriving.

Hidden River wrote:I just wanted to put my opinion in here.
Vaccinating is not like giving antibiotics, it is basically giving the animals a small dose of the diesease, their bodies mount an immune response to the vaccine, giving it protection from the disease. There are different forms of Mareks, some may not be covered by the vaccine, but by giving the vaccine you are giving them a chance to protect themselves.
So in saying that once you vaccinate you always have to vaccinate just isnt true. You are just giving them a head start on fighting the virus. Basically what you are all saying by not vaccinating is to produce a "Natural immunity" which is not much different in my opinion than vaccinating, I just find vaccinating less risky.

This spring any chicks ordered by hatcheries were vaccinated, my first 2 batches I hatched I did myself, the rest were not vaccinated. I had 3 birds out of 100's die from what looked like Marek's, never sent them off so never knew for sure, but these were all UNVACCINATED Birds. I think some birds just have weaker immune systems than others, and those are the ones that get hit the hardest, weather they were vaccinated or not. If they have a poor immune system the vaccine is not going to work either.

I am not saying it is wrong to do either way, but I am saying the thought of having to vaccinate every year is just not true.

Well said,

Sadly a women has brought in three birds to be euthanized the last two nights I have worked. Today she brought in the last two of six birds. The very last was not showing any symptoms of mareks yet but the rest had. This was a closed back yard flock that she had hatched in June in a home hatch program of sorts. It was very sad she lost all her pets.

It's defiantly making me think about vaccinating next spring as birds hatch knowing it's in the area.

Anne

I think it was Mareks that took out half my Houdans this summer. Quite a blow, but I am looking forward to chicks with a natural immunity this spring. None of the other 6 breeds I had were affected.

Sue

Hidden River wrote:
Vaccinating is not like giving antibiotics, it is basically giving the animals a small dose of the disease, their bodies mount an immune response to the vaccine, giving it protection from the disease. There are different forms of Mareks, some may not be covered by the vaccine, but by giving the vaccine you are giving them a chance to protect themselves...
...I think some birds just have weaker immune systems than others, and those are the ones that get hit the hardest, weather they were vaccinated or not. If they have a poor immune system the vaccine is not going to work either.

I wonder if maybe the biggest difference between vaccinated birds and those with natural resistance is the speed of the immune response. When the birds acquire their immunity through vaccination the speed of the response isn't critical, because the threat isn't real (If I have my facts straight, vaccines are usually made from DEAD pathogens). But when unvaccinated birds are exposed to the virus, their lives depend on a quick immune response. So perhaps it is the speed and strength of the response that is passed on to the next generation as coopslave says. This is purely my own conjecture, not based on research.

So we did a post-mortem and found zero signs of Marek's. Turns out that her lower intestine was very inflamed. No idea why as none of the other birds are showing these symptoms. One was limping a bit but has since recovered...

I have definitely decided to vaccinate henceforth!