Selling animals for cheap for people who can't afford it.

Since I don't want to change the direction of the post 'Quit selling chickens' I realize that there is some overlap with my post.

I had a request from a single mom with 3 kids who wanted cheap/ free chickens. I'm struggling with giving or selling them for a low price because somebody can't afford it. If somebody is in that position can that person look well after the chickens for all their needs and work hard to make ends meet? Is this really helping them? Would it be better to give them eggs instead? I know that they will miss the joy of chickens that way but it feels the best for me at this point in my life. I'm interested to read about other opinions with respect to the animals, 'buyer' and seller involved.
Thank you!

A hard question. To me it is like people posting for free animals that you may no longer want and looking for a good home for.
If you have animals/ poultry what ever they have a value to them and if they can not afford to buy them, to me they can not afford to feed them or have a vet bill if they get sick.
Now if they were good friends I would give eggs too, but it still cost you $$ to feed your chicken's and I know that would help them more. If you were giving your chickens away free the ad would read Free hens, but I am sure no matter what price you put on them they were not free.
Mind a free chicken could also make soup if they could not afford to feed it. Also where would they keep them and keeping the chicken warm over winter , feeders, waterer's all cost

In the end you have to go with gut feeling.

I am a believer in creating opportunities for people as opposed to doing for them. I would check and see how she is planning to feed and house etc, as there is a lot of cost there. If she has obviously done her homework and this is an effort towards self sufficiency and healthy food for her kids then I would be inclined to sell or giver her some of my experienced hens as a starting point.

I have found over the years people do not
value what they get for free.
One suggestion is barter offer to exchange
some work or some other thing in exchange
for chickens.

wyandotte wrote:Since I don't want to change the direction of the post 'Quit selling chickens' I realize that there is some overlap with my post.

I had a request from a single mom with 3 kids who wanted cheap/ free chickens. I'm struggling with giving or selling them for a low price because somebody can't afford it. If somebody is in that position can that person look well after the chickens for all their needs and work hard to make ends meet? Is this really helping them? Would it be better to give them eggs instead? I know that they will miss the joy of chickens that way but it feels the best for me at this point in my life. I'm interested to read about other opinions with respect to the animals, 'buyer' and seller involved.
Thank you!

Having been on both sides of this fence, I have to say I agree--- if a person cannot afford the animal itself it makes you question if they can truly afford the care. I've been in this exact spot, and always remind myself that no matter how lovely an animal is for free-- or seems like a good deal, if I cant afford to look after it once its in my care, or feed it properly, then I need to just take a pass. (mostly the care. gosh I would love more riding horses, but dang it they take a LOT of work and money! so nope. not getting any, anytime soon until I can afford the appropriate bills that go with them. they are worse than children I swear for bills popping out out of nowhere!)

I think that an offer of eggs would be generous, maybe even trade a bit of "work" for them if you wanted --help clean the coop, collect eggs, whatever, and I will gladly pay you in eggs-- sort of deal. I love those deals! (and I think it makes both parties feel better about themselves, because its a worked for item, not just a free or charity item-- does that make sense?)
sure, sometimes my own personal cash flow is an issue -- I have lots of feed/grazing and can meet the animals other needs, but not the cash to buy it. working for it instead I think is a good trade then. case in point. I just posted about a generous gift of some laying hens to me. more of the story-- I was already feeding six or seven chickens that were past their prime and just ornaments (they no longer laid and had not for a very long time no matter what measures I tried to take!) so I had the means to feed the chickens, housing and grazing for them, and the know-how (which I think is just as important as the other things) to look after them. and I hated that they were free, but I made up for it in other ways. she refused money, so I took over baking and they are coming over for a supper (full of goodness thanks to the eggs! fresh pasta and an angel food cake, yum!) in my way of trying to repay them for the hens.

sorry for rambling, I am trying to remember where I was going with this? if your gut is telling you to maybe find another way to help her then you should listen. if you let her help you out looking after the chickens in exchange for some eggs for her family then both people win, and you can have some upclose time to see if she is ready for a little flock of her own.... maybe an arrangement like that would work?

I agree with most of what is said here... give a man a fish and you feed him for the day. Teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime.

I wanted to add a couple things though. There are people out there who use their cicumstances to get good deals, even if they may not deserve them.

One example is the sob story of how poor I am and cannot afford your prices and this turns out just not to be true. This sort of thing really hurts the people who DO need the help because once you have been taken in you are less trusting the next time.

The other example annoys me even more. I have adults contact me for eggs/chicks/birds and when I give a price they say, can you cut me a deal? My kids are in 4H! Now I am always willing to help out a 4H kid but when a parent uses their kid's 4H status to het something cheap for themselves, well that is just plain wrong.

Yikes. I would hate to be in your shoes, but understand your hesitancy completely.

This would be my thinking. Many single mothers struggle with poverty. When you have problems with money, stable housing becomes an ongoing issue. Single mothers at the poverty line are at risk of homelessness or near homelessness. Needing to leave one place suddenly to look for another means that owning ANY kind of animal makes it harder to move and drastically narrows her choices of places that will rent to her. Lots of landlords DO NOT want pets, let alone a small flock of chickens! Therefore, when this woman's life takes a sideways turn, the first thing she has to offload or abandon, will be the biggest liability and burden: the animals. If being a renter is her life situation right now, she is not thinking very clearly to ask you for chickens.

This situation looks a bit different if she is a single mom who OWNS her own place. Her physical location is a bit more secure, if she is able to keep up with the mortgage payments and cost of ongoing maintenance.

If you sell eggs at $3 a dozen and the minimum wage is what, $9 an hour? Are you really going to ask this woman to drive to your house, find something to do with her kids and work for 20 minutes to earn her dozen eggs? Would you ask her to shovel out the hen house for her eggs? MAny people (poor or otherwise) feel that handling certain chores, or ANY chores, is degrading. Having you say, well, here, take these eggs, but I'm going to need you to make yourself and your time available to me so that I'm not giving them to you for free...some people would see that as grovelling for their food. NOT saying that is the case here, just that the danger of it appearing that way exists. You have to be very tactful in how you say, I expect you to work for your supper.

If she has an obvious skill (master baker), it would be more tactful and perhaps better accepted to say, "I can provide you with 2 dozen eggs a week in exchange for a dozen muffins (or whatever) for Hub's lunches". IT gets eggs in her hands, food for her kids, preserves her dignity, makes her feel like she has something valuable to contribute, gives her the option to counter offer with some other barter instead of baking, it does not feel like you're lording it over her, and it allows you to feel like you have done something good which, I sense, is what you want to do.

If she is stable, and you are happy to part with the chickens, then give her chickens with the provision that you will take them back if she ever cannot care for them. If giving chickens does not feel right, then go ahead and give her eggs. Maybe if you have some little task that her kids could do and they can (gather dead sticks) for half an hour and you can pay them with eggs they get to eat, woo-hoo, they might feel important as heck! That would make her happy, her kids happy and you happy. Depending if you want little kids running around your place waving sticks in the air.

I was pondering this more, and then saw that Uno (once again) did post some more in depth thoughtfulness to what I was trying to express.

here is what I personally think I would do if this situation were me.

I would offer her a dozen eggs. Maybe she offers up some sort of services she can afford or feels comfortable doing, and then again maybe not.

If it were ME being given something, I automatically offer up my services to pay for the goods, whether it be some sort of baking or actual labor. no, it does not normally be dollar for dollar but the point is *I* am the one willing to put in a days worth of work for no matter how much the other side is worth (or many more days if the goods offered are worth that much!) I dont even think twice! and if I cant think of something off the top of my head, the next question out of my mouth is ALWAYS "How can I PLEASE repay you for this?? anything!" if they continue to say no, I say well I can do this or this or this... if the answer is still no (like my hen gift) then I will take it into my own hands and drop off a "gift" in return! but I try to make it a thoughtful one at least! like four loaves of bread to a family-- I mean really who doesnt love fresh bread??! I usually try to time it even, so that the bread is dropped off still warm, and with bags for wrapping and/or freezing (if they last long enough to be frozen! aha)

but if the person receiving the goods does not offer at least something in exchange, maybe that is leading back to the person that expects things for free and gives no value to the free things given??
so if she offers up something as some sort of payment, awesome, you can work out something together where no party feels degraded....

and if she doesnt, but asks for eggs again, I would say I normally sell them for $X but I know that maybe times get tough so I could make you a deal and sell them for X amount less (so say you sell them for $3, say you can sell them to her for $2.50. a deal sure, but you are NOT going to give them away for free. dollar amounts are just an example of course, I have no idea how much anyone sells their eggs for anymore...)

I'll gladly help someone out , but I see so many ads from people asking for this and that because they can't afford it etc etc and it always seems to answer it's own question .If you can't afford it then most likely you shouldn't have it !I ran into a teenager ( young adult ) one year in Winnipeg who stopped us and with a long face told us his story of how he had spent more then he should have and as he was in the Alberta University he needed bus fare to get back as he was expected to be in class in a few days .Sounded reasonable so we dug deep and gave him about twenty to thirty dollars ,change and cash , .Two months later he was seen ........still here ? I have never trusted anyone since then ! I'll buy someone a meal if they're hungry , give them a ride etc , but never anything that they can barter with or sell or cash

I think that if they could barter with something then sure but not give it away.

If she had said something along the lines of I can come up with $___, what could I get for that? That at least shows the possibility that she just isn't wanting free stuff just because. I agree, if people get things for free without a second thought and/or research of what other funds will be needed in the future, bad things can happen.

I do not think that saying "no" to someone asking for free anything is bad. If they cannot come up with something, anything, then they will not be able to feed or care for it without further burdening their family.

I have made this mistake and that was with me having money to buy it.

Help yes, give free when someone else asks for it, no.

I myself am not a rich man but do I love birds any less then the people who run farms or can afford to have so many birds as they want. Do I expect to get my birds for free I do not I pay the price asked without question but there has been times I have been given birds and eggs and I appreciate it very much so. I realize the work involved and the cost assoiated in raising such birds I have owned birds for about 25 years now. Just because I cant afford to pay 50 dollars for a dozen eggs doesn't mean I wont love my animal it just means I wont own more then I can afford to own and I will sometimes have to do without animals I love until I can find a means to own them. Do I give away birds I most certinaly do and when given the chance I sell them for cheap and I personally own cayugas, narrgassetts, embedens, royal palms etc. I don't look for the badside of people I realize there are people out there like me who are good people and they just love poultry and I try to think of it that way not of the bad ones that are in the world. just my 2 cents.

Jay, I do agree with what you said. I just don't like the people who just want for free and have no idea what is needed to keep them.

Does it really matter what a person pays for an animal or is it how the animal is cared for? Let's say I sell a $100 chicken to a rich family that has all the means to pay for the feed and housing but that does not mean the chicken will live a better and longer life. It may actually suffer! I feel everybody has the ability to love and look after an animal regardless of their financial situation.

Well Roots, I think it depends. (now there's a clear answer)

The question is not are rich homes better than poor homes. The question here is not about how well animals are loved. We're speaking of chickens, who rarely have a great quality of life anyway. Once they aren't laying anymore, it's the rare hen indeed who gets to live out her life until old age claims her. So at some point the buyer knows this chicken will meet an untimely death. Chickens, to most people, have a best before date.

Knowing this, knowing a hen is purchased for what she can provide (eggs) should she go to someone who does not value what she is about to deliver? Should she go to someone who is attempting to pay the rock bottom price, less than you are asking?

No! I say THAT person can eat fake eggs from a jar. We had spoken of showing charity and help to people in dire straights. But the average person spends more for a month of unlimited texting than they will for a hen. UNFORGIVABLE!

My personal favorite are the people who come, hat in hand, claiming financial hardship and hunger, and being kind hearted and caring, you give them a hen or two and later learn he sold those hens for $50 each to his neighbour. He pocketed the cash and laughed at you on his way to the bank, sucker!

The quality of care is not the issue here. The value of a chicken is. And the value of a chicken is too important to release her into the hands of someone who is only concerned about getting her as cheaply as possible.

I personally find the bleak outlook upon people a little appauling id rather be helping one good person even if it means I helped 10 bad along the way. I suppose a glass is half full kinda person. I believe in karma I suppose and on more then one occasion I have been helped by people when it comes to even chickens and I intend to return the favor in full at any chance I can get.

Bleak and realistic can be based on your experiences and are two different things when discussing this issue. There are all kinds in this world. There are givers and there are takers. I am a giver and absolutely adore meeting another giver. It is a marriage made in heaven and is nothing but positive for both sides. A giver meeting a taker can range from a short lived experience to one of those cases we read about all the time when unscrupulous people bilk others out of their life savings. I always wonder what happens when a taker meets another taker!

Appalling? I agree but in a different context. It is appalling when a good kind well meaning person is hurt by a cheat.

SoSharpSue, I couldn't agree more. Perhaps Jay gets the idea that I am a hard hearted cow and wouldn't give a crumb to a mouse. That is not true at all! Hub and I believe in helping and giving and have done so to our own detriment, often being called fools for helping people others would not help.

HOWEVER, there is a difference between taking a chance with someone who is down and out and dealing with someone who bluntly and pointedly is out to better their own position by asking you to drop your price.

As you say Sue, these two issues should NOT be confused. There are people who are down and out and there are people who are predators, always circling for that better deal, a way to get rich on someone else's nickel.

Furthermore, the people who truly need a helping hand are least likely to ask for it, unless they know you personally. As the original poster said, she was trying to figure out how best to help someone, help was her priority. But no one who helps wants to feel screwed over. So while we have to be helpers, we also have to protect our helping instinct from the people who would use us up and send us away jaded. When you give with a good heart only to find you've been taken advantage of, it can make your skeptical. Very few of us want to be martyrs to professional mooches who are very skilled at getting something for nothing. Needing help and being cheap are two different issues.

uno wrote:SoSharpSue, I couldn't agree more. Perhaps Jay gets the idea that I am a hard hearted cow and wouldn't give a crumb to a mouse. That is not true at all! Hub and I believe in helping and giving and have done so to our own detriment, often being called fools for helping people others would not help.

HOWEVER, there is a difference between taking a chance with someone who is down and out and dealing with someone who bluntly and pointedly is out to better their own position by asking you to drop your price.

As you say Sue, these two issues should NOT be confused. There are people who are down and out and there are people who are predators, always circling for that better deal, a way to get rich on someone else's nickel.

Furthermore, the people who truly need a helping hand are least likely to ask for it, unless they know you personally. As the original poster said, she was trying to figure out how best to help someone, help was her priority. But no one who helps wants to feel screwed over. So while we have to be helpers, we also have to protect our helping instinct from the people who would use us up and send us away jaded. When you give with a good heart only to find you've been taken advantage of, it can make your skeptical. Very few of us want to be martyrs to professional mooches who are very skilled at getting something for nothing. Needing help and being cheap are two different issues.

Well said.

I've always been of the opinion that if you can't afford to BUY the animal, you're not going to be able to KEEP the animal. I apply this to all species.

Example: if a person obtains a free or low-cost dog because they can't afford to buy one, then something happens and it results in $1500+ worth of vet bills, will that person be able to afford it, or will they allow the animal to suffer, or choose to end its life years too soon, because they don't have the money to fix what's wrong?

As a responsible animal owner, I have funds set aside in case of such emergencies - plus a whole lotta room on credit if it's something above and beyond the norm. I expect the same of anyone I sell an animal to.

I am a generous person, I will give you the shirt off my back if I think you need it (or at least my coat, no one wants to see me topless) - but I don't give away living things. There are too many factors that are beyond my control once an animal leaves my care, and I have this crazy idea that if you choose to bring an animal into this world by allowing your animal to reproduce, you hold some degree of responsibility for that animal for the rest of its natural life - even if it has been sold to someone else. I feel like if a person purchases that animal for fair market value, they will value its life more than if the animal was cheap or free - and my hope is always that they value the animal's life as much as I do.

.

^ What she said.

Ok, I am guilty of buying items at full price and giving items away for free. Matter of fact, I would rather donate an item to the Salvation Army instead of selling the item on Kijiji. I get great satisfaction helping the needy or not so needy and assume all donated items go to a home that the item will be cherished and appreciated. I guess each person has their own comfort level and mine is based on charity and karma.

Roots wrote:Ok, I am guilty of buying items at full price and giving items away for free. Matter of fact, I would rather donate an item to the Salvation Army instead of selling the item on Kijiji. I get great satisfaction helping the needy or not so needy and assume all donated items go to a home that the item will be cherished and appreciated. I guess each person has their own comfort level and mine is based on charity and karma.

and there is nothing wrong with that!! nothing at all! In fact that is how I am too, but it can also get me horribly taken advantage of too! and some of those people dont even try to be transparent about it either, which is even more disheartening

even though some days I feel pretty jaded against the universe, I still help whenever I can--- but I do tend to pay a lot more attention to the ones that extremely obvious and transparent in their intentions to just take advantage of me, and make a better judgement call when it comes to them. Karma has a way of making its rounds, and sometimes it has a way of showing its face when its least expected

Roots wrote:Ok, I am guilty of buying items at full price and giving items away for free. Matter of fact, I would rather donate an item to the Salvation Army instead of selling the item on Kijiji. I get great satisfaction helping the needy or not so needy and assume all donated items go to a home that the item will be cherished and appreciated. I guess each person has their own comfort level and mine is based on charity and karma.

We do this all the time Roots. We also buy from the Sally Ann as well. A donation to a worthy cause does not always have to be money, does it?

Since we down sized our house, we have given away so many things, "good" things, not broken junk. Lots of

teens/young adults got things for their first move out. Our kids got a bunch of things, sold some things

on kijiji, gave a bunch of real good things to the thrift store. Still haven't finished. Darn. :afraid:

But it will come together, I seem to do really well at buying high and selling low as well. OPPS!!!

I remember playing in our back yard, with my toy farm animals and my silkies as a little girl.

Then my cousin's family had a small house fire, but his saddle was burned, only thing left was the frame.

He gave it to me, and I rode many miles sitting on a sawhorse in my "saddle" lol.

To me, what more could I want? Where I played in the back yard was under a yellow transparent apple tree.

Loved little green apples too. Oh I couldn't eat them now though.

I definitely am a giver, but you kind of get an idea after awhile who really needs and appreciates it.