Frugal or cheap?

Inspired by Sweeteneds's topic...

I admire frugal people but find cheap people offensive. And there is a BIG difference !

In my experience, cheap people are those who will niggle and whine and kick the dirt when it's time to pay the bill. They want you to knock off 10 or 20%. BUt they are the first to never give anyone a break on anything. Your services to them are over priced, but they want full payment for everything they do for you! If they are buying an item from you, it's a common item of not much vaue. If they are selling that same item it is so valuable it should be in a museum and the price (high) is the price. These people are like many other people who delude themselves about how they really are, and what they tag as 'frugal' is in actual fact 'cheap' and walks the fine line of being greedy.

Another issue that ties into our love of frugality is thinking we SHOULD get everything as cheaply as we can. White Western Entitlement. This is the first step in a long cycle that sees manufacturers producing goods in 3rd world countries, using labour practices that we abhor. Yet our love of our dollar makes us exploiters of someone else. The CHEAPEST food we can get is NOT the food that keeps Canadian small farmers in business. CHEAP food is what is killing the small farmer. CHEAP PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY'RE FRUGAL KILL LOCAL FOOD INDUSTRY. So while we do the happy dance over frugality...it is costing someone else something somewhere and yes it IS our responsibility to think about that.

Thinking you should have it all, that you should have an item and still have your money too is to me a very offensive way to think. Tagging it as 'frugal' puts a squirt of perfume on a pile of crap. I think it's decent to accept that to GET something we will have to give up a FAIR PRICE for that something and decide if we want to have IT or want to keep our money. That is adult, mature, fair and better for the world. BUt to think we can have everything we want while NOT tossing our money into the swirl of economy makes us cry babies and sore losers and we ought to be thumped on the head and sent to the corner to reconsider our greedy nature.

Hunting, canning, home repair, buying second hand does NOT fall under the category of cheap, but of hard work and deliberate choice making and that is very respectable, in my opinion. But always looking for a way to scarpe a buck off every transaction is not frugal. It's cheap. To me a frugal person lives WITHOUT many things and has learned to say no to their galloping desire for More. Cheap people beleive they should have everything they want and don't want to pay full price for any of it. There is a WORLD of difference between the two!

Well said, and I completely agree.

Very thought provoking Uno. I am afraid I can fall into the category of cheap sometimes. I think is comes from a family that seems to compete to see who can pay the least for things thinking they have gotten a deal. Old habits are hard to break, but your post really has me rethinking some things. Thanks for that.

Best bang for the buck doesn't always pay off , you get what you paid for

I think there's a difference... frugal often means you live without flashy things, but understand value in items and will seek out high quality items that can be purchased for less then at the store. To me, cheap is today's world - cheap cheap cheap... cheap toaster - it breaks? Who cares, it's cheap, throw it out. Cheap pants, wear them a couple weeks, they get a whole, chuck it away and buy some new ones. Being cheap means you can always be moderately fashionable ( ha ha ) Frugal means you appreciate quality, and love finding quality at bargian prices.

I love being frugal, I buy all my university textbooks used and save HUNDREDS every year. Sometimes that means I use last year's edition... buuuuut, I am putting myself through university with limited help, so a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do. Besides, is anyone ever going to see a difference in my abilities as a nurse, because I had last year's textbook?!

Briarwood, resourcefullness is an attribute to be admired, and I admire yours!

Story of the sour taste cheap can leave.

Hubby and I are helpers. We believe in being good neighbours and that means minding your own business, but showing up when you are needed. People move up on this mountaiside with no clue of the snow belt they have moved into and when their plug-in snow blower bites the dust, hubby comes along with the blade on his plow truck and saves the day.

If you have to HIRE a plow truck, his fee to show up and shove snow for 5 minutes in $45. If it takes over 5 minutes, that fee goes up in leaps and bounds! We all have long, steep, curving drives that take a lot of plowing. Mostly Hubby does this without even gas money coming his way, and sometimes spends HOURS at it after a 12 hour work day.

Had one neighbour for whom he plowed many times when it became obvious their backhoe was not cut out for the job (I am amazed at the people who think a backhoe is for plowing...sure...if you have 6 hours with nothing to do). No payment was asked for nor offered. BUt one time we needed two post holes dug and asked neighbour if he would come with his hoe. He was in our yard no more than 10 minutes of digging. As he left his wife said, "There, now we're even." More thoughtless and insulting words could not have come out of her face had she tried. The words that SHOULD have come out of her face were "We are happy to be able to return the favour because of all the times you showed up and plowed for us these past winters. Thank you and call again if we can help you." But no, she was a CHEAP, graceless cow. ANd it was the last time Hubby ever plowed for them. In dollars and cents there was NO WAY his little backhoe work was even close to the snow bill he could have received. But valuing their time and equipent above everyone else's allowed them that crass and embarrassing failure in etiquette and social skills. They were CHEAP. And it was ugly.

When I worked at the Hardware store I had a saying. " I thought people were poor they are just cheap. Seems like the older you get and the more money you have the cheaper you get. Hows that for being cheap I painted everyone with the same brush. Or is that frugal?

Uno, I don't think that was cheap. I think it was rude and inconsiderate!!!
I love the neighbourly relations we have here. Being so isolated it is how things roll. We are a close knit bunch and always ready to give a hand no matter how big or small.
I think sometime this rudeness comes from people that have lived in the city for a long time and get used to not 'knowing' their neighbours and the people around them. (not all city people, this is a real generalization) Having everything right at their disposal - don't want to cook, have take out food, grocery shop everyday as it is right around the corner, flat tire, phone someone to come and fix it. I think that often makes people just think that it should be done cause it needs to be even it they don't do it themselves. We have to do everything up here for ourselves as it is tough to get help except from the neighbours!
So I guess I am not cheap with my personal time I love to give a hand when needed, and I do give lots of things away but I hate to pay full price for stuff. I shop around and barter but I want the best that I can afford.
I admire the frugal people out there, I am not as good at it. This has made me think more of my cheap stripes and how I may change them a bit.

I have neighbours who are retired dairy farmers , he also used to weld on the oil field when he was younger .When ever they travel , about three times a year, sometimes for a month , i watch over there place , I check the house everyday , I'll blow the driveway in the winter , and if he dosn't have some one mowing the lawn in the summer I do that as well , sometimes he has hired a farmers kid to do it .In all the years he has offered to pay me once when I cut up a couple of cords of fire wood and put it into his basement ( he had shoulder surgery ).I ended up wrecking my shainsaw that time by pulling a fence nail through the chain saw .I blew a moter blowing his driveway one year , and now we're at a point that he makes offers of .......taking us out for supper ( but they like chinesse food , we don't ), taking me fishing , etc but mostly it's just thank you , that's it but it's enough for me .I don't want anything being my point , just being a good neighbour , but the odd thing that always amazes me is that he has as his niece says ""he has more money then china has tea "" .

Wanting a good deal on something is fair enough. BUt it's how it's handled that means the difference between cheap and frugal. These are my arbitrary rules.

If I phone an equipment operator, "how much are you?"
"I charge $100 an hour, $60 unload fee."

When making the deal is the time to toss out your play for a better rate. "If I pay you cash, will that change the hourly rate?"

Now this guy can say yes or no or whatever. If you can't come to an agreement you are both happy with, then you say thank you and phone another operator. What you do NOT do is agree to his rate and then when he hands you the bill, whine and cry and start making him offers that are lower than the bill. If you and he entered into arrangement with the terms clearly understood before hand, there is no snivelling and yowling about it later (unless there is an obvious gouge taking place). So it is fair to seek a better price BEFORE any transactions are complete, that is frugal. BUt to pull a fit AFTER is cheap and unethical, in my mind.

OF course...there are people who will take advantage of your sense of fair play and those people, in small towns are the people that I talk badly about AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS AT THE LOCAL COFFEE SHOP so don't rip me off as it bodes ill for your business! Otherwise I consider myself fair, ethical and honourable, will not back track on deals I make, pay my bills on time, but will not stand silently by and be screwed. I will try and get a better deal if I think it is available, but BEFORE and never after, which is dirty dealing...unless there are extenuating circumstnces.

uno wrote:Wanting a good deal on something is fair enough. BUt it's how it's handled that means the difference between cheap and frugal. These are my arbitrary rules.

If I phone an equipment operator, "how much are you?"
"I charge $100 an hour, $60 unload fee."

When making the deal is the time to toss out your play for a better rate. "If I pay you cash, will that change the hourly rate?"

Now this guy can say yes or no or whatever. If you can't come to an agreement you are both happy with, then you say thank you and phone another operator. What you do NOT do is agree to his rate and then when he hands you the bill, whine and cry and start making him offers that are lower than the bill. If you and he entered into arrangement with the terms clearly understood before hand, there is no snivelling and yowling about it later (unless there is an obvious gouge taking place). So it is fair to seek a better price BEFORE any transactions are complete, that is frugal. BUt to pull a fit AFTER is cheap and unethical, in my mind.

OF course...there are people who will take advantage of your sense of fair play and those people, in small towns are the people that I talk badly about AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS AT THE LOCAL COFFEE SHOP so don't rip me off as it bodes ill for your business! Otherwise I consider myself fair, ethical and honourable, will not back track on deals I make, pay my bills on time, but will not stand silently by and be screwed. I will try and get a better deal if I think it is available, but BEFORE and never after, which is dirty dealing...unless there are extenuating circumstnces.

....when we built our house a fellow drove down our driveway with a back hoe digging deep ruts into the driveway , it was early spring and the first year for the driveway .He asked if our septic field was in already ? we were living in the house ???.Now I figured that seeing as to how he was already there I'd hire him to dig me a hole where I could deposite all the rocks that were left from the house build , plus what I would have when I put in the lawn .I asked !! what his rate was , He agreed to dig the hole , it took him about fifteen minutes ! I asked him in for a coffee , turns out he;s a brother to a girl that my wife is friends with .Now he has left his machine running , sit's inside for OVER A HOUR and when I finally say that we have to go and I ask him what the price is ( he never mentioned a flat rate ! ) he charges me with a full hour ?? Now I ask that he at least fill in the rut's that he made along my drive way , he say's yes .I pay him reluctantly , he backs up with his back hoe with the bucket down dragging it behind him ......makes the backward pass ! and leaves ?? It cost me a couple of hundred dollars to fill the rut's so that we could drive up and down ......now is he being thrifty !or cheap !

I love to barter. There is a real art to feeling out the seller and trying to find a price he will agree to. I would never want to insult anyone, and keep any bartering I do light and pleasant with a dollop of humor on top.

Kijiji is great. I always make a offer unless the seller says he is firm, but 'bundling' a sale is a great bargaining tool. We went to look at a desk on the weekend and ended up with a desk, a file cabinet, two wall cupboards and a floor cupboard unit for $300. He was asking $360 for all the pieces separately. I offered $300 and he said 'fair!' and even helped us load it!

(Oh, and so you know what a great bargain shopper I am, the new price of all the items came to over $1200!)

Sue

Hee hee, reminds me of a life I had many years ago when I used to date a tow truck driver and frequently went out on calls with him. If there is one thing you should NEVER do, it's become beligerent with a man who has slogged through a water filled ditch or snowbank to hook up your car at 1 in the morning, and now has it on a big hook. This is NOT the man you want to yap off at about how his call out fee of $40 is too darn much and he can kiss your...

That poor truck driver had a dirty job, on call all hours of the day and night and took more abuse than any human should have to. Are you drunk or stupid and have driven into some farmer's muddy field? Then shut your pie hole and pay your fee and be grateful it wasn't YOU on your back in the cow muck putting your car on a hook!

But people who charge me for drinking coffee while idling their machine get spoken of badly. Now I just say I'm happy to pay you to work but not happy to pay you for nothing, shut your damn machine off! Yes...I say this stuff.

Uno your story reminds me of what just happened to us last year. Hubby was hired with his skidsteer to go put in 9 piles for a garage, they had agreed on a price per hour. When hubby got there, the fellow ended up informing hubby that he could only afford x amount. Hubby decided okay, he would do the 9 piles for that price and eat the extra costs. This fellow is not a neighbor, friend or anyone we really knew at the time. It took hubby all day because the ground was super hard, and full of rocks. He took the $300 and came home (we supplied the piles and the skidsteer). The fellow had asked him what it would cost for another 30 piles and holes for them. Hubby told him his rate again, after telling him he would NOT barter on this again as the job was quite hard on his equipment. This fellow brought the pastor of the local church to our place claiming that we agreed to do the other 30 piles on top of the 9 for the $300. Hubby was furious, informed him again of the deal he had been given on the first 9 and that he had been given a quote for the next 30. The fellow then proceeded to argue and say that the $300 was way more than was required and was adequate for all 39 piles and holes. The $300 did not even cover the cost of the piles. Hubby finally lost his temper and gave a quote from the bible that you are not to throw your pearls to swine, and kindly asked him to leave our property and not come back. He also handed him his $300 back and told him never to call again. The pastor ended up bringint the $300 back after he spoke more to the fellow. Now this guy is definitely CHEAP not frugal. He wanted a job that would have cost him well over $3000 from anyone else for $300 from us, and thought he would get away with using our religion against us!

There used to be an annoying guy who would come around the farm asking to buy cull potatoes. The culls would be knobby, have a mark on them, maybe too big or too small. We would eat out of them ourselves because there really wasn't anything wrong with them, they just weren't suitable for market. As culls, they weren't worth much. A farmer would let them pile up until maybe a load would be sold as cattle feed. They certainly weren't worth enough for a farmer to stop what he was doing and get one bag for someone who was too cheap to pay the grocery store price.

So Annoying Guy comes in one day and finds my Grandfather working with a hired hand. Grandfather, at this point, was getting to the 'I don't give a crap' stage. Bit hard of hearing and (Bless him) his mouth sometimes moved faster than his mind.

Annoying Guy starts with his usual asking and Grandfather tries to make some conversation, "So... I hear your wife left ya and took all your money."

Hired Hand slowly looked away so as to hide his grin and keep from laughing.

I don't think we saw Annoying Guy after that.

Ah, Smoky, a wolf in cheap's clothing! Ha ha, I made a funny!