Opinions on an Alberta Feral Horse Cull

Ah, we see so much of this world in the terms of us...humans. And we are but a blip on the line of time. We think what we do is so important, and yet in the big picture we really matter not a bit. We have the power to bring cataclysmic destruction and we worry so about the results. What a funny species we are. And the earth just laughs at us and says, "in a few million years from now, you and all your concerns will be gone and yet I will continue to march on."

Echo 1 wrote:I would love to see open season on coyotes around here..... they wander the streets of our town and follow you when you take the dogs for a walk.  I am tired of people saying "They are just trying to feed their pups"  Working at the emergency vet hospital for our area I see so many family pets torn apart.....with those pets come devastated families, small children begging us to help their pet.  In the grand scheme of things I have to say coyotes are much more of a nuisance than the feral horses are. Just my HO.

It's always open season on coyotes, in Alberta, anyway. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Access for Control of Livestock Predation

Black Bear and Coyote*
Any person who is (a) the owner or occupant of privately owned land, or (b) authorized to keep livestock on public land, or (c) a resident authorized by a person described in (a) or a resident authorized in writing by a person described in (b) may, without a licence, hunt (but not trap) black bear or coyote on such lands, at all times of the year.

Fowler wrote:If horse numbers were in the thousands (like deer) I could see a hunting season.

Lousy rack though.

You could always go Godfather style ...

I think the provincial biologists put the free-range domestic horse population at near 1,000. Getting pretty close to becoming a bleedin' serious problem. Good on them for issuing licenses for capture now, and not when the population in 10,000.

Have to admit that as dangerous as all the deer running across the roads in town here are, they are pretty darn smart.  I like deer too, but not in town.

They all come into town right before hunting season. You don't see any deer in the fields, they're all in town.  So no hunting season cull here.   We were at the

traffic light one night, when a big buck deer walked

through the red light.  Almost like he knew it was safe to go.   A guy my husband works with went hunting, he's sure they can read too.  He said there was a

big elk standing right beside a no hunting sign.  

I've been following this one of course but kept silent for a conflict of self morals. I do believe in population control of "out of control" species, but I don't believe in killing something I won't eat.

Comparatively, we have more than 1000 roosevelt elk on the island that are non native crossing major highways, eating and urinating on farmers hay, but culling would bring a major public outburst, and I don't think the numbers sustantiate it anyway.
The hunting season is very limited in numbers. in fact, in our locale, 3 are allowed per season.

One question I would pose, is, what is the difference between these horses, and the ones the spanish released that are now classified as mustangs, when neither are native to north america?
some new genetics in the gene pool might actually be beneficial to the mustang population, as their life span is significantly less than modern horses in domestication.

Hillbilly, I watched an interview with a rancher who has caught a few. He trains them, uses them with his own herd to increase hybrid vigor and yes, sends some for meat.

Anyone here from Newfoundland who would like to comment on the non-native population of moose on the island?

They hunt them but I don't think it makes much of a dent.

Interestingly, the Newfoundland moose came from 4 that were brought in from New Brunswick in 1904. Amazing really. There was heavy snow that year. They found a moose winter yard and cut trees around it, felling them so as to make a corral. The animals were trussed and hauled out with horses. It would be a big job even today. Yet another case where one would like a time machine so they could go back and slap people really hard.

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Knock Knock

Hello?

Are you Eugene Schieffelin, the man who released starlings in Central Park?

Why yes I am...

WHAMMO!!!

But Fowler, wouldn't it be lovely if all the birds that mere mentioned in Shakespeare's plays were represented in North America?

Fowler wrote:

Knock Knock

Hello?

Are you Eugene Schieffelin, the man who released starlings in Central Park?

Why yes I am...

WHAMMO!!!

I second that....

Starlings are rats with wings...vermin I tell you!

Boy, am i going to get it here.
I have read all of these posts with interest...
At what point did all of you decide that you matter more than everything or anything else? Because you are man, the most dominant and destructive (thanks Sue) species.
Because you plant fields, raise livestock to butcher or what ever... Why are you so important anyways?
I am opposed to this and all other similar "kills" Perhaps we could have a rednick kill, or an alcoholic kill, or a single mother kill...
just because you don't think something should live in your neighborhood doesn't mean that it isn't going to live there or doesn't deserve to live there.
If you don't want the horses eating your fields-fence them!
If you don't want coyotes eating your livestock-fence your place and get a livestock guardian dog or two
If you don't like the weeds growing-don't over graze...and start planting beneficials to beat out the weeds.
Honestly...give it a rest...
I am like someone else here who doesn't kill what i won't eat. Believe me though, i will kill a spider and a fly or rats because i don't like them...they carry disease and i will kill them without eating them. Would i support a massive fly, spider or rat kill. NO!

Who ever started this post i think was hoping for something like this....some blow up..
lets all get back to chickens shall we?

I'm the one who started this.  If you're going to accuse me of what you suppose I was "hoping for" you can do it by name.

For myself, I think the differences of opinion have been conducted in an adult fashion.

Fowler wrote:For myself, I think the differences of opinion have been conducted in an adult fashion.

Well, until the post just before yours, anyway.

It's good to have an opinion and a open mind. There are many worldly problems no one said the world was an easy place to live in. The world is harsh place and the human race is even harsher.

Yep bigrock I agree with Fowler. Until now everything has been quite civil and a great debate.
If all of us thought alike the world would be a pretty boring place....I for one enjoy all of the various opinions on the forum. It makes it fun.
Have a super day!

I think the leap from horse culling to killing stereo types is a little much.

Fowler wrote:I'm the one who started this.  If you're going to accuse me of what you suppose I was "hoping for" you can do it by name.

There was no offense towards you meant Fowler....i wasn't accusing anyone of anything ..that just seems so harsh.. and i never know how to include the actual topic once i begin my post..so can't look back to see who started it...
no one posts a topic like this without thinking there might be some quite colourful discussion from both sides.
Again, when i said that, i did not mean it with any malice ..merely pointing out the obvious.

to others who have responded..
My discussion is no less adult than your own...That is my opinion...i drew parallels because they are there. It doesn't have to be a stretch or not...It is a line drawn in the sand...
I do not condone kills of any sort. I think they are plain wrong. Because i say so in a colourful manner does not make me less adult than yourselves..just a different opinion.

Topics like these sure allow a glimpse at the members behind the names though.

bigrock wrote:Boy, am i going to get it here.
I have read all of these posts with interest...
At what point did all of you decide that you matter more than everything or anything else?  Because you are man, the most dominant and destructive (thanks Sue) species.
Because you plant fields, raise livestock to butcher or what ever... Why are you so important anyways?
I am opposed to this and all other similar "kills"  Perhaps we could have a rednick kill, or an alcoholic kill, or a single mother kill...
just because you don't think something should live in your neighborhood doesn't mean that it isn't going to live there or doesn't deserve to live there.  
If you don't want the horses eating your fields-fence them!
If you don't want coyotes eating your livestock-fence your place and get a livestock guardian dog or two
If you don't like the weeds growing-don't over graze...and start planting beneficials to beat out the weeds.
Honestly...give it a rest...
I am like someone else here who doesn't kill what i won't eat.  Believe me though, i will kill a spider and a fly or rats because i don't like them...they carry disease and i will kill them without eating them.  Would i support a massive fly, spider or rat kill. NO!  

Who ever started this post i think was hoping for something like this....some blow up..
lets all get back to chickens shall we?

So why "WE" do what we do? For substance and individual gain or what would you call it? To keep up with the Jone's?

"purple" do you plant fields, raise livestock to butcher or sell to butcher for profit?
"red"  I could name "people" that you wouldn't want in you neighborhood.
"orange"  weeds are living organisms too.
"green"  i will kill a spider and a fly or rats because i don't like them. So the people that don't like the horses are like you with your spiders, fly's and rats because they don't like them?
"brown" why does everyone buy traps and poison than? Do you have traps and poison to kill them? I buy both to ride my self of them, guilty i am.
Hey I'm human and do all the above to keep up with the Jones. Maybe one day i will think different. We are all human and sometime i think we are the human aliens invading the planet earth for profit and substance. hey what do i know, i'm only human....
kimball

I started this topic hoping for lively debate and that's exactly what I got. No blow ups. No personal attacks. Just information exchange. What's more, it worked. I learned a lot about feral horses. Has it changed my opinion? Not yet but time will tell.

bc boy, i couldn't wade through all of your post to figure out how to quote you

sometime i think we are the human aliens invading the planet earth for profit and substance. hey what do i know, i'm only human....

thanks

Darrell has worked for the last 10 years in the area where some of the feral herds frequent.
He sees these herds a lot throught the year when he works out past Rocky Mountain House. He saw some last week. He and his crew have come close to hitting these feral horses a few times over the years. These horses hang around the roads and rightaways grazing and getting salt. Guys end up hitting them occasionally. And it's not like hitting a deer....more like hitting a moose, 5-7 moose all on the road at the same time. lol

He's seen the odd dead one on the road side on/from his way to work. They lack the fear that wildlife have. The horses themselves are pretty road savy, and people that are used to working out there know to be watch out for them, but accidents happen.

Darrell says that for the most part the horses look to be in good/fair condition. You can tell many have been born out there. He has seen the odd one with big cougar scars on their butts and sides. You can tell some are turn outs or got loose some how. He's seen one with ratty braids in it's mane, few with halters on, some with a shoe or two still on...so not born wild mustangs.

A couple guys he has worked with have written-off trucks and nearly been killed from hitting them. Some of these horses have been seen with halters on that they out grew and were cutting into their faces. Another that was stuck in a tree because of a halter, and it had been there for days till a rig consultant was able to calm it down and cut it loose. 

Alberta also has feral pigs. Culls are issued for them too.