Oka Chantecler 1920 to Galep 2013 a very long trip

Some of the good thing in life...

Looks good for a 93 year old bird.

Definitely not showing his age!

Great birds. We're just getting to know them on our farm. We couldn't find them in 1998 when we started with heritage livestock, but now have four.

Nice, very similar type to the original, will that male that is there ever get the long tailfeathers as the old pictured one? Very, very close to how that vision for the Chantecler was, except tailset, which looks pretty close, but just not quite there. Beautiful comparison pictures. I prefer the shorter main tailfeathers. Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

CynthiaM wrote:Nice, very similar type to the original, will that male that is there ever get the long tailfeathers as the old pictured one?  Very, very close to how that vision for the Chantecler was, except tailset, which looks pretty close, but just not quite there.  Beautiful comparison pictures.  I prefer the shorter main tailfeathers.  Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

Good day CynthiaM,

I have not seen this ''Galep'' stag for some time it belong to Jean-Francois Fortin a Parliament Member.

My strain is a slow tail grower but in the one I keep for myself the tail are very much like the Original.

In-breeding is a slow progress and stamina beeing my first level of selection I have to do with the rest.

Have a nice day

Yup! Mine are very slow to grow tails. They shoot up tall then fill out and finally put on a tail. Nice bird, great shot for comparison!

Galep wrote:

Good day CynthiaM,

I have not seen this ''Galep'' stag for some time it belong to Jean-Francois Fortin a Parliament Member.

My strain is a slow tail grower but in the one I keep for myself the tail are very much like the Original.

In-breeding is a slow progress and stamina beeing my first level of selection I have to do with the rest.

Have a nice day

Interesting and wonderful how some birds take so long to show things of beauty. Did you once upon a time put pictures here of your current rooster? I can't remember, but I think I remember seeing pictures and was thunderstruck by loveliness seen. If you haven't, do you have any pictures, it would be nice to see them, I would like that. thank you for replying, have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

CynthiaM wrote:

Galep wrote:

Good day CynthiaM,

I have not seen this ''Galep'' stag for some time it belong to Jean-Francois Fortin a Parliament Member.

My strain is a slow tail grower but in the one I keep for myself the tail are very much like the Original.

In-breeding is a slow progress and stamina beeing my first level of selection I have to do with the rest.

Have a nice day

Interesting and wonderful how some birds take so long to show things of beauty.  Did you once upon a time put pictures here of your current rooster?  I can't remember, but I think I remember seeing pictures and was thunderstruck by loveliness seen.  If you haven't, do you have any pictures, it would be nice to see them, I would like that.  thank you for replying, have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

CynthiaM, I will take a picture as soon as spring get here.
Regards

Thank you, Galep.
I do this too.  
I like to take pictures of my current breeders and compare them to the old photos.  I find you can often see small details in photos of your birds that you don't normally notice in real life.  When they happen to strike a similar pose, such in your photo above or mine below, it really lets you compare their traits and see that you are staying on track with Brother Wilfred's early Chanteclers.  I also keep a clipboard in my barn with old pictures representing all of my breeds.  It just helps keep me focused!

 

KathyS wrote:Thank you, Galep.
I do this too.  
I like to take pictures of my current breeders and compare them to the old photos.  I find you can often see small details in photos of your birds that you don't normally notice in real life.  When they happen to strike a similar pose, such in your photo above or mine below, it really lets you compare their traits and see that you are staying on track with Brother Wilfred's early Chanteclers.  I also keep a clipboard in my barn with old pictures representing all of my breeds.  It just helps keep me focused!

 

@KathyS

I know that you are working well I had a look at your birds before and I will be back on your roo a little later, in the mean time if you follow this link you will find a 1927 Chantecler book (bilingual) and see a picture of the roo that your are using as a Matrix
http://collections.banq.qc.ca/bitstream/52327/2282649/1/340421.pdf
That bird was stuff and the Quebec association have it and I have a picture of it.
Regards

I feel a little out of my depth here (heck, lets face it I know squat) but I wonder if Brother Wilfred was satisfied with the breed he had evolved to the point when he stopped breeding?  Put another way, what do you think he would have wanted to evolve more had he continued on?  I dare say I will regret asking this question.  I just found myself wondering if he would say to look to the future of the breed and how can it be made more rather than holding fast to an ideal from well over half a century ago, perhaps the type can be improved beyond what Brother Wilfred had achieved himself.  I say again, I'm totally ignorant here, about pretty much all things "chicken" and don't have an SOP, just a bunch of chooks with no aspirations to breed for type, or sell chicks to anyone, I have a closed flock.  I always find myself questioning the focus to stick to a past ideal because it is always keeping us recycling an already achieved state.  So if Bother Wilfred were to focus on improving anything, what do you think it would be?  be kind to this devils advocate here, it is a genuine question.

just had a thought, is it the general thinking that the standard has slipped below what Brother Wilfred had achieved over the past century and people are still trying to capture what he had managed to set as his standard, so that there is no evolving something that has not been recaptured first? not sure if that made sense. another way, do we have to first recapture the standard he had achieved before it can be made better?

I think those are excellent points, Magdelan and good for discussion.
The Chantecler went through major change during those years that Brother Wilfred and his assistants were working on them.  Even in these 2 photos, one from 1920 and one from 1926 you can see that the body continued to evolve towards a longer back, heavier frame with less tail.  But the tail in the 1926 pictures still looks a bit unfinished to me, when compared to the illustration that was first used in the Standard.
This is a topic that sometimes leads to heated discussions amongst the Chantecler breeders, because some are very loyal to the what they believe to be the ideal Chantecler, as first introduced in 1921, and some even work towards earlier versions.  I personally feel there is a wee bit of room for breeders to interpret the standard, in any breed.  I am trying to overshoot a bit on the weight, because I know how easy it can be to fall below standard weights on large breeds.  I'll just feel more comfortable with a bit of wiggle room in that department.  
But at some point Bro. Wilfred must have felt satisfied enough with his creation to announce that they were ready to be presented to the APA.  But its interesting to read that even after they were officially recognized as a breed in 1921, he hatched 740 white Chanteclers in 1925.  This tells me he was still very much involved in the project and continuing to look for improvements.

But I like to refer to the old pictures to remind myself not to become overly obsessed with increasing weights...bigger is not better after a point when trying to keep the egg production where it should be as well.  Faster growth is considered more valuable than a big, heavy finished weight.  
I also know that if we don't stick to the historical vision of the breeds we as breeders can wander way off track.  Look at what's happening to the British concept of the Orpingtons?  Ok, thats another topic!!

A very legitimate question, but will probably stretch my English capacity.
Those birds have been around here in Quebec in large quantity up until 1970 when the government gives free milk licenses to the farmer but they had to have cows only in the barn, not everyone had a poultry house. So most chickens just disappeared but still enough to be seen around up to now.
Br Wilfrid give by written a good description of what the Chantecler should look like, nothing to do with the APA SOP.
He had an inbreed strain, birds look like the one I am breeding (11lbs roo)
The general flock looks like KathyS birds more Quebec SOP br Wilfrid prefer heavy birds
And a 3 strain that use inbreed roo with Wyandott hens that was kept outside of OKA
The Chantecler being the Official Avian symbol of Quebec I find it important that my birds look like what they should.

glad I asked the question, felt I might be poking a stick at a bees nest, worried what might come back out at me,  thank you for your responses KathyS and Galep, thank you for not swatting me!  I appreciate you have language challenges Galep.  Can't be easy.  I did take a look at the link you put up Galep, really useful, and saw the birds were heavier than pictures I have seen elsewhere.  I must say, from an ignorant persons view, the heavier birds do look nice to my untrained eye.  I sometimes forget things like more meat = less eggs.  Got to find the happy medium eh.  That is a nice publication, I was all set to copy the French in to google translate to see what was being said when I saw the English was below.  Will read it later when get a quiet moment.  

I have four partridge chantecler hens who I think lay well (so hard to tell who is laying what) and I love their chocky bodies.   Their combs are what strike the winning feature for my preferences  -  by the time next winter comes by I won't have any more single comb hens (well, lets see how I go with putting my money where my mouth is!).  I love the concept of a chicken for Canada.   It makes a lot of sense when the environment is so harsh in winter.  I'm a fan of your chicken choices Kathy, as you know I'd happily take home some of your RCRIR!  Want to know what the English are doing to the orpington  now.  Am I correct in understanding that the partridge chantecler is almost entirely a different creature to the white chantecler? And, what does OKA mean? probably being thick as two short planks, need it spelled out :-).

Magdelan wrote:glad I asked the question, felt I might be poking a stick at a bees nest, worried what might come back out at me,  thank you for your responses KathyS and Galep, thank you for not swatting me!  I appreciate you have language challenges Galep.  Can't be easy.  I did take a look at the link you put up Galep, really useful, and saw the birds were heavier than pictures I have seen elsewhere.  I must say, from an ignorant persons view, the heavier birds do look nice to my untrained eye.  I sometimes forget things like more meat = less eggs.  Got to find the happy medium eh.  That is a nice publication, I was all set to copy the French in to google translate to see what was being said when I saw the English was below.  Will read it later when get a quiet moment.  

I have four partridge chantecler hens who I think lay well (so hard to tell who is laying what) and I love their chocky bodies.   Their combs are what strike the winning feature for my preferences  -  by the time next winter comes by I won't have any more single comb hens (well, lets see how I go with putting my money where my mouth is!).  I love the concept of a chicken for Canada.   It makes a lot of sense when the environment is so harsh in winter.  I'm a fan of your chicken choices Kathy, as you know I'd happily take home some of your RCRIR!  Want to know what the English are doing to the orpington  now.  Am I correct in understanding that the partridge chantecler is almost entirely a different creature to the white chantecler?  And, what does OKA mean?  probably being thick as two short planks, need it spelled out :-).

If I am not mistaken, OKA refers to the area in Quebec where the Chantecler breed was developed.

Mads

Oka, Quebec is a village north west of Montreal.

thank you for explaining what OKA is