Will backyarders participate?

As many know, my work with heritage breeds revolves around the concept of sustainable conservation. The idea of ethical food is also a driving force. I don't believe that most who enjoy heritage breeds are doing so in a way that best supports the ethical and sustainable conservation of their breed.

The demand for pullets and eggs far outstrips the demand for heritage chicken meat. Since 1/2 of every hatch are boys, my ethics dictate that we should utilize the boys as well. Unfortunately this is not happening and most pullet sales support the slaughter of day-old baby males back at the hatchery. Unfortunately, when people contact me for heritage eggs and hens, they never add frozen chicken to the request.

Until we can change this pattern, we will never have sustainable conservation of our heritage breeds.

Last summer, a fellow conservation breeder mentioned an idea of only selling poultry in pairs. The roosters could be alive or frozen, it didn't matter. The more I think of the idea, the more I like it.

So what do you all think?

Those of you who only purchase pullets, would you be willing to buy a frozen bird to go with each pullet?  

The photos are of a couple of the bigger birds, most are in the 4-5 pound range. They are from my Black Ameraucanas.


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I am not a backyarder, but I think the idea has merit.

Omega, when I sell a pair of chickens for, say, $50 and someone says they just want the hen, I say sure!  They ask the price, and I say, $50.  They are usually confused or angry.  Often they are urban chicken keepers.  I always take the time to explain why.  Sadly they don't always understand. Perhaps if I offered a frozen rooster, they would.

I have done that too sue. I guess the issue is raising the roos to processing weights ad then getting them processed should/would equal the price of a point of lay pullet. Will people spend the extra? I dont know? Or do you charge $50 and it includes a live or frozen roo?

I think the price would be for a pair. Live or frozen would be the purchasers choice. However, this would be a hindrance at a swap sale. I would need a freezer.

I think the idea is a good one.  
1st because those wanting nothing but pullets may be in an area where roosters are against bylaws 

2nd because usually those looking for pullets or POL hens are new and processing their own is just too much for them to consider  

3rd buying a finished boy they may realize what they're missing taste wise by petting their hens and eating grocery birds

I will chime in as the previously Naiive newby.
I ordered all of my chicks this last year, thinking...ahhh they will grow out and i will slaughter them, and have nice birds to roast or put in soups all yr long. Truth is; my timing was off, and some of the boys were not large enough when the processor shut down for winter So, I have wintered a few Roos that i really didn't want to. It is my responsibility as the person who purchased these little fluff balls/eggs in the spring. I am not going to bopp the boys as I think this is an inhumane practice.
However....i don't want someone else's bird that they have fed. I want to know what my birds have eaten, and so would not be interested in your birds... i am sure they are good..but it is a personal thing.

With that said....i have no problem paying more for a pullet...just a pullet. I won't pay 50.00 for one..but i will consider a fair amt. I am limited for space...limited with knowledge about breeding and also then limited with what i am willing to do, take, pay for.

With that all said....yad yada yada....I wonder how many peruse the recipees....
I was amazed at how delicious my rooster parmesan was...and now have no qualms about raising roosters

Schipperkesue wrote:I think the price would be for a pair.  Live or frozen would be the purchasers choice.  However, this would be a hindrance at a swap sale.  I would need a freezer.

Yep and you would need to know orders in advance for live vs frozen. I thought about that this morning.

I really like the idea Omega. At this time I eat my own Roos as I don't have the numbers that you all do - and we have a healthy philipino community here always looking for chicken. So for me there is a bit of a market for the boys.

Slaughter costs here for a chicken is $4.90/bird. So if you were selling your POL pullets for $30 and roo for $20 it works. I'm going to do some easy sexing birds this year. I have a couple friends who want the roo chicks for meat birds.

Just how I've dealt with it here. Your carcasses are lovely.

Wayne that is a very novel idea, thinking outside the box. I also like the look of your dressed bird.

Heather

The thought is great, but I highly doubt that kind of thing will come to pass. Just my thoughts. If someone bought 10 pullets, then 10 males, frozen, live, just doubt it. And really is too bad. I do not cull my males, I have breeds that I grow out and are very suitable for the table. Our birds are processed at the abattoir, government inspected, so if I needed to, I could sell excess males that are processed. So far, I have only had enough males to have in our freezer for personal consumption. But this year I know I will have too many and will need to source people that would like a home raised bird for their table...not sure how I will go about it, but definitely will have too many for us to be able to eat. This is a worthy discussion. I would like to know how you get your birds packaged so nicely, job well done...I vacuum seal mine too, but put string around them to keep the legs and wings close to the body . Gotta be an easier way, have an awesome day, CynthiaM.

Hi Cynthia,

Traditional roasting chicken evisceration methods leave a flap of skin to tuck the legs in. My roasters stay trussed without tying the legs. I dress my turkeys and ducks the same way.

However, this only works well if one is working with a properly selected body type. Most heritage lines that I've processed have lost the conformation necessary for traditional processing methods. Commercial processors I've talked to say that this is the reason they tend to treat all roosters as fryers during processing.



" However, this would be a hindrance at a swap sale. "

Yes Sue, this has been an obstacle in my mind as well. Taking a freezer to a poultry swap in no big deal, but I have food safety concerns about handling live birds and food at the same time. This is the reason I try to avoid farmgate sales and limit food sales to the farmer's market. I want to be foodsafe clean when handling/selling food. When I have sold food and live birds at the same event, Dawn has come with me and she would handle the food while I handled the live birds. Guess I could bring a portable means for washing my hands.

Thanks Heather. I think you would have had to DQ the bird that dressed out over 6 pounds. I think he was, when live, a bit over the 20% limit for overweight birds, LOL. Might need to start bringing a scale to keep my show birds inline. LOL.

Oh yeah, packaging is heat shrink bags. Just put bird in the bag, dip in hot water, bag shrinks around bird, seal bag. No fancy equipment.


Here are some pictures of the ones that missed out on freezer camp. Some boys are 2012 hatch, others are 2013.

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A couple pens where I put 2013 cockerals with 2012 hatched hens.

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I think that's an excellent idea.  Even if the backyarders refuse, it might get people thinking about the reality of their expectation of wanting to buy females only.
People are always wanting good pullets, but very few are interested in finding out what happens to all the males.
Last fall I sent 45 big cockerels for professional processing, then butchered another 19 myself.  I haven't had to worry about excess roosters as my immediate and extended family snaps up most of what I can produce.  
All it takes is inviting them for a meal of slow roasted heritage chicken and they are begging to buy them.  I cooked 2 big Orpingtons for Christmas and the guests were coming back for 2nd and 3rd helpings of chicken, then asked to take some left overs home.  

A farm in our area bought chicks from me last spring and is now selling naturally raised Orpington chicken for $20.00 a kg.  Yes, that's $50 - $60 a chicken.  I think that's awesome!  I'm spoiled and take our home raised heritage chicken for granted, but to others it is a specialty meat that they have just discovered and they love it.  The flavour is unlike anything else and they are willing to pay a good price for the luxury of someone else putting in the time to grow them.
By the way, your packaged up Ameraucanas look wonderful, OmegaBlue!  A few years ago I never thought of Ameraucanas as being a truly dual-purpose breed.  But your strain does is all - pretty eggs and an impressive meat bird too.

Chances are I would not -not really a back yarder though more of a farmer.

If you are selling chicks/hens/pullets/cockerels/cocks what ever it is not the responsibility of the customer to worry about taking a frozen or live bird home other than what they wanted to. You are basically forcing something on them and that is a bad business move.

If you are selling sexed chickens it is your responsibility to deal with the excesses birds and not the customers responsibility to have a bird pawned off on them that they may not want nor need.

call ducks wrote:Chances are I would not -not really a back yarder though more of a farmer.

By using the term 'backyarders', Omega means selling TO backyarders who are only after hens and cannot have roosters in the city.

He is not asking people who are backyarders to participate in this sales technique since people living in the city tend not to raise roosters to butchering age. If they raise chicks and they become cockerels, they dispose of them when they start to crow.

Schipperkesue wrote:

call ducks wrote:Chances are I would not -not really a back yarder though more of a farmer.

By using the term 'backyarders', Omega means selling TO backyarders who are only after hens and cannot have roosters in the city.  

He is not asking people who are backyarders to participate in this sales technique since people living in the city tend not to raise roosters to butchering age.  If they raise chicks and they become cockerels, they dispose of them when they start to crow.

Yes I get that - I still do not expect and would never ever expect some one to buy a live chicken and a frozen chicken. It's a bad business plan.

It's as if the next time you order a coffee from a coffee shop they hand you the grinds to dispose of.

I must disagree, CD. Firstly, it is not really a business plan, it is an attempt to get people who want layers to see the whole picture. Heritage breeders might want to consider changing the mindset of people who just want to purchase hens. They need to come to terms with the fact that if you look at the odds, for every hen hatched into this world, there is also a roo. When you create a market only for the hens you may be wasting half your hatch, and that is indeed a poor business plan.

Secondly, to me, your analogy is faulty. You are comparing a rooster to coffee grounds and hens to coffee. Through this comparison, you are equating roosters to waste. I don't consider roosters to be a waste product of poultry raising. That is the thinking that Omega's plan is trying to prevent.

Perhaps a better analogy would be a tomato plant and a basket of tomatoes. You can eat the tomatoes now and the plant may produce in the future.


For personal reasons, I am against this plan. I fear this notion of 'the best husband is a frozen husband' could spread.

I think it is interesting. You will have to let us know if it catches on.

Fowler wrote:Perhaps a better analogy would be a tomato plant and a basket of tomatoes.  You can eat the tomatoes now and the plant may produce in the future.


For personal reasons, I am against this plan.  I fear this notion of 'the best husband is a frozen husband' could spread.

     Oh Fowler, you are hilarious.

I like the idea Omega, I would be happy to buy a pullet along with a roo that is ready for the oven!

Omega, your birds are real nice looking...i hope i didn't come across as rude..it was certainly not my intent

Nice tidy packages. Where do you get this shrink wrap?

If all the roosters looked as plump and nice as the one you have OBF, I would line up to pay that if I was buying a pullet or two. I think this is amazing thinking outside the box, and if people start to do this, it will eventually become an accepted option and perhaps even the norm.

I see a big food crisis coming down the pike in the next decades and this kind of offering is going to be much more in the mainstream. That's my oracle prediction for the year. I hope it's after I'm dead, but if not, at least I have land/buildings and a gun.

call ducks wrote:It's a bad business plan.

Nope. It's GENIUS. And totally doable with the right marketing. I could market the crap out of that idea. I can actually think of a few ways I could take it even further and expand on it to make a pretty tidy annual income for myself ... hmmm ...

Quick, OBF, patent that idea before we all steal it!

authenticfarm wrote:

call ducks wrote:It's a bad business plan.

Nope. It's GENIUS. And totally doable with the right marketing. I could market the crap out of that idea. I can actually think of a few ways I could take it even further and expand on it to make a pretty tidy annual income for myself ... hmmm ...

Quick, OBF, patent that idea before we all steal it!

Not really... Because you are basically pawing your responsibility on to some one else. Look as a customer I would not like this. I would move on to some one different, because of this. You wan't to sell you heritage cocks go right a head, but don't force some one to take one with a pullet. Think about it this way - you have to feed two birds, 20-26 weeks, and then pay to process the cockerel (because you would still be selling it so unless it was for you personal consumption it should have to be slaughtered at a inspected location), pay for the feed, housing (deprecated) it does not make sense in anyway. If you want to sell them (heritage cockerels) go for the ethnic markets. But don't force your problems on to other people (and that's what it seems like you are doing with this idea).

From a business stand point it makes no sense - and from that "food crisis" that was talked about it also makes no sense. That food crisis will happen because top quality grains are being fed to inefficient chickens, while they should be fed to people. Also that "food crisis" will not happen in NA for a while, but will happen in low developed countries or MDC.

Here is a quote from my friend after reading this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

One of the most important things she got wrong is the belief that the heritage chickens of old (pre commericals) still exist in Farmer Reese's barn, or that they ever were a well-defined entity in their prime. She is framing the heritage birds as a better alternative,but there's no going back

There is no going back - as the world's population grows we simply can not afford to go back to the heritage birds - it's great if some one want's to preserve them go right ahead - but don't make it the customers responsibility to take the "other half" that other 50%.

Ohh I can't wait until the accuracy of in ova sexing is improved. No more waste then in the layer sector.

bigrock wrote:Omega, your birds are real nice looking...i hope i didn't come across as rude..it was certainly not my intent

Nice tidy packages.  Where do you get this shrink wrap?

There are a few places in the US that sell it. I am working on trying to get a few sizes brought into Canada without costing a small fortune. If anyone knows a place in Canada that sells them I would also love to know!!

smokyriver wrote:

bigrock wrote:Omega, your birds are real nice looking...i hope i didn't come across as rude..it was certainly not my intent

Nice tidy packages.  Where do you get this shrink wrap?

There are a few places in the US that sell it. I am working on trying to get a few sizes brought into Canada without costing a small fortune. If anyone knows a place in Canada that sells them I would also love to know!!

Our local small poultry processor uses this same stuff. It's really neat. I like the tidiness of it!