Restless and needing to share my loss

Hi there Everyone,

So I tend to spend much more time reading all of your posts on this forum, then I do posting my own...and that is good with me because I do so love to read what you all have to say. However, today was a very sad day for me. Now I've woken from my slumber... .tossed and turned and sleep eludes me.... I can't help this need to share my story.

So it started two Christmas's ago. Ok...a little earlier...almost spring to be exact. My spouse has raised red and black angus cattle for quite some time..but I personally had never owned or been involved with cattle until he came into my life. That spring was the first time I learned to tag and vaccinate calves as they were born...and I had to joy of watching a few as they came into the world and took their first breaths. I was hooked. Well there was one little heifer in particular...a red & white faced little girl...who absolutely captured my heart. For the next many months I went out every chance just to watch her grow. She was beautiful.

Fast forward to Christmas....Chad had enlisted the help of my mother to get a giant red bow, get the heifer into the head gate, and get this bow around her neck. Alas...she was presented to me...Chad's gift to me for Christmas. The absolute most beautiful, wonderfully unique gift I had ever received!! I was so thrilled and terribly in love with this sweetheart of an animal. I named her Saydie.

Well this last winter/early spring...my beautiful Saydie--who was bred to black angus--gave me my first little Grand-calf! (Yep...my kids just rolled their eyes and laughed when I called her that too..lol). I became the proud owner of a stunning little pure black heifer...I tagged and vaccinated her myself....and welcomed to my family, Black Willow. Every summer we send our cattle to the PF pasture...but not my Willow. I wanted her and Saydie at home...where I could keep an eye on them. Summer flew by...days spent visiting my girls in the back coulee...revelling in my growing little hoofed family.

The cows came home three weeks ago...both the herd from the PF as well as the smaller one from the coulee. We spent days fixing fence and then let them into the back pasture to graze it down. A few nights ago I heard coyotes yipping loudly...sounding very close...but then they always sound close. I stopped to listen for any cows making a ruckus...our mama cows do not play kindly to something bothering their young....but not a peep. I drifted off to sleep. This afternoon, our two adventurous dogs showed up on the deck with a jaw bone...some blood and muscle still attached. Chad went out immediately to check the cows, assuring me that it looked like a deer jaw. An hour later the house phone rang...Chad on the line...."sweetheart, I can't find your calf."

Silence.....then "you still there?" And from me, "Chad...that's not funny...what a cruel joke."

Silence again....."I'll keep looking". He hung up and I realized he wasn't pulling a mean prank. I went back to the deck and picked up the jaw...turning it over...looking closely. There...short black hairs. Deer around here don't have black hairs. And then I just knew.

So Chad isn't one to make friends with the animals....his companion saying being "Sweetheart, where you have livestock, you have deadstock." Well to his credit, when he came into the house...he kept his mouth shut. Just hugged me while I cried

My sweet, beautiful Willow...somehow taken down and torn apart by filthy coyotes while we slept comfortably in our beds!!! I am so angry, sad, frustrated, heart broken....confused! How?? How did those horrid creatures take my Willow...a 300+ pound calf...and not so much as a whisper or a rustle from the herd?? No bawling from Saydie?? GGRRRR!! I am usually a lover of all animals, however, right at this moment I would gladly pump a few rounds into those filthy beasts myself!

So...two gorgeous heifers...the beginning of my own small herd...and now back down to one . My son was going to use Willow for his 4H and now we've lost her. I apologize for carrying on so long-winded like....I am so heart sick and can't sleep...and somehow sharing my frustration and sorrow with all of you...typing it out....seems somehow therapeutic.

To keep this somewhat chicken related...I am worried now that these **insert-bad-word-here** vile animals will soon catch on to my chickens..now that they are coming right into the farm yard. I am thinking of getting a LGD but have never had experience with one before. Any advice that any of you would like to throw at me would be more than welcome.

Apologies for my lengthy post....thanks to all who made it this far and for reading my story.

Back to sleep

Wow. I have no advice to give and I am so sorry to hear of your loss. We lost my favorite calf last weekend. She was small and we think she gat manhandled by the older ones a bit too much.

I am just shocked that coyotes could kill a 300 lb calf.

Keibbler, I read to the end. This is a sorrowful time for you, your love for your animals runs deep and you have been hit very hard. I am sorry for you and for the child that wanted to work with the little one in 4H. There really is not much to say, but I am grateful that you shared your sadness with us. It does help to tell of these things, and there are so many that listen...still wishing that you can find something in this day to make you smile. CynthiaM.

Sorry to hear of your loss Kiebler, I know how ones heart becomes attached and I can feel your pain and sorrow.
I worry every night when the coyotes start up, then our LGD heads out. He does his job to keep those buggers at bay but I do worry about his safety some nights when there sounds like a 100 of those coyotes out there.
It is strange that coyotes could take down a healthy 300 lb calf, either a pack of them or maybe you have wolves? Either way not good, a LGD would definately help keep the predators at bay but if you have a pack or wolves you would need more than one for sure.

So sorry for your loss

((((hugs))))

Never apologize for posting. It's a good way to get something off your chest.

I am so sorry for the loss of this calf. Like the others I am puzzling over how a 300 pound calf could be taken by coyotes and wonder if something else didn't happen and then the coyotes moved in to take advantage. It's hard to say with certainty. Either way, it's a blow to your little herd and I know that feeling of morbid guilt...like you should have been there and done something. Sorry about all this. Share anytime.

So sorry for your loss! I've lost a flock of chickens to a pack of coyotes some years back but never thought they would take down an animal that large. So sorry!

I read your story right to the end. I'm pretty teary eyed right now.

Sad that your kids lose out on a 4h project, sad you lose a buddy.

I have to agree with Hidden River a good dog can keep just about anything at bay.

I hope you feel better (in time)

It always helps to share:)

I agree with you all about coyotes getting such a big animal... Thats what confuses me the most. Chad guesses she was somewhere between 280 & 320. He has been raising cattle for over 20 years... His father for over 50 years. Neither of them have ever heard of coyotes taking a calf that size. And why now? She was in the back Coulee all summer as a little thing.. Far from the house & lots of coyotes around... Yet she comes home safe & now they get her?? Why no noise from the rest of the heard that night? About all I can figure at this point is maybe she got sick? We walk the pasture every day but had been away a couple days so I wonder if she fell ill & we didn't know yet? Coyotes seem to be able to sniff out a sick or weak animal from miles away. Could that explain why her mom didn't bawl? Maybe she knew Willow was sick & abandoned her? Some animals in nature do that.. Not sure about cattle. I just don't know. All I know is that these buggers came awfully close to the house & yard to get her so I need to take action and keep the rest of our animals safe!

Thank you so much everyone for lending your ears... Er... Ok eyes

This forum is about so much more than just poultry... It's also about sharing, connecting, support... And best of all about making new friends.

I love this place

What a sad and terrible thing. I'm so sorry. It doesn't sit well to think that coyotes would take down a big healthy animal like that.

I'm sorry about your loss. I had a nice Highland bull calf here that I spent a lot of time with. I had it halter broken and as gentle as a puppy. On our gkid's brithday I put it farther away from home because we didn't want a lot of children around it during the day. I had it on a line where there was lots to eat. It slipped on some logs and fell down hill breaking it neck. It was a tough loss like yours.

So sorry to hear of your loss. This seems to be a year for losses. We too are grieving a loss so I understand how you may be feeling. Take care of yourself.

So sorry for your loss. A couple of Christmas' ago, we had what I thought was a large wolf hung up on our back fence not 20 feet from our back door. I thought it was dead until I saw it moved. Turned out the animal had only three legs and must have hung itself up trying to jump our fence. Long story short, after the animal was shot [thanks to a super nice RCMP officer], we were told that it was in fact a coyote. Never believed they could grow so big.

I am very sorry for your loss. This is a good place to let your feelings out because we all care and we all understand. Lou

So sad for you. We have a small, very tame herd of angus cross cattle here, and we are attached to them.

I'd suggest getting TWO Maremma dogs. They are AMAZING at defending livestock (mine will even defend wild partridges that frequent our yard), terrific with children, and all-around nice dogs. Someone once told me that one Maremma will defend, two will take down a coyote, and three will take down a cougar. We have two, but I'd like a third one!!!

We haven't lost a single calf to coyotes since we got our first Maremma six years ago. We added another one two springs ago, and they are a great team. Very cool to see how they work together!

We have two other outdoor dogs who help with the barking, too - but I wouldn't count on them to defend the livestock.

So sorry Keibler. I was out there crying like a baby when my ducks disappeared and the ravens ate my goslings, and they were just birds!

I too am puzzling over such a large animal taken by coyotes. Could it be possible that your calf was weakened or even killed by something else, then the coyotes took over from there?

so sorry, it is so hard to lose an animal, even more so a pet...
So hard to know what happened there, I know there are pneumonias right now, also we have had trouble with arrow grass poisoning this Fall, it is a very sudden thing, best thing we have been doing is keeping their salt intake up...
Hugs

Though I've become a quiet ghost of a poster myself, I can say this community has been quite supportive when I've had issues and I think you did the right thing by chatting here. I can relate to your pain, though it is your own for sure, I empathize with you. Hang in there and go coyote hunting.

We recently snagged up an LGD at an auction in Moose Jaw a few months ago and she's been the best thing ever since. We have a skunk problem at the moment, but I think she doesn't chase them down because they're so cat-like, and it's been instilled in her to not touch, chase or look at the cats.

She is expecting puppies for the end of the month and we'll be looking to home them, so something to consider there if you decide you want to go that route (details below, as this isn't about a sales pitch). You'll do what's right for you and best for your livestock in order to make them not dead stock. Someone said that to me once and I wrinkled my nose at them -- then a pup I had to rehome tore the back end open of a bird and realized just how right they are. I love this, love the life, hate this part of things.

Deep breaths, and just remember: if you had heard a ruckus, you would have been out there. YOU KNOW THAT. There is also other things to consider, perhaps she was already down, or maybe she got out of the fence soooomehow (they're great at that, as we all know) and was too far away for the herd to alert to the yotes. YOU DID everything you could do/did what was instinct at the time. You are not wrong for that. Treat yourself better in this hard time and know you gave her a great, loved life.

Though my experience is limited, I've found the Pyr's to wander a bit during the day, but only around our property line, which I walked with her 4 or 5 times the first day she was here. She sleeps quite a bit during the day, but I find her to be a very light sleeper. We've even caught her sleeping with a chicken pecking at the grass by her face and tummy -- she loves those birds. I find she barks at night at things you can't here, but since having her, we haven't had a coyote on the property and they were coming right into the yard, yipping their heads off, likely sniffing out our birds as well as the wild cats. Lola stays outside 90% of the time, coming in briefly at night, usually for an hour or so. As with many LGD's (and bully breeds for that matter), they sense weakness very quickly and will try to push their weight around initially, but it's an alpha role thing, and you just take over. We didn't have that problem with Lola, though she tries it on occasion by blocking doors and exits and so on.

She will be bred to our Bully dog. He's a Neo Mastiff/American Bulldog cross. He's never been aggressive with the birds and has, in fact, been chased away by the rooster. Those pups will likely be a great all around property and personal protection dog.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts. Many of you have suffered losses and I know you truly mean it when you share your sympathy for my loss. I feel for your losses also...my heart going out to each and every one of you every time I read a post sharing the same theme of lost critters.

I too, am now believing that Willow must have suddenly fell ill or something, and the coyotes just moved in for their chance. As I said earlier, I know that in nature, mother animals will actually abandon their young if the babies are weak or diseased..and this makes me wonder about cattle as well and if maybe that's the reason they didn't make a ruckus.

Here is the strange part. We have searched and searched this farm, covered every square foot of farm and pasture. Driven the fence line, driven the fields. No sign of the carcass, no sign of the hide. Umm....?? We are completely baffled. All we have is this jaw bone and one other unidentifiable bone. We can't figure out where the dogs found them and can't find anything else. Super strange.

We have had a few people make suggestions about guardian animals. Llamas, donkeys, LGDs. Any thoughts or advice?

We had some neighbours lose a steer to hunters. I guess the deer were scarce and the beef was to good to resist. Just took the hind quarters and left the rest....

Sorry to hear of you loss. I know it hits hard when they have worked themselves into a soft spot in your heart. I have to admit I don't let myself go there with the calves anymore.

Like I said above, since getting the Pyr we've noticed a major difference with the coyote presence. They bark often, but it doesn't bother me (it sure does some people).

When was the last time you saw her? For a scavenger to completely make the animal dissapear seems strange to me. We lost a steer while we were gone, figure pneumonia and since my mom was not watching the cattle it went missed, but when we got home we moved him out to the pit and nothing has touched him yet. Seems strange with all the coyotes around lately, wondering if the LGD is protecting the body? Could be it has been cold and nothing has received the scent yet?

If you are going for a guardian definately go with a dog(s) there is nothing that compares to their protection. If you want something to warn the dog then a donkey or llama with the herd is good, but they are not defenders (well a good donkey can do some damage but I still think a dog is better). You will want to make sure they bond with your stock and not really strong with the family, you want them to behave and listen but you dont need a 150 lb guard dog on your front step instead of out guarding the herd.
Do your research and see which breed would work best for you, I am in the research stage right now and learning a lot on the different breeds out there.

Sweetened and Hidden,

I do believe Chad and I are definitely leaning your way and going to look into getting a dog. I have been researching extensively...fingers flying across keyboard until they cramp right up..reading and reading until my eyes just can't take any more and the headache creeps in...lol...and so far I am reading really great things about a Pyranees/Maremma/Akbash cross. As I type this very message I can hear coyotes yipping...sounding as if they are right on the deck! Rotten scoundrels.

There are a few of those out there Keibler, there is actually a few started dogs as well that might work in your situation, the biggest thing is making sure they were not trained to kill birds. Some are trained to kill ravens to protect lambs, so those are not the best all round farm dog if you have chickens.
We tend to start with puppies here and bond them to all the stock, but it is at least 6 months before they are even close to being able to protect anything, and with a large predator load could be closer to a year or so before they are physically able to challenge them.
My father in law has an Akbash, we are currently looking for one as a second dog for our pack. You have met Pete and he is a great dog, he is Maremma/Pyranese and he does a fairly good job of keeping the larger predators at bay, but I do see it wearing on him putting on so many miles in a night then trying to stay around me and the other dogs during the day, and so a second would really help him out I think. The Akbash is a very slender dog with shorter hair, but the boy my inlaws have can sure put a lot of fast miles on, almost like a greyhound. Not sure what the mix would be like of all 3 breeds?
The other dogs we have had contact with lately are the Kangals, they are supposed to be a fierce protector, the people that have them raise horses and havent had any losses (and they are in cougar country) since they go them. Seems anything purebred is hard to find, so sometimes a cross is the next best thing. Just hard to know what temperment will come out in a cross?