Immune System booster?

I am interested in what product people use for their birds when they are showing signs of general 'unwellness' but no indication of what it could be to treat specifically - just something to boost their immune system to help them along. Do you use Poulvite....Electrovite.....Vet RX....? I just want to have what I need here at home if/when something arises that I can't figure out.

Thanks kindly.

I have a product I like which is a probiotic powder specifically for birds, sprinkle it on chick feed at that dangerous age when they go off the amprolium feed and onto regular...
I think it helps build up the good bacteria in their intestines after using the antibiotic...

I like ACV- apple cider vinegar, unpasteurized, with the mother

Thanks for asking this question, Chicory, I'm interested in learning about this as well as I want to try not to use any antibiotics. I look forward to the answers here.

I assume that at this moment your birds do not look 'off' and you are asking this for when they do.

In my opinion, if your whole, entire flock looks off at the same time, you have a problem that is not going to be fixed with any immune booster. Any illness that strikes the majority of your flock at once and makes them all appear ill, is a BIGGY!

You are most likley to encounter the odd bird that is 'off' by itself, not the whole flock. Then you deal with each case and try to figure out what the problem might be, how to treat it or let it resolve on its own, to separate or not. And none of this is easy or straight forward. Most of the time we never know for sure what makes a chicken sick.

If you want to give a spring or fall tonic as a preventative measure, that's one thing (I like the apple cider vinegar suggestion, have used it in my flock). Or maybe an annual worming to make sure they are not compromised and making the best use of their food. But by the time you notice, gee, everyone looks ill...you are in big trouble!

Your main goal is to keep their living quarters clean and dry. Shovel out the poo so the ammonia levels are not irritating lungs and eyes. Clean water, good food and then hope that given the opportunity to fight off some minor ailments without your intervention, will develop chickens that are stronger and more resilient. I treat birds that look truly ill. I also treat injuries. But other than that I let the flock develop its own immunities and resistance, as birds that are too often propped up with blanket applications of antibiotics never get strong and healthy. Survival of the fittest. Apple cider vinegar, worming, controlling parasites are all steps that will benefit your birds and better prepare themselves to fight off what comes their way. But I cannot think of any overall booster that I have used other than those that have been mentioned.

Thanks so much for your responses. I just got home and am too tired to type more but would like to respond more thoroughly tomorrow. And again, thank you.

Good night.

Well another opportunity for some insight into my chicken keeping ways. Mirycreek and Susan, thanks for your tips and Uno, once again you have me pondering my approaches as a result of your generous time of chicken pontification and I think you may have nailed it. I don't know how to quote specific sections of posts so will say the third section of your post about the odd bird looking off is what's going on for me but now after a couple of weeks of one looking off in two separate flocks I have two looking off in each flock and not getting better but not getting worse - all fluffed up, standing still a lot, moving slowly, eating and drinking a little bit. Combs look fine, no external parasites and only one with off looking poop. My coops have great ventilation, they eat organic feed with twice a week receiving ground cooked egg, alfalfa meal, ground flax, etc AND I put AC Vinegar in their water in Spring/Summer and Hydrogen Peroxide in Winter. However, of my four flocks, the birds who are not well in two flocks are in the two coops without droppings boards, which means a lot of poop has accumulated in there over the last 5 months even though I rake it every day. And I do have ammonia issues in there as their litter is damp from the snow being tracked in and spilled waterers being carried in and out every day. I've loathed the situation but felt at a loss until the snow melts (still 3 weeks away) as I have no where to put the litter with so much snow outside. Anyways, wah, wah, wah. I will go out very soon here and start shovelling one coop out onto a tarp and hubby said he will build me a droppings board today, which has been on the list of things to do.

Sooooo, I think this is the cause and my question is, aside from cleaning these two coops, what can I do for these birds that I assume are suffering as the result of contaminated bedding? One of them is my most beautiful BLR Wyandotte and two others are my Wheaten Marans and they are all young birds.

I think I'll separate them for a few days and put colloidal silver in their water. Cleaning out one coop right now!

I have a feeling it is NOT contaminated poop, sorry, that is my belief. I only clean out the area below the roosts twice a year. This is called the deep bedding method and I have read time and time again that it is very effective. Allowing the manures to build up creates micro-organisms to work its magic with decomposing the heap. This is very common practice. After summer and after winter is when I do the cleanup. You said that you rake the coops that don't have the drop board. Honestly, I think that may be the problem. I have read, again, nothing to back up what I am saying, other than things I have read, disturbing the area like that is worse than just letting it sit. You are already cleaning out the coop. That is probably a good thing now, it is getting close to the end of winter. I too will be doing that massive clean in a bit, but not quite, still a couple more weeks before I enter that workload.

I wonder how old the birds are? I would presume that they are probably adultish, and should have good immunity systems built up. I think isolating them is a good idea, and trying to make them well. But I have a suspicion, that by the time the birds are all hunched up and just not looking well at all, that there is something that may have been going on for awhile and is just now manifesting. I don't know. Just some things to think about, and hope I have not caused any stress for you with things I have said. I think that giving them some silver water is a good idea. That will kill bad bacteria that may be within their systems. Give them a few days on that. If you don't see improvement, then perhaps to bring out the big gun and give them some antibiotics, but that is the last thing you should reach for. We want strong birds, with good immune systems, antibiotics should be the last thing to reach for. I know I have had to use antibiotics now and then, and they certainly do have their place in the world for sure. Good luck, Dawn, hope all goes well for you, keep us apprised of what has occurred, how you treated, how treatment worked, you get the gist, we care and listen. Have a beautiful day, and be careful of the slippery conditions that melt does. CynthiaM.

Thanks Cindi for your thoughtful input. Yes, I've been raking every coop once a day religiously thinking that, for my poopy coops, I'd hopefully be aerating the litter to some extent to get it to dry but it has been in vain. Having read Uno's and your post, a litter management issue resonates with me. I'm still so new at all this and went from almost zero to one hundred last year with good intentions but seem to have set myself up with one lesson after another. I continue to be on a steep learning curve.

I do love the droppings board approach. I also believe in the deep litter approach but feel intimidated by it and am concerned I wouldn't manage it properly (like now I guess). My experience with the droppings board is that I just have to clean the board once a month and the coop once a year as the litter stays so dry. But is that healthy? Who knows? Anyways, a combination of wet litter that I rake daily is most likely the problem. I finished cleaning the one coop. The other one will have to wait as I have ongoing tendon issues in both my arms.

In the meantime, if no other birds get sick in the coop I just cleaned I will take that as a confirmation and hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, I can save my unwell birds.

Blessings to you and have that most wonderful day.

Chicory, I have read many good things about the deep bedding method too, but in my situation, it has not been an option. I have wood floors in my coop and an edge board around the area under the roost. This is the poo pit. The poo pit gets very wet! The board keeps the gloopy poo mostly contained and the rest of the floor stays dry. That wet chicken manure will erode wood! I have cedar decking for flooring, which should be even more rot resistant, but as CynthiaM points out, there is a microbial action that sets up and it will digest wood flooring too!

However, because my coop is built on skids, off the ground, in cold weather that poo freezes solid from the bottom up. I'm pretty sure frozen solid there is no microbial action, luckily also no smell and no cleaning it up unless I want to use a hammer and chisel to chip it off. As soon as it thaws, the FIRST thing I do is get that poo pit shovelled out! My ammonia levels fluctuate with the weather. BUt since I have an edge board and the dirtiest bedding stays under the roost, I often just carry out several 5 gallon pails full and it's good to go. I never have to shovel 100% of my floor area.

I tried having indoor water once. Once. Never again. It makes too much mess, too much humidity and too much wet bedding. My birds get fresh water once a day and have learned to drink up while they can. No heated water. Yes, it is a pain in the butt. But sloppy hen houses were even more obnoxious to me. Water is outside. All year round.

Hats off to you for being the kind of poultry keeper who has paid enough attention to her birds to notice when they are 'off'! This is the number one best thing you can do for your birds, be aware of how they are so you can see when there is a problem. Good job. But I agree with Cynthia....messy bedding may cause respiratory irritation, but should not cause hunched, sicky birds. Respiratory irriation will be heard, coughing, sneezing, wheezing, gurgling. What you describe is different.

The first two things I suspect when I see an off bird is egg bound or impacted crop. Impacted crop is easy to detect. The bird will be alarmingly light when you pick her up, her breast bone will stick out like a knife blade yet her crop will be huge, packed with food. But she's starving to death anyway. Sometimes you don't notice this until the bird is so weak it topples over or is staggering around.

Egg bound birds can be hunchy and miserable. Sometimes they walk in an odd, upright stance like a penguin. Check the vent, if the egg has broken inside sometimes discharge that can be yolk yellow or like egg white will come out. Broken egg internally is pretty bad news. If the egg is still whole, but stuck, there are things you can try.

Vent gleet makes birds ill. YOu will see a pasty, whitish discharge at the vent and you will SMELL IT! It's the equivalent of a yeast infection and you can try drugstore yeast infection meds. In my case, birds with this have not recovered.

There are others here who have experience with Mareks (I spelled that wrong) and will have more information. Separation is a good first step...upside down laundry basket makes good temporary shelter. Whatever it is, I do not think it is related to your bedding or shovelling.

Keep us informed, Dawn, you are doing the best you can, and I know you got into chickens thigh deep in a big hurry . This is a good thing. You will not stop learning, through the good and the bad, that is what makes us armed with great knowledge to learn how to deal with our birds, and keep them happy and safe and well. You are never going to find the end of the road to learning, it just doesn't happen. I have been keeping chickens in real hard earnest for only about 4 years. It seems like it has been my lifetime, but it really has only been that short of a time. Dabbled with birds throughout my life, as did my Mamma, but never hard core like I am now. I still learn stuff almost every day about my chickens and how to care better for them, always learning, trust me, that is a good thing. In my coops the floor is earth, I think the deep bedding would work better in earthen floored coops than those made of wood. I can totally get that. My coops are also very large, well I think they are. My cochin and orpingtons have a large shed that was used for horses, it is tall, me thinks about 12 feet tall and is wide and long. I wish I had the exact dimensions, but it can house 4 separated areas of about 8 feet wide each, three pens and then my storage area, so I would venture it is about 30 feet by 15 feet or so. I am not space constrained, as far as ventilation, because the ceilings are high. The buckeye house is smaller. Again earthen floor and probably about 10 X 16, the roof is decent high too, maybe 10 feet, so I do not have issues of ventilation, air movement I mean to speak to, the soffits are open so moist air is released as it rises. Gads, why am I saying all this stuff, I don't know, just a need I guess. I think why I was talking about this was to explain how with me I can use the deep bedding, because I have the room to allow the crap to compost, smiling that big smile. I don't have to remove it because of odour or ammonia burning eyeballs, so that makes me kind of lazy and it just sits and kind of rots I guess. Well, I don't like the word rot, I shall reword that and call it decompose. Every few days I ALWAYS take a little of the stuff that is on the floor in the coops, which is a combination of rice hulls (mostly), shavings, some straw, from when I pull the old straw from nest boxes and put in new, which too is frequent, peat moss, which I always have a bag hanging around, I throw this stuff on those poopy piles below the roosts and it is layered big time. I think this also helps to pull out moisture from the chicken crap and helps to decompose too. I think if I put my hand in the pile of chicken poopies, that it would be very warm, decomposing stuff heats up big time. If I had a coop on skids like Uno, bet my bottom dollar that the poop would be frozen from the bottom up. Wonder if I could ever get the guts to put my hand deep into the deepest part of the poopy piles below the roosts and see if it is warm in there. I am a rather curious girl, I have latex gloves that I keep in my chicken house, for "those" things that sometimes need to be done. OK, I really do wonder how warm or frozen or what, those poopy piles below the roosts are, the weather is warming up really fast, so if I need to discover heat in the chicken poopy piles, need to get on it pretty quickly. But....got my Sister and her clan here for the weekend, hey, she likes discovery, maybe we could do that together, and both get iched out, smiling that big smile. Sorry Dawn, took off on your post, but I hope it has made you smile. I have an evil smile on my face as I am thinking of some afternoon fun in the chicken house with my Sister, she does so love the chickens too have a most beautiful day, CynthiaM.

Uno and Cindi, again, thank you for your thoughts. I am on my way out the door to an event called Chicken Day and then off to the Nelson Opera tonight. I will read both posts carefully later and share my thoughts. Enjoy your day.

Just finding time to sit and really read your postings Cindi and Uno. It takes up valuable time to sit long enough and write such great information. Thank you both of you. I may consider keeping waterers outside only, next winter. I do have those heated metal bases and would just keep them outside under cover. I've heard the stories of frustration around those d*#n metal waterers and how much they leak and that is my experience with them as well. I find the more upsetting thing about them is how much you pay for them and that they do leak in the first year or two. Anyways, I too have painted wooden floors in my coops and the coops are built two feet off the ground but it doesn't get cold enough here consistently for the poop to freeze ongoing.

Uno thanks for the info on what other possibilities may be going on with my birds. I have had an egg bound chicken before and know the signs. That was a cool experience as the warm bath method worked like a charm. Impacted crop could be possible if it was just one bird but I do/did have 4 that weren't well. Now that a few days have passed one bird seems to have completely rallied, two are doing somewhat better and the fourth may not make it - - my wyandotte. It is hard not to treat her and let her ride it out. I keep thinking about 'vigour'.......breeding for vigour.....but I feel guilty at the same time I am not doing antibiotics for her. She's so beautiful. ANd there is no sign of vent gleet or Mareks.

Ciindi, I love your informative ramblings (smiling that big smile). THanks for your support. I did not dream of the day I would own chickens, although I've always been a great animal lover but boy when I got my first chicks, they seized my heart and never let go. It also helped that I had some extra cash (now spent!) and a supportive partner who built me my three coops. Other than my challenges like this most recent one I have been able to give my birds lovely, secure coops with big, fenced yards to forage in and nice outdoor covered spaces for protection from the elements. They are in good hands aside from my mistakes along the way due to being so new at it.

I still think the most recent 'unwellness' situation is a result of raking wet manure daily, however, if this one chicken passes I will put it on the bus the same day and send her body down to the Animal Health Centre here in BC and hopefully they will tell me what it is.

Okay, must go let the birds out now. Enjoy your day.

Dawn

[quote="ChicoryFarm"
Ciindi, I love your informative ramblings (smiling that big smile). THanks for your support. I did not dream of the day I would own chickens, although I've always been a great animal lover but boy when I got my first chicks, they seized my heart and never let go. It also helped that I had some extra cash (now spent!) and a supportive partner who built me my three coops.
[/quote]

Welcome....you have been fortunate that you have found that life partner that will put up with your silly chicken antics , not always do we have supportive support with our craziness in life of things we do, but when we do, boy we should shout to the stars, cause it is worth its weight in gold. I have that supportive life partner, and thank my own lucky stars every day. That poor man, the building, tearing down, rebuilding, redesigning....hope that one day will end for him, smiling now that huge smile!! Think I have my coops as perfect as I could ever get, thanks to his and my minds and bodies!! These things will work out, the gals will either make it or not, we know that, let's just hope for the good thing -- that they will fare well. You are learning so many things. Think it has only now been about two years since you been into the birds, with that first cluster of chicks? Beautiful days, CynthiaM.

Cindi - it will be two years this coming June. And re: supportive partner, he's been great AND we have had our tense moments, so he's not perfect but come to think of it nor am I. In fact, far less than he. For the most part he's been fabulous. You're right, not many would do what he's done. He just finished up two coops in late October, only a few short months ago and we just finished reno'ing one of them already for breeding. Bless his heart. There is light though at the end of the tunnel.