Members please read.

I have had a few concerns from people on their for sale posts. Please keep information only to buying or selling, if you have comments about certain aspects of the animals/items for sale please post a seperate topic to address this. That way our for sale/wanted ads stay cleaner. Also if your item is sold please change your title to SOLD so people know. Thank you.

I'm guessing this is directed at me.
My understanding of this is as follows: even if I know, with certainty, on the basis of genetics, that something in a "for sale" notice is inaccurate or misleading, I am not to comment on it, but that I should start a new thread. Is this correct?

I am thinking one could also probably respectfully contact the person in private so they could make changes to their ad without the 'clutter'.

Sue

Sounds reasonable to me

I have to ask is asking a question on what is being sold wrong?

I asked a question and it turned into lets slam the seller
I felt bad that I had even asked

i think its good when they comment so a person new to birds doesnt get shafted and buys birds that are not actually what they are called

Hmmm.....I do have some trouble with this. I know it is buyer beware, but if you see something that is wrong is it not correct to speak up?

If I was selling something and I was getting it wrong I would want someone to speak up. There is so much out there being sold that is not what it is supposed to be. It really rots me. I would not want to sell something to someone if it is not what it should be!!!

I am not saying my birds are perfect, by any stretch of the imagination, but I think I am their hardest critic. I would not sell something as a breed that had the wrong leg colour, wrong comb or wrong markings. If I did I would be upfront about them being a work in progress and point out all the faults so the buyer was informed. Or sell them as pretty layers if they do not represent the breed. It is just wrong to sell something when it is not what it is supposed to be.

If I was buying a car and there was one adveristed and someone pointed out that it was not what the ad said, I would be very thankful. It is up to the seller to represent their product as what it is, not what they want it to be, or think that it should be.

I know I sound harsh, but I think this is one of the reasons there is so many birds out there that do not represent what they are supposed to be and why people are so confused about stuff.

[quote="appway"]I have to ask is asking a question on what is being sold wrong?

I asked a question and it turned into lets slam the seller
I felt bad that I had even asked
[/quot

Questions are good there are only a few select few that that like to slam people they think they are better than everyone, that like to cast judgment and make a post that they think makes themselves look better, I think it is a class A personality, very difficult people to please because they know it all.

appway wrote:I have to ask is asking a question on what is being sold wrong?

I asked a question and it turned into lets slam the seller
I felt bad that I had even asked

If this thread was started for the reason I think it was, I don't think the seller was slammed, but they were selling something that had parents that were not good representatives of the breed they were advertising. People that were a bit more knowledgable spoke up to draw attention to this and the information was not appreciated.
This is something I feel pretty strongly about, but I will not get up on my soap box (or , that is I will try really hard not to. ), and I don't mean to offend but people really have to educate themselves about what a breed is supposed to look like before they start breeding and selling them.

Schipperkesue wrote:I am thinking one could also probably respectfully contact the person in private so they could make changes to their ad without the 'clutter'.

Sue

I think that is a good idea too, Sue, but that does not help to educate the other people that look at the product and possibly buy it. It also doesn't mean the seller will change anything and may just keep selling the product without informing the buyers what others have said.

I think that if you politely messaged the seller in private first, would be best. If no response or change to the ad was made, then post on the ad. Sometimes, sellers can just not know that they aren't accurately describing something. If not, then sure add to the post.

Just my two cents I'd rather have a private message if I was mis-representing something .. it might be an honest mistake, type-o, etc. I would gladly change my ad if that was the case. On the other hand, if people decided to turn it into a bashing session, I probably wouldn't post on that part of the forum again.

coopslave wrote:

Schipperkesue wrote:I am thinking one could also probably respectfully contact the person in private so they could make changes to their ad without the 'clutter'.

Sue

I think that is a good idea too, Sue, but that does not help to educate the other people that look at the product and possibly buy it. It also doesn't mean the seller will change anything and may just keep selling the product without informing the buyers what others have said.

Very true, CS. Perhaps if the seller does not right the wrongs when asked privately, then a mod should be contacted. This way a level of mutual respect could be maintained without embarassing the seller.

If the seller continues to make false advertising claims again, the mods should be able to deal with it appropriately.

This is actually an older thread started as a result of another issue, but all the good advice found here is appropriate for all selling interactions.

Some people are just to childish and like to slam and make others look bad when in fact to the people that matter they look bad

I always appreciate seeing pictures of the parents posted when chicks are offered for sale. That gives the potential buyer a chance to see first hand what is being offered and judge for themselves if this is what they are looking for. I have seen so many 'chicks for sale' postings on kijiji and other poultry forums that do not even offer the most basic information let alone a picture. and often it is the seller's first post they have ever made on that forum, so no ones knows them from Adam...And there are always people scrambling to buy. Just an observation.

Personally I would rather have any questions or concerns about a product I had for sale I would rather keep it private.

I am rather shocked and appalled at some of the posts on here tonight. I thought this forum was not supposed to be like that.

Unless some one is asking for a direct opinion I think any comments outside of the topic should be left unsaid.

fuzzyfriend I understand your concerns as a seller. What about as a buyer?

If you were going to buy something that was misrepresented, would you hope that someone had spoken up or just kept their knowledge to themselves?

I to thought some comments tonight were uncalled for. But I also think I see the people on this forum like my family. We don't always agree, but we look out for one another and are willing to give each other a heads up even when unsolicited.

O.K so I know this is probably directed at the question I asked about a particlur bird, which I thought I tried to be tactful about. Now I could have gone further with other pictures from previous ads but I didn't. I think that people buying here should have a reasonable expection of getting something that is purebred at the least if you are advertising the same.
I could have been a lot harsher on many birds whose pictures have been posted here but If they somewhat resemable what they are supposed to look like I will say nothing as I relizse that I cannot hold everyone to the same culling procedures that I hold for quality but sorry I don't see me private messaging anyone and "asking a simple question should be a heads up", that I am offended by the product you are putting forth as purebred. It is up to you as a "Breeder to know your breed and what they minimaly(spelling) should look like".

But if you want a separate thread so be it, now that may get harsh but actually what will happen is the pictures will cease and the sellers will go to private -email pictures, at which point I would encouage people to forward or ask people who may know about the breed for a second opinion on the quality of the parent stock. This is a nice forum and as I said people should be able to expect at the very least transparency among the sellers.

I would never say that I know everything but I have studied hard under the best and still only know a splat in the bucket but always seeking to know more and more about every breed of poultry.

Heather

Well as a buyer I think it's your job to do the research and know what your looking for and know what's correct for the breed your interested in. This place is full of knowledgable people so there is always someone to ask for help if you can't find what your looking for. Not everyone is looking for perfection but if u are you should know whom to ask to help find it. People looking for show quality will know where yo go to find it and should figure out what they are looking for.

Having not been on for a few days (and not read the "offensive" posts) I have a thought (or two). As a buyer, I purchased supposedly purebred stock that I thought I might be able to make some money off (by selling eggs and chicks). Later, I found out that it wasn't as "pure" as I'd been led to believe. So now I'm stuck with a breed that actually isn't useful to sell as breeding stock.

I would have appreciated someone saying to me "those parent birds are not up to standard" before I purchased. (Note: it was not on this board nor through anyone here). Why is it so bad to point out publicly that certain birds are not up to show quality standards? As a seller, I'd rather know this before I sold, rather than being ragged on at a later date for misrepresenting my stock.

I remember when I started in poultry and all I wanted was some nice "purebred" birds for the yard, so I did my research as I do with everything ("anal") found a recommended breeder and bought my chicks at a dear price for those days I might add. Bought them home and spent money raising them up only to relaizse at some point I had not one bird that actually looked remotely what it should look like all were crosses. I assume she had her females running with the males and had not separated long enough before greed over took her and she set eggs. Never did get any replacements or my money back, what a rip off.
So many people are like as I was starting off and I don't think it's too much to ask Seller's to at least read there breed Standard and Oh- maybe look at a picture on the breed club internet site to see that your parent stock should kinda look like esp. if your plans are to market these as purebred. Obviously people selling have internet access as they manage to get to this site.

People just need to be honest and if you have Hatchery stock state it if your stock is somewhat better then you should be able to stand up and say your breed type is good bad or indifferent, if you don't know ask breeders who do know there are enough of them here. I love when I see sellers here who are completely honest about the quality of their stock hatchery or not and they should be proud of themselves for their honesty. Knowledge is power and it shouldn't matter if your selling dogs, chickens or horses. It's all about reputation and of course it's buyer beware but as with everything some can sure talk a smooth line and I would not want to be a first time buyer in such a arena.

Anyway no hard feelings and happy hatching everyone.

Heather

This whole forum is build first and foremost for selling poultry and not breeding for perfection. However, this is a public forum and unless you lock the thread as soon as someone post a for sale add, you can expect honest replies from people who care. And whether is is good or negative comment, the buyer and seller are being helped with more info posted by others. Hopefully the buyer might pick up on pointers and take it to hart and use some of that when he selects his breeding pens for the next go around. How come every time when someone posts an honest and true fact, people get upset over it, because it might hurt a sale. I am not being rude, but plain honest instead. If you rather have only sweet and happy replies I would have to start lying, but I don't do that.

When someone posts another for sale add with picture, just lock it moderators, that will solve your concern. As far as buying a pig in a poke, that always will happen to the ones who don't research, but buy on impulse instead. Most often those will not care for the quality they get anyway and happily carry on with what they got, and that is fine. But don't blame the breeder you got your stock from for selling birds that are not what you had hoped for, hatching eggs are buying chickens sight unseen and pictures tell only so much. I never buy eggs, maybe only when I see the parent birds, weigh them and feel them. I have seen enough LF flocks with too many hens and one lanky 4.0lbs rooster to cover all hens for egg selling and it is very sad, but hey they lay nice dark eggs..

Piet

viczoe wrote:O.K so I know this is probably directed at the question I asked about a particlur bird, which I thought I tried to be tactful about. Now I could have gone further with other pictures from previous ads but I didn't. I think that people buying here should have a reasonable expection of getting something that is purebred at the least if you are advertising the same.
I could have been a lot harsher on many birds whose pictures have been posted here but If they somewhat resemable what they are supposed to look like I will say nothing as I relizse that I cannot hold everyone to the same culling procedures that I hold for quality but sorry I don't see me private messaging anyone and "asking a simple question should be a heads up", that I am offended by the product you are putting forth as purebred. It is up to you as a "Breeder to know your breed and what they minimaly(spelling) should look like".

But if you want a separate thread so be it, now that may get harsh but actually what will happen is the pictures will cease and the sellers will go to private -email pictures, at which point I would encouage people to forward or ask people who may know about the breed for a second opinion on the quality of the parent stock. This is a nice forum and as I said people should be able to expect at the very least transparency among the sellers.

I would never say that I know everything but I have studied hard under the best and still only know a splat in the bucket but always seeking to know more and more about every breed of poultry.

Heather

Heather this was not directed at you in any way so please do not feel it was.

I have thought this over last night, since I couldnt sleep much anyways, and I think that people should be able to post questions in a sale ad. I think you are correct in saying that breeders should be held accountable for their breeding stock,and if they get upset about simple questions I am sorry about that. I think everyone on here (or at least I hope)is here to learn as much as they can to improve upon their stock.
I think questions should be honest questions and not slander to the seller. Asking about colors, feet, combs, etc, anything that maybe be different or incorrect according to the standard should not be an issue.
As long as we keep it friendly I see not problems with this.

I hope those involved will understand my take on this, and if not please forward your questions to me by PM or email and I will do my best to answer them.

fuzzylittlefriend wrote:This place is full of knowledgable people so there is always someone to ask for help if you can't find what your looking for.

Well said! We need to use each other's eksperience here to get the birds we are looking for, be they a backyard flock or quality show birds.

As far as last night's comments went, and I am talking both sides here, there is a fine line between an honest question about poor quality animals and a question designed to 'get someone's goat'and stir the pot. I saw both.

I think this is a valuable post and do not have time to respond properly to it, as I am heading out the door in a few minutes, but need to say.

It is wrong, totally wrong, to sell, what is purported to be a purebreed bird that is a cross bred bird. That is wrong, wrong, wrong. Did I mention that is wrong? If one does not know if the bird is PUREBREED or not, that person should be selling that bird as a cross, not a purebreed. sometimes purbreed birds can get mixed up with another breed, and the offspring will not be that purebreed, I can see that. Crap happens. I think most people know if they are selling a purebred bird or not, or should anyways. Period.

Now there is the purebreed bird that is not of great and huge quality and kind of looks like what that breed should look like, but is still a purebreed, that is another can of worms.

Now there is the purebreed bird that is mediocre, looks OK, looks kind of what the bird should look like, these are all according to the standard of the bird breed. That is another can of worms.

Then there is the exhibition quality of birds, that look like the breed should look like. That too is another can of worms.

So which can of worms are we opening here? I am confused by this topic and really want to say more, but just sure what to say.

I think the main point of all this is that whatever caliber of bird we have we need to let the public know, pictures of parent stock are very good.

This has probably gone off topic in my words too, but I agree with some of these posts, some I don't agree. I do not think anyone should sell a bird that could be a cross bred bird when it should be a purebreed bird and I agree, that should be made known, however it is.....gotta stop now, as I think my words are confusing my very tired mind, have a most beautiful day, CynthiaM.

Hidden Didn't think it was directed at me but I did open that can of worms so to speak. One thing that I don't like though is the ungentlemanly conduct that goes with some of the replies,if people have problems between each other they really should keep it to themselves as this is not a contest of chest thumping. Keep the questions and comments nice without being cheeky and all should be well and perhaps everyone can use it as a learning exprience. No bird is perfect and I have no perfect one's here but if you are proud of your birds and if I wasn't so picture posting challanged, I would post more and would look forward to any and all comments and would in fact take my own birds to task.

This decision by Jayme will only lift this forum to a higher level and them that are protraying themselves as breeders but are not somewhat confident that their parent stock looks modestly as they should just will not post pictures of their parent stock. If you are just dealing be up front about it and let's all be repectfully when asking or commenting on any birds, which for the most part happens. I will rarely comment on anyone's birds unless asked but sometimes one has to draw a line.

Anyway off to the barn to check my hatcher as I have wee chicks making their way out into this world.

Heather