this comes to you by Omega Blue Farms

Late last winter, a fellow from Hendrix Genetics contacted me to talk turkey and introduce their new product, the Orlopp Bronze. For those that don't know, ALL the commercial poultry in the world (turkey, chicken, eggs) is controlled by 3 corporations, Hendix being part of one of them. The saleman gave the impression that their Orlopp was an improved heritage bronze. However further investigation reveilled that it was really just a big white, dressed in bronze feathers. The Orlopp is a true Broad Breasted Bird, while the much smaller Rochester Bronze is really what one would call a Primitive Broad Breasted, and is a bona fide Standard Bred Bronze.

I asked the salesman whether the Orlopp genepool was protected or whether I could use it in my breeding. I couldn't get a straight answer but his responses suggested that he was not marketing breeding stock. Given that Hendrix is one of the big boys patenting every living thing they can get their hands on, I feel it's a safe bet that the Orlopp is patented as well.

Now one thing about the conversation continues to bother me, why was this fella wasting his time with a relative nobody in the turkey trade? I am not a permit/quota grower, and I don't buy turkey poults from the hatcheries. Since I make my own, I'm pretty much off the radar of the commercial turkey world. So why me? But he didn't just contact me, he contacted others in the heritage turkey world as well. What is the economic justification for this? There is no way that marketing to us small timers could ever cover his salary. So why is he doing it?

Well this is just speculation on my part, but I feel there is an agenda to replace our publically owned heritage bronze with the patented Orlopp. It is suspected that Rochester shipped some of these Orlopp in place of their own line this year. The ones I saw in juvenile plumage had much more white on the wings/sides and looked muddy next to the proper coloured bronze.

I recently learned of an effort for several small timers to make a bulk order of these Orlopp hatching eggs here on the Island. This leaves me with two questions:

1) If one wanted a factory bred turkey, why not save a couple bucks and stick with the whites?

2) Most of us are in this with a goal of preserving the genetic diversity of our heritage poultry. One of the people bringing in the Orlopp and promoting it's use is a member of Island Heritage Livestock, the local chapter of Rare Breeds Canada. How is replacing publically owned heritage bronze genepools going to help support the conservation of our heritage breeds?

I personally don't understand the logic of it all.
APA Grand Master Breeder of Rhode Island Red, Black Muscovy, Bronze Turkey, & African Geese. Also breeding Araucana, Ameraucana, & Malay standard chickens. Blue, & Chocolate Muscovies, Saxony, & Khaki Campbell ducks. Blackwinged/Sweetgrass style Turkeys.

Patented life is as far off my wanted list as STDs and cancer. I have a major problem with anything that can be called such as well as Genetically Modified/Engineered substances that pose as meat or any sort of sustinance. It's our right to natural, heritage breeds and to have an acurate representation from Rare Breeds Canada which serves as part of my motivation for picking certain breeds. Isn't there a way to report this and have that division looked into?

This angers me, outrages me in fact and makes my blood boil -- it's absolutely unacceptable. I greatly appreciate you sharing this news.

I got permission to re post this here it needed to be shared with every one all credit goes to OMEGA BLUE for the post.

So jon, just for clarification, this was Omega Blue's experience but you're posting it for him?

that is correct

ChicoryFarm wrote:So jon, just for clarification, this was Omega Blue's experience but you're posting it for him?

I have personally sent a email to our local hatchery asking why they are selling a Hybrid turkey instead of a heritage breed instead ? I think that if we all boycoted buying them then the message would be out there loud and clear that this is not accepted ...............my thoughts

prairie dog wrote:I have personally sent a email to our local hatchery asking why they are selling a Hybrid turkey instead of a heritage breed instead ? I think that if we all boycoted buying them then the message would be out there loud and clear that this is not accepted ...............my thoughts

I don't think us as small consumers/purchasers are going to affect their market. It is the large commercial opperations that want the biggest bang for their buck, and rarely do you see anything but white turkeys in their operations.

jon.w wrote:that is correct

ChicoryFarm wrote:So jon, just for clarification, this was Omega Blue's experience but you're posting it for him?

Jon, why don't you extend an invitation to Omega Blue to join and make his own posts here?

Sue

This is interesting, I remember something about that post, think it was made elsewhere some time ago. Glad we figured out who was writing in the post, cause it kind of confused me why you were talking about someone contacting you regarding turkeys, just me, I guess, I get confused easily. I think this is deplorable and just another reason for me to never order birds through hatcheries, but go straight to the breeder. Seems like our lines of heritage turkeys could be in big trouble if people start mixing them all up with hybrids. Have a great day, CynthiaM.

Schipperkesue wrote:

jon.w wrote:that is correct

ChicoryFarm wrote:So jon, just for clarification, this was Omega Blue's experience but you're posting it for him?

Jon, why don't you extend an invitation to Omega Blue to join and make his own posts here?

Sue

Have no fear, Omega is already here.

Regardless of how it came about, it's good to spread the word on this stuff.

The issue here is more of "White Eggs versus Brown Eggs" than anything about genetics. The Orlopp Bronze is a fast growing "hybrid" that doesn't grow into a 40 pound monster if kept too long. The toms finish at about 30 pounds, but are a good size at 16 weeks.

"Genetically modified" implies that a gene has been "spliced" into the basic genetic structure of the plant or animal. Orlopps were developed by crossing different varieties of turkeys to obtain the fast growth rate in the same way as any modern turkey variety was developed. The Nicholas White is a similar hybrid.

I don't see people parading placards when the local feed store offers such hybrid chickens as ISA Browns, Hyliners, or Hubbards. These have become completely acceptable for the smaller producer.

I'm pretty sure you aren't involved with turkey production, Jon, and you've got to be careful when passing on this kind of composition that the originator doesn't have alterior motives or as the saying goes "other axes to grind".

so you are all for people coming on to your farm and taking your birds and and suing you. and I take it you did not read all of the post.

turkeylurkey wrote:The issue here is more of "White Eggs versus Brown Eggs" than anything about genetics. The Orlopp Bronze is a fast growing "hybrid" that doesn't grow into a 40 pound monster if kept too long. The toms finish at about 30 pounds, but are a good size at 16 weeks.

"Genetically modified" implies that a gene has been "spliced" into the basic genetic structure of the plant or animal. Orlopps were developed by crossing different varieties of turkeys to obtain the fast growth rate in the same way as any modern turkey variety was developed. The Nicholas White is a similar hybrid.

I don't see people parading placards when the local feed store offers such hybrid chickens as ISA Browns, Hyliners, or Hubbards. These have become completely acceptable for the smaller producer.

I'm pretty sure you aren't involved with turkey production, Jon, and you've got to be careful when passing on this kind of composition that the originator doesn't have alterior motives or as the saying goes "other axes to grind".

Part of the issue (for me) is the misleading marketing. If you buy a hybrid chicken at the feed store, you can ask and they'll tell you it is a hybrid chicken. They aren't claiming that it is an Improved Heritage New Hampshire Red.

I here you on this part thank you

Fowler wrote:Part of the issue (for me) is the misleading marketing. If you buy a hybrid chicken at the feed store, you can ask and they'll tell you it is a hybrid chicken. They aren't claiming that it is an Improved Heritage New Hampshire Red.

I'm not sure why people would come on to my farm and sue me, Jon.

Pick up a copy of Rochester's catalogue at one of their agents. Guess What? They now offer Orlopp Bronze Turkey Poults!

I have no delusions of breeding Orlopps. Nor, do I think anyone else in the region is considering it. I do however breed a couple of "Heritage" Varieties, promoting them as a self-propagating bird for the small holdings or backyard grower.

Its a "crying shame" to think that Rochester's strain of Broad Breasted Bronze is going to disappear. There are still a few small flocks around and an opportunity for a dedicated breeder to take them on as did Bill Braden in Ontario with the Beltsville White.

I don't believe you could be sued for breeding these Orlopps. Higher life forms are not patentable under Canadian law; however individual genes that have been greated and inserted into the genome are. So far, there have been no GM animals approved for Canadian production (although there are a couple on the verge), thus these birds can't have been patented.

What the big producers often do is breed in deleterious recessive alleles into their commercial stock, so that if you try to breed from that stock alone, you'll get a significant proportion of defective offspring (I don't know if that's been done with the Orlopps). In any case, this is not the same as patenting. It's not illegal to breed from these or any other birds.

I agree with Turkeylurkey with respect to the acceptability of hybrids for the small producer. We're really mixing several different issues here - the regretable demise of a valuable strain of a heritage breed, the ownership and patentability of life forms, and the acceptability of hybrids in general.

I don't think there has ever been an issue with somebody attempting to breed the Orlopp hybrid in a small flock situation. Mating would have to be by AI as the toms also get too heavy to mate the hens.

I think there might be a bit of "professional jealousy" floating around amongst certain individuals who have a perception that the Orlopp might be a strong competitor to the product they are producing.

Hendrix Genetics offered the Orlopp to a couple of the local turkey fanciers in an attempt to regenerate interest in the variety in Western Canada. The primary advantage is that it is fast growing and finishes smaller than the Nicholas White. This allows a producer to be able to offer a "bronze" product timely to Canadian Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Information about the origination of the breed and migration from England to Canada can be found at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

try this link [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

sorry that was the link for the pitcher on the link I was trying to share with you, the link is about cooking but it has some thing interesting about the Orlopp Bronze. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Well, I think it is disappointing that Rochester is now only offering two choices of turkey poults - the Orlopp Bronze or the Nicholas White. Those that would prefer a heritage turkey breed will have to order from another hatchery or find a breeder. This hatchery does offer a small selection of heritage breed chickens...so I guess I would expect a heritage alternative in the turkeys too.

I also agree that using the word "Heirloom" is misleading. Many people are going to order these thinking they are raising heritage turkeys. How many will be processed and mistakenly sold to consumers as Heritage Turkey? Does it matter? I think so. People have a right to know what they are buying and eating.

It all comes back to the difference in taste between a white chicken egg and a brown chicken egg. As long as the chickens that laid the egg are fed the same food and raised in the same conditions, the eggs taste identical. If two different varieties of turkeys, say Nicholas White and Ridley Bronze are raised to the same age and cooked under indentical conditions it will be difficult for anyone to tell which is better tasting.

When recommending to my customers which turkey they should raise I recommend basing their selection on which size they require to feed their family.

Hidden River wrote:

prairie dog wrote:I have personally sent a email to our local hatchery asking why they are selling a Hybrid turkey instead of a heritage breed instead ? I think that if we all boycoted buying them then the message would be out there loud and clear that this is not accepted ...............my thoughts

I don't think us as small consumers/purchasers are going to affect their market. It is the large commercial opperations that want the biggest bang for their buck, and rarely do you see anything but white turkeys in their operations.

I truly adore all of you, but I really feel that it's the one-man-won't-matter mentality that everyone has today that is keeping stuff like this around. If you consider the Random act of kindness, pay it forward initiative, you can see how quickly a movement can explode. This poultry/livestock world seems like a tightly knit one, and if one, trustworthy person tells someone like me (newb) not to buy a line or from a particular organization, you bet I'd listen; I'd also tell any other newbs, who'd tell their newbs and so on. All it takes is one, and they don't have to be newbs!

One of my favorite quotes is: One raindrop never thinks its it blame for the flood, as one snowflake is not to blame for the avalanche.

Think about that sayings reflection: One rain drop that didn't fall is never to blame for the drought.

One person is worth it.

Sweetened wrote:

Hidden River wrote:

prairie dog wrote:I have personally sent a email to our local hatchery asking why they are selling a Hybrid turkey instead of a heritage breed instead ? I think that if we all boycoted buying them then the message would be out there loud and clear that this is not accepted ...............my thoughts

I don't think us as small consumers/purchasers are going to affect their market. It is the large commercial opperations that want the biggest bang for their buck, and rarely do you see anything but white turkeys in their operations.

I truly adore all of you, but I really feel that it's the one-man-won't-matter mentality that everyone has today that is keeping stuff like this around. If you consider the Random act of kindness, pay it forward initiative, you can see how quickly a movement can explode. This poultry/livestock world seems like a tightly knit one, and if one, trustworthy person tells someone like me (newb) not to buy a line or from a particular organization, you bet I'd listen; I'd also tell any other newbs, who'd tell their newbs and so on. All it takes is one, and they don't have to be newbs!

One of my favorite quotes is: One raindrop never thinks its it blame for the flood, as one snowflake is not to blame for the avalanche.

Think about that sayings reflection: One rain drop that didn't fall is never to blame for the drought.

One person is worth it.

I agree word of mouth is very fast and very bold in the industry. But what I was saying with Hatchery like Bergs who sells 90% to Commerical farmers (Hutterites, meat barns, etc) they are not going to be influenced that much by a few of us complaining to them.
I think it is important that we all share our experiences with everyone we can, and the good and bad, we can make a movement to go against the Commerical Hybrids, and to do this we need to start purchasing the true heritage birds from Heritage breeders!

KathyS wrote:Well, I think it is disappointing that Rochester is now only offering two choices of turkey poults - the Orlopp Bronze or the Nicholas White. Those that would prefer a heritage turkey breed will have to order from another hatchery or find a breeder. This hatchery does offer a small selection of heritage breed chickens...so I guess I would expect a heritage alternative in the turkeys too.

I also agree that using the word "Heirloom" is misleading. Many people are going to order these thinking they are raising heritage turkeys. How many will be processed and mistakenly sold to consumers as Heritage Turkey? Does it matter? I think so. People have a right to know what they are buying and eating.

These turkeys resulted by breeding an English BBB to an American BBB, to produce the Orlopp, they aren't GMO'd there aren't any weird genes planted in them. I raised BSW and a friend raised Orlopps. I can't say that there was any difference in the turkeys meat quality or taste. It all depends on what you are feeding them, Good food and forage gives you good meat.