More predator guilt.

No. I'm not quite over shooting that bobcat.

Horsey Daughter put a picture of dead wild kitty on her Facebook and as you expect the comments come flooding in. The one that bothered me most was a short one from a former neighbour who used to live up here. Comment said, "Way to be, kill the only bobcat on the mountain." I was horrified!

SO I have been mulling over my predator philosophy. Asking myself if my thoughts make any sense. I lay them before you here and maybe I make sense and maybe I don't. I'm sure you will tell me.

I accept that living in this bushed area, we are going to lose chickens. I am not stupid enough to think that nothing will ever nab a chicken.


This is my predator philosophy: I feel great sympathy for anything hungry. Starvation as a means of death is ugly and to be avoided for all living creatures, if possible. Starvation hurts, a lot. So if my birds are out ranging and a coyote comes by, grabs one and takes off, thus is the circle of life. Goodbye chicken, goodbye coyote, I hope that bird fed you and your babies. I too am a mother, I too felt that maternal urge to see the survival of my young.

Even the bears when they broke in ate everything, and destroyed everything! They ate the scratch and ate all the chicks and whatever chickens they could nab.

BUT....it's the endless, gleeful killing of more birds than can be eaten that makes me angry. This is now not about survival, this is about a murderou spree. Had I found that bobcat gnawing on the one chicken he had killed, hastily filling his empty stomach, I would have been mad, but I can tell you that his chances at being let out of the pen would have gone way up. Instead, the 'hungry' kitty had killed three birds. No way he could have eaten three! He was NOT putting his time/energy into actually filling his belly. No, he went on a murderous rampage and until I showed up to stop him, I bet he would have gone on killing for the pure joy of the sport!

MY BIRDS ARE NOT YOUR SPORT! I will sacrifice one to save your life, but I will not sacrifice many so you can have a jolly good time hunting them!

I am sure Mr. Bobcat was not thinking in those terms. That was unfortunate. Had he been so hungry that he was motivated to wiggle his way in somewhere (still don't know where) then he should have been driven to eat immediately. Quit killing, start eating. That I can live with. But to kill and kill and kill again...that I will not tolerate. I find raccoons even bigger offenders. They kill because it's fun.

Live and let live is my approach and I will let go of the odd bird that is taken to sustain life. But I draw my line at hunters who kill for sport and I am insulted and upset to be accused of taking that bobcat's life as if it had no consequence or importance. That is not at all what we thought and not at all how we felt. We felt bad and still do. Beyond bad. But who feels bad for the mangled chickens spread all over the place? We are not ruthless killers and we sure don't want to have to come eye to eye with any critter who is. But if it comes to that, and it has, what is one to do?

You did what you had to do, period. Any responsible animal owner would have done the same to protect their livestock.

You make the choices you make for you. I don't think anyone should judge you. What was done is done. I won't say whether I think it was right or wrong, or whether I believe I would have done the same thing or not. I will say that I think you did what was right for you in your circumstances.
Don't let the noise of other people into your head. If you are anything like me, you have enough noise of your own!

authenticfarm wrote:You did what you had to do, period. Any responsible animal owner would have done the same to protect their livestock.

Uno---I agree with this whole-heartedly!! and I dont think that your philosophy on the taking care of predators is flawed--- in fact, I think it is the best, most eliquently put philosophy! (but of course, I expect nothing but that from you~~ you have the greatest way of putting thoughts to paper)

I agree whole heartedly with your philosophy, Uno. That bobcat was not in the mountain: it was in your chicken coop wrecking havoc. You have the right to protect your living space and what is yours in it. Seems some people think that every other "species" has the right to hunt and protect except humans. When predators come that close to human dwellings they can be a danger not only to livestock but also to people. Once an animal gets used to human smell and is not afraid to hunt in one's backyard, so to speak, it's next hunt may take it into a yard with someone with small children. At least that's my thoughts when a predator gets this close. Around here it is coyotes who are getting increasingly brave and they make me nervous because they seem to be losing the fear of human scent. Anyway, I've rambled on long enough - just my thoughts.

UNO , don't let this get you down. I completely understand where you are coming from and have gone through very similar stuff. I also don't mind as much when a single coyote takes a single chicken but I have had a rouge coyote come and kill 40 adult chickens in one hour of rampage but I sent him to visit his forefathers and I could care less what the angry tree huggers think. It is too bad that your daughter put that pic up on face book. Sometimes they don't understand what can happen as a result.

"only one on the mountain", what do they think it is? A hermit? in the winter, they can have ranges of 100 square km. Don't worry. Nature made certain that we males are quite expendable.

As for killing multiple birds, given the time of year, I would guess it was probably taking extra to cache for later use.

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Why in the heck did your daughter do something so dumb as putting that picture up on FB????? SERIOUSLY? Right there you should expect to get comments you are not going to like and are going to be hard to hear.

Even myself, I thought very carefully in how I responded to your first topic on what happened because I had a very different reaction at first. Then remembered that if faced with the same situation, how would I have dealt with it? Hope I never have to find out.

Though I will speak my thoughts about my personal feelings about predators. I am with you Uno in that I will not begrudge loosing a bird to a pred. That is why I have enclosed runs that I have taken the time to pred-proof as best as I can. Saying that, I do let some birds out to free range. I will curse myself if I loose a bird because it is my fault if I do because I should know better than letting them run around loose in the first place.

However, I disagree with you on the wanton killing point. Cats especially are notorious for it. I have cats. THey just don't kill a mouse and eat it becuase they are hungry. My cats kill lots of mice, voles and birds. One of my cats even brought how a baby duck from somewhere once. They have even killed the odd baby weasel for me. Cats are killing machines. It's what they do. Wild cats, like that bobcat usually miss more meals than they get. It likely saw your coop as a festive meal and no sense repeating the crime scene as you know what happened. It just did what a cat does.

When a wild animal looses it's fear of man it becomes a problem animal ! Doesn't matter if it's a weasel or a bear ,they all have that built into them to avoid us .I agree with the statement as to why she posted it on FB ? It's just a glorified gossip colume and all it does is warrent unwanted comments ! What if that cat had attached you or your hubby ? would people think differently then ? I hunt and I see a lot of what Mother Nature hands out and it's no different then what you did ,I'd even say what you did was kinder ! I've counted over fifty yearling deer ,yes fifty yearlings curled up in a section ( a half a mile square ) of the area that we hunted in and they had all startved to death and died ! Cruel , NO ! it's the way that nature works and between you and me I'd rather take a bullet then starve and die a cruel slow lingering death ! Some animal get caught up in the thrill of the kill and will continue untill everything is dead ,it's the nature of the beast as it were !Seldom will they come and take only what they can eat at one sitting unless they are in a pack , I wouldn't let it bother me in any way ,some people just are ignorent towards all things that don't fit into there perfect little world

Bobcat kills for food. Human kills bobcat to protect food. Same damn thing if you ask me. Anyone laying the guilt trip on you can go pound sand.

I have to say would you feel guilty for killing it if it had horsey daugther cornered? You counsins sledding kids? Your future grandchildren? If it had gone after a child and got away there would be a man hunt on for it! If your neighbours dog did the same thing you have the legal right to shoot it so why would the bob cat be any different?

Dont beat yourself up about it and give your horsey daughter a adult spanking for a poor lack of judgment.

I know that you regretted the action you had to take and if there was any reasonable alternative you would have taken it. But there was no reasonable alternative. The only alternative (note the absence of the word reasonable) would have been to leave the bobcat in the coop to finish off the hens at his leisure then take his leave. That would have given you nightmares. So regret yes, guilt NO. About the facebook thing, that is too bad that occurred. Great way to grab an audience but this sort of thing just gets an emotional reaction and gets people on their high horse like they are the all knowing. If people (talking about the people who are so quick to judge and criticize) ever really stopped to think about the ripple effect of each and every action they take every day, they might show a bit more understanding and humility. Uno, you did what you needed to do in the situation you were faced with.

On a lighter note, I keep reading the title of this thread as "More predator quilt" and then thinking about a fur quilt made out of the fiercest predators in Canada.

Okay! (doing some deep knee bends and a few one handed push ups)

Man up! No self pity! Woman who live on mountain must bust bear and whack cat. Her makum fur quilt and kick Facebook daughter in place not Facebook! ME cavewoman..me have cave contract on R. Roo! Whomp on head!

I am NUO, hear me roar! (one eyed cavewoman who lost eye to sabre tooth tiger)

authenticfarm wrote:On a lighter note, I keep reading the title of this thread as "More predator quilt" and then thinking about a fur quilt made out of the fiercest predators in Canada.

Like that idea!

uno wrote:Okay! (doing some deep knee bends and a few one handed push ups)

Man up! No self pity! Woman who live on mountain must bust bear and whack cat. Her makum fur quilt and kick Facebook daughter in place not Facebook! ME cavewoman..me have cave contract on R. Roo! Whomp on head!

I am NUO, hear me roar! (one eyed cavewoman who lost eye to sabre tooth tiger)

Go you my knuckle dragging sister! Go you

Ya crap. Things that are said can be very damaging. Yes, ask anyone that charges at you with something like, way to go, you killed the only bobcat on the mountain, what they would do if that frickin' cat came after their kid. Is it any different? I don't know. Meat is meat, right, human, animal, I think that a cat would view any form of movement that something alive would make would be considered meat. Yes. I can be my botttom dollar if a kid was out playing that bobcat would not have hesitated to take it. That cat was too close for comfort. Period. Crappy Uno, that you have been attacked like that and it is sickening. Put the shoe on the other foot, person, might fit.

don't take it to heart and let it slide off your back, ya, hard to do, I know. These things are hurtful and cause us to feel awful. You need to tell Daughter to get that picture off facebook though, first things first and tell her why. She will probably understand and comply. Maybe you have done this already. You don't need hate mail. Sorry this happened, I really am. Hugs to you girl, and try to find something to make this day more happy, CynthiaM.

I, too, thought it would be something like this;

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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Heh, nope. Although my Grandmother did and my sister still does, I'm afraid the quilting gene missed me.

authenticfarm wrote:On a lighter note, I keep reading the title of this thread as "More predator quilt" and then thinking about a fur quilt made out of the fiercest predators in Canada.

That is what I keep seeing still Authentic! I guess the words quilt an Uno just naturally go together in my brain.

Hope things have gotten better for you Uno. You have had a crappy couple of days.

CynthiaM wrote: You need to tell Daughter to get that picture off facebook though, first things first and tell her why. She will probably understand and comply. Maybe you have done this already. You don't need hate mail. Sorry this happened, I really am. Hugs to you girl, and try to find something to make this day more happy, CynthiaM.

Facebook would be the last place I would have shared a picture like this. It would have been a different story if it was a picture of the bobcat eating your cute little lap dog. What would people say than? Oh well princess has gone to a better place now. We will just go down to the pet store and buy a new little lap dog. Yeah right.

I had not responded to the posts on this subject prior. But I cant hold my tongue (fingers) anymore.

There are those of us that live in the bush, that live in the city, that live in the country, that live in so many different places with different perspectives. I love wild life. I love to shoot pictures when I can. I am not that good, but hey, I like it. I find it peaceful to be out there, camera in hand, no kids in tow.

I also hunt. I do not do it for the thrill (but I can tell you it can be a thrill), but because it helps to supplement our food. When hunting, we kill what we eat. When we have problems with deer and elk eatting the cattle feed beyond normal times, we tell neighbors that have tags they can take one. After a few are out here, there is no more problem and we all eat.

I also have had very similar issues with animals taking livestock. After loosing so much livestock to predators, I no longer hesitate. We do this for a living. Not just for the supplemental food. I learned the hard way. Some loss is to be expected. However, killing that many is not.

Two years ago we had 150 white turkeys that we raised from day olds and they were four months. Dang close to butchering. A SINGLE FOX came to visit. Took out all but 20 of them in a matter of an hour. I had just fed them and I came in to make lunch for my own kids. One of the daughters was playing outside, no more then 100 yards from where the coop and pen was. She thought it was a cat in the turkey pen. She (just turned 4 at the time) walked over there. She came running back yelling about a fox. We grabbed the rifle and ran out. We spent three hours out there. No sooner then we left, we would see it come back. It was watching to wait for us to leave. We did shoot it. It no longer caused a problem. I look at it this way. Some loss, ok. Wiping me out where I cant feed my own family? No, I will stop that dead in its tracks. Literally. Do I feel sorry for them? I used to. I learned to focus on what I have left and feel sorry for anything that is left alive and injured and put my energy into making them better.

I know I probably sound harsh. But my mother instinct is to protect my very young children from anything. That includes going hungry because of a predator killing our food.

And I love the idea of the "quilt" lol!

pfarms wrote:I had not responded to the posts on this subject prior. But I cant hold my tongue (fingers) anymore.

There are those of us that live in the bush, that live in the city, that live in the country, that live in so many different places with different perspectives. I love wild life. I love to shoot pictures when I can. I am not that good, but hey, I like it. I find it peaceful to be out there, camera in hand, no kids in tow.

I also hunt. I do not do it for the thrill (but I can tell you it can be a thrill), but because it helps to supplement our food. When hunting, we kill what we eat. When we have problems with deer and elk eatting the cattle feed beyond normal times, we tell neighbors that have tags they can take one. After a few are out here, there is no more problem and we all eat.

I also have had very similar issues with animals taking livestock. After loosing so much livestock to predators, I no longer hesitate. We do this for a living. Not just for the supplemental food. I learned the hard way. Some loss is to be expected. However, killing that many is not.
We said pfarms.
Two years ago we had 150 white turkeys that we raised from day olds and they were four months. Dang close to butchering. A SINGLE FOX came to visit. Took out all but 20 of them in a matter of an hour. I had just fed them and I came in to make lunch for my own kids. One of the daughters was playing outside, no more then 100 yards from where the coop and pen was. She thought it was a cat in the turkey pen. She (just turned 4 at the time) walked over there. She came running back yelling about a fox. We grabbed the rifle and ran out. We spent three hours out there. No sooner then we left, we would see it come back. It was watching to wait for us to leave. We did shoot it. It no longer caused a problem. I look at it this way. Some loss, ok. Wiping me out where I cant feed my own family? No, I will stop that dead in its tracks. Literally. Do I feel sorry for them? I used to. I learned to focus on what I have left and feel sorry for anything that is left alive and injured and put my energy into making them better.

I know I probably sound harsh. But my mother instinct is to protect my very young children from anything. That includes going hungry because of a predator killing our food.

And I love the idea of the "quilt" lol!

Well ain't that the truth about the matter.
Well said.