Ya, the bad and the ugly

I thought there was a forum for bad things that happen. I have had a bad thing happen here on our farm, well, bad to me, and sad to me, and it is something that I don't need hugs for, or condolences, but just need to give a story, so others can learn too. I have learned a valuable lesson about trust. I am far too trusting.

We had a friend of our Daughter whose farm we live on) come over with a reckless dog. Normally no dogs bother birds here. The people said dog was chicken friendly,when asked, to which end the dog was let out of the vehicle. This rather large dog, looked like some kind of wire terrier (don't even know if that is what the breed is called, but it was a big, scuffy, young dog) proceeded to chase chickens, all over. Eventually the dog was contained, but only after it cornered a buckeye hen all the way up at my house in the trees. This is a safe haven for the birds here, so this has rocked my socks. All my birds free range everyday, from the moment their doors are opened in the morning, until when they decide it is bedtime around dusk. I heard a weird sound coming from the hen when I personally saw it corner that buckeye hen in one of the elderberry shrubs, and thought nothing of it, but it was an odd chicken sound. The day before yesterday when I picked up one buckeye cause she wasn't doing too well, she had a huge laceration on her side, the entire side and the skin had pulled away and was a big flap. Sigh. Very bad and she would not have made it through winter with no feathers on that side, my decision was made to cull her. A cold chicken is not a healthy chicken, with regard to zero feathers on one side of the body. I have a tough love, and will not baby a chicken either, she would have needed a very warm place to live. I don't do that. I lost another buckeye a day before that, just waned away, I think she may have had had bite damage that I could see. One day well, the night laying below a nest box, the next morning dead. She died on her own. Another ameracauna had been exhibiting bad loss of life energy too, I felt I had to put her down and did. I attribute all this to the dog. Three birds. A fair bit of money value a bird, all adult hens, terrible. I told my Daughter about my suppositions and she was sick about it. She knows the value of and how I care and love my critters -- and she knows full well what damage a dog can do, and she is very annoyed at the people that they took so long to contain the dog. Blah. She totally will support it when company comes with a dog that she does not know. First time we have had losses of chickens here to dogs, in over 2 years. Most dogs are chicken friendly, sigh. There has been umpteen dozen people come with their dogs to visit, never has there been loss of life. There have been those that bring dogs and know full well their dogs would eat every bird up, and they are considerate, and leave dogs in the vehicle, or I contain the birds. I respect that dogs need room too, as do my chickens. We have 7 dogs here, and our dogs would not entertain thought of harm, well, should retract that statement, really. I guess that day could come, but doubt it, but I am aware of that too, that dogs can be dogs, especially if the pack instinct comes over. We are watchful of ours and aware. I am kind of annoyed too, but hey, lessons to learn and live by. Ya, so, my morning rant. Three hens, all gone, sadness in the flock too, as some gals miss their pals. But as said, these are things to learn and live by, these lessons from the school of hard knocks, might graduate one day, one fine day. Have an awesome day to us all, CynthiaM.

O CynthiaM, that IS a sad story. I think chickens can die of shock as well as injuries.

People are so thoughtless about their dogs. People say "Can I let my dog out of the car, he's a really good dog?" And I say "Doesn't matter HOW good he is, my Livestock Guardian dog will kill him if he even puts his head out the window". Not sure if it is true but it keeps the dog in the vehicle.

Even the tamest dog can be sent almost crazy by the sight of free range birds or sheep, especially if they've never seen them before. It is as if something primeaval takes over in their brain.

Hope that's it for bird fatalities.

Awful Just awful.

Earlier this year our pups were after the birds, it is frustrating!! We lost many of our full grown beautiful egg laying hens to them. VERY Frustrating!

Cynthia M,
Know what you are talking about. My daughter left her border/heeler cross loose one day and I lost 3 of my 4 guineas. Two of which I had just brought home from Manitoba. You never know about dogs. My flock also free ranges. Hopefully everything will get back on track now, and I am sorry for your lose.

so sorry to hear that Cynthia.
Make me even more resolved to tell people to keep their dogs in their vehicles when they visit or maybe leave them at home...

I have to say I have been more then disapointed with dog owners this past few months. I dont know if people just think they and their dogs are special and have super powers that the regular rules dont apply to them. We have had dog after dog die this summer do to heat exaustion and I can tell you the people are oblivious to it. There are warnings everywhere are bringing your dogs and not leaving them in the car, not exercising them in 35 degree heat etc etc. Nope still not getting it. It's heartbreaking to see the needless suffering these young dogs endure.

As a dog owner I would never think to bring my dog to a strange farm and let it loose. I know my dogs are fine a home but at a new and exciting place its a fun game!

I had a lady come pick up chicks earlier in the year who came with her small dog and got out of the car and promptly let it free. I have two small dogs and a lab and the little dogs do not take kindly to starngers. I immediatly told her to go put it in her car and she was all defensive telling me her dog is fine. So I told her well mine are not and I have many birds free ranging so please put her away. She finally got it and said oh I thought she would enjoy a run on a farm.

People please leave your dogs at home for several reasons!

I am sorry cynthia this has happened to you and your flock you have worked so hard with.

POLICY: keep your dogs off my land, they have no business here.

My neighbors have all been warned that their dogs lives are forfeit if I catch them bothering my livestock in any way. 2 weeks after we moved to this farm we had a garage sale and some strangers came with their jack russel terrier. I was confined to a wheel chair due to a nasty car accident so I had to watch and scream as this basterd little dog pulled my 4 year old daughter to the ground and seriously biting her face and other body parts. My brother came with a hammer to do the job and these prickss gathered their innocent little basterd and ran. They came back with expensive gifts and promises to put him down if he ever did it again. the gifts are in the landfill and I still want the owners relieved of their precious.
When it comes to these kinds of things I have no sympathy for laws regulations or peoples feelings.
Do what ever you must CynthiaM, there arent enough buckeye around to be losing them to irresponsible dog owners.

What a needless, senseless waste. I can sure sympathize with you, Cynthia. The same thing has happened here, more than once. I’ve lost far more chickens to dogs over the years than any natural predator!
The thing is, I can understand losing a chicken to a hawk or weasel or fox on occasion…it is disappointing and sad, but that is how nature works, and I have to be prepared for that. But dogs…that is another story. The last time this happened, our neighbours came to visit and brought their cute little white Westie terrier. I know that they also have chickens, so when they assured me that he would never chase or hurt one I trusted that they were speaking from experience. The next thing I see is their proud little pooch carrying one of my limp young pullets in its mouth! I was furious!
I do like dogs for the most part, and we don't want to completely ban them from our property. But now I insist that all dogs are to be kept in the vehicle or on a leash. No exceptions. I just hate thinking of the panic and fear of that poor little hen being chased and grabbed like that. Grrr...

Reneggaide, I can't begin to imagine the horror of seeing that happening to your child and being helpless to stop it. That dog needed to be put down, no second chance. I'm just relieved to hear your brother was there to stop it when he did.

heda gobbler wrote:O CynthiaM, that IS a sad story. I think chickens can die of shock as well as injuries.

People are so thoughtless about their dogs. People say "Can I let my dog out of the car, he's a really good dog?" And I say "Doesn't matter HOW good he is, my Livestock Guardian dog will kill him if he even puts his head out the window". Not sure if it is true but it keeps the dog in the vehicle.

I know that is true here. I've had my dogs go at a dog through the window of a vehicle. Luckily they stop when I say to, but I agree, don't bring your dogs to someone else's place!

.

Tara, you are not far off. I charged the idiots $60 for all 49 of my birds their two dogs came in and killed once. I had to go to court, but came out with a cheque for $3000

.

CynthiaM, I haven't posted before this as it was difficult to get my thoughts into words.

This type of thing drives me CRAZY! I won't say I am sorry that this happened cause you said you didn't want sympathy. How about I am p*ssed off that this happened? I imagine that is how you felt too.
Irresponsible dog ownership and management is a terrible thing and I think that is what this was. I won't go into my views on this sort of thing to much as my opinions will probably irritate people because I don't see our dogs as little people. I see dogs as dogs.

I don't mind if people bring dogs here if they ask first and we give them permission. Because we are on a ranch they figure they can bring their dogs here for a 'run'. When the house was being built up here the contractors would all bring their dogs out here and let them run all over the ranch. Drove us crazy. We have well behaved dogs, but they are working dogs. They are used to being in the working pack with us and have very good social skills, both dog and human. Very respectful of both and would never think of jumping up or forcing themselves on anyone. The dogs from town were terrible!! My goodness!!
One in particular would bowl our dogs and us over at great speed throwing himself at anything he pleased. The person would leave him unattended at the ranch while he sat in the office. Our dogs tried very hard to ignore this dog and would issue the odd growl to warn it off. The warnings were completely ignored of course.
I came down to the ranch one day, with all our dogs with me, and around the corner came this dog full speed straight at us. Well our guys fell onto this dog so quick. I would say they saw risk to me and acted. I stepped in very quickly and no harm was done, but I did have to get after our dogs as it should not have been their decision at that stage. Of course our dogs then were marked 'vicious' and 'dangerous' by this dogs owner. Sheesh.
I can tell you that all our dogs knew what vehicle contained that dog! Our place overlooks the road and when that truck would go by they would all go mad! They are smart and never forget.

So I understand the dog frustration and I think I may not have been as nice as you if someone brought a dog on our place and it chased and harmed my chickens. I have very low tolerance for that sort of thing. Givem an earful I say!!!!!

I will add to the sadness of an already sad thread.

Yesterday I came home to circling ravens. Never a good thing. I had visitors yesterday and in the chaos and since my routine had changed I forgot to lock up my main barn last night. The ravens took a couple birds. One was my gentle, favorite Houdan pullet who had not even laid yet and used to follow me around begging to be picked up. I generally dont make pets of my chickens, but this one was sweet and it really hurt. This was on top of the hellish day that had me in tears twice yesterday this was really the topper.

So, my own fault totally, and I hope I have learned something too, Cynthia. My bad day is slowly morphing into a horrible week at work with many unhappy events. I will do my best not to take it out on the rest of you!

People are idiots. Dogs are dogs. But for people, there is no excuse. I know enough to hope that my dog on my place might not kill MY chickens, but at your place, well YOUR chickens might be fair game. And if people do not know what a dog is capable of..they should not own dogs. Pretty basic.

Like Coopslave said, this doesn't make me sad, it makes me mad. This is not an accident of murder, this is an accident of people being stupid. Why not head the problem off at the pass and keep your dog on a leash or leave it at home? Agh...I know your disgust and dismay. Avoidable. Some dog owner really messed up.

There is a time and a place for dogs. I hate going to community events and everyone has brought their dogs who are fighting and running around and doing their business wherever they please. If your dog can't stay quietly in the back of the truck he or she should be left at home.

Well, I am surprised at how many have listened and replied to my thoughts here. Thank you, each one of you, for your stories of sadness and horror of things gone by. Didn't mean to make others go back and relive experiences, but oh, what a good thing eh? Those that have had losses, such as I, know full well, the sadness within -- and I know that others emphasize and can feel such too. It is a sadness, there is no doubt. But...I learn by hands on....and this was a hands on thing for surely .

If I actually saw this dog perform deeds that I KNOW caused harm to cause death, things would be different. This is a he said, she said thing. I do not know for sure that the death end result of these three hens was for surely this dog, I only assume. And I am a person that requires things that go by the saying "not a shadow of a doubt". There is doubt that something else may have happened to my hens to cause this bad thing. As you can hear -- I am not positive that it was this dog, who never knew what it was doing. Really. Inside my heart I know, but outside my heart, I don't know.

This has been a most positive experience for me, in that I have learned to never trust a dog that is not tried and true. And this also falls into the lap of my Daughter. She was very sad and emotionally challenged by this event. And I know for a fact, that she has enough of that thing called common sense, to warn their guests that their dogs are not welcome to come out of their vehicle. The dogs that she knows and trusts will be welcome, as every dog has always been to her farm. This is not my farm, we are only living on the farm until we move to our own place again, one day, one fine day...But, I know that my Daughter and hers have sense, good sense, and they will protect my birds with a warning to others that chose to bring a dog and let it loose, to not let loose, fancy free. They both have learned an extremely hard lesson too. Believe it or not, Daughter and Son-in-Law have great pride for my birds, I have seen that, and heard that, as they take their friends around and show off my flocks -- and that makes my heart sing with pride too. They will protect me and mine. And I thank my lucky stars that I am a blessed woman. Have a beautiful day, CynthiaM.

Schipperkesue wrote:I will add to the sadness of an already sad thread.

and I hope I have learned something too, Cynthia. My bad day is slowly morphing into a horrible week at work with many unhappy events. I will do my best not to take it out on the rest of you!

Sue, you are an intelligent woman. You know that it is good healing to vent and speak of things that cause us unhappiness, this is a good thing. Should you choose to let us in your life, tell us your stories that have made you have an awful week, it might make you feel better, I feel that you are very sad. Please, smiling that big smile -- take it out on us, you might be surprised how many love to listen, now girl, have a better day than you have been having, and go on to having an awesome day too, CynthiaM.

CynthiaM wrote:

Schipperkesue wrote:I will add to the sadness of an already sad thread.

and I hope I have learned something too, Cynthia. My bad day is slowly morphing into a horrible week at work with many unhappy events. I will do my best not to take it out on the rest of you!

Sue, you are an intelligent woman. You know that it is good healing to vent and speak of things that cause us unhappiness, this is a good thing. Should you choose to let us in your life, tell us your stories that have made you have an awful week, it might make you feel better, I feel that you are very sad. Please, smiling that big smile -- take it out on us, you might be surprised how many love to listen, now girl, have a better day than you have been having, and go on to having an awesome day too, CynthiaM.

Cynthia, you are sweet, but alas, my troubles are kid issues and they are confidential. This site is one of my places of relief though. I can come here to talk of happier things.

Oh Cynthia I feel so sad to read this . My daughter in law was just here with her 6 month old lab, no leash. She went a little nuts when she first saw the chickens but I managed to grab her before any damage was done and after about an hour she settled down and didn't bother them too much. It never occurred to me that a dog could do so much damage I am going to be more cautious with people and their dogs from now on. I can understand how you feel about your chickens. I think all my family and friends think I am nuts when it comes to the chickens but I love them and their chicken nature. I love that they let me be a part of their world. I am fascinated by them and I hate it when someone or something hurts them or upsets the peace in the flock. Maybe a sign on your driveway "free range chickens" please check with us before unleashing your dog." might help those who can't think for themselves.