Americana/Araucana

I have just been doing some researching and find interesting info.. It is probably general knowledge with many of you but...
I had previously read an article on how the americana were just a cross bred araucana. I dug more into that and found that, yes they came from adding other breeds to the araucana, but that they are now recognized as their own breed in 1984.. ( Not so long ago) Does that make them true heritage being as heritage is defined as a breed recognized in the 19th century? ( I read that somewhere too but don't remember where) I'm just throwing that question out there because I know someone should know... I'm not in the show world or anything. I just have my collection and want to stay true to the breeds.
Just wondering if someone could shed a little light on this for me.. Thanks!!

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That is a good article.

Wow that was a really clear article, that should be printed up and anyone selling these breeds should show it to people who ask questions about the differences!
I have an article explaining and portraying the diff between Barred Plymouth Rocks and Dominiques and everyone who I show it to goes "Ah, just what I always wanted to know!"

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So they aren't heritage then right?!

I don't think there is an official definintion of heritage breed, but I'm sure someone wil correct me if there is.

In any way that counts, IMO, Ameraucanas are a heritage breed. They breed true, are well adapted to a free-ranging life-style, and are attractive and thrifty. The only conceptual difference that I can see between them and other heritage breeds is that their "heritage" extends a shorter time into the past. When is long enough?

In many ways they are a superior heritage breed, as they haven't been overly selected for appearance traits to the detriment of production traits, and there appears to be sufficient genetic variation available to easily avoid the nasties associated with excesive inbreeding.

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Well, that list of characteristics of heritage breeds (with which I agree) is all good, but a list of characteristics is not, in any way, the same thing as a definition. In any case, who says the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy is the ultimate "official" arbitrator of definitions?

Tara, if I read closely, you are actually agreeing with me. why not do that up front? Be nice.

That link did say in the abbreviated part, that heritage breeds should have been established in the first half of the 20th century.. My question is how can something be "heritage" when new breeds have recently been developed? I like the Ameraucana and araucana chickens... But... How is it a "heritage breed" if it has only been developed 30 years ago? I know that the ancestors of these two breeds have been around for a very long time. But wouldn't that be a heritage and not the breed recently developed? Like I have said before, I am just getting into this world of heritage birds...I am confused on many things... How much of this is open to interpretation and how many of the standards are truly concrete? I'm very curious...Another thing that has been bothering me... If it is truly a self sustaining breed, wouldn't they set on their eggs as well? I can't see brooders being used 100 years ago. I have noticed that many of the "heritage breeds" do not hatch out their own young.. How would they survive? That seems an awful lot like the hybrids that I am trying to stay away from... Sorry for all the rambling...

I've had Ameraucanas go broody. Broodiness is controlled by genes, like many others, and can be selected for or against, so increased or decreased in a population over time.

Despite what Tara says, I don't think you'd get unanimity on a definition of heritage. I also don't think it matters much. What does matter is that they breed true, and be hardy, well-adapted, and productive.

And with respect to incubators (brooders) being around 100 years ago, they've been around way longer than that!

From [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The ancient Egyptians and Chinese both devised incubators to hatch chicks from eggs without the mother hen sitting on the eggs. This enabled hens to continue laying eggs. The Egyptian incubators were large rooms heated by fires; attendants turned the eggs at regular intervals so they would warm evenly. Some Chinese incubators were warmed by fire, others by rotting manure. The Italian inventor Jean Baptiste Porta drew on the ancient Egyptian designs to build his 1588 egg incubator, but was forced to abandon his work by the Inquisition. Dutch inventor Cornelius Drebbel also invented an incubator to hatch eggs.

Knowledge about egg incubation was revived and introduced throughout Europe by the inventive Frenchman René-Antoine Ferchault de Réaumur (1683-1757) around 1750. Réaumur's device was warmed by a wood stove; temperature was controlled by a thermometer, also invented by Réaumur, which gave rise to the temperature scale named after the inventor. The success of Réaumur's incubator--Louis XV (1710-1774) enjoyed helping the chicks hatch--helped boost commercial production of foodstuffs at the beginning of the industrial era.

After Réaumur's death, the incubator was further developed by Abbé Jean-Antoine Nollet (1700-1770) and later by Abbé Copineau, who used alcohol lamps as a source of heat.

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We need to remember that hens that are not setty are still laying eggs in the nests of hens that are.
There are even birds in nature that lay their eggs in other birds nests and never raise their own young.

coopslave wrote:We need to remember that hens that are not setty are still laying eggs in the nests of hens that are.
There are even birds in nature that lay their eggs in other birds nests and never raise their own young.

Ya, that brown-headed cowbird is a bad girl!! She always lets others raise her young . Go figure that one eh?

I always make a big mark on eggs on my broody hens' eggs they are sitting on. Like a big mark. Those eggs look like Easter eggs cause of the crooked blue lines all across the fat end of the egg . No mistaking them. Why on earth do the hens always want to squeeze in with the broodies and make eggs, go figure that one too!! And why would the broodies even allow another gal to plop her big fat butt in her nest of potential babies, go figure that one. A whole of of go-figurin' on goin' on this mornin'. Anyways, my line of buff orpingtons, all three hens have gone broody, one did not. She looks like she is broody all the time, fluffing out and such, but she is not sitting. I think she is just fooling the rooster so he leaves her alone -- she is one smart gal. I have had a whack of hatchery buff orpingtons and only once did I have a hen of that breeding go broody. Yep, think the broodiness was bred out of the line. Good topic by the way, have a most beautiful day, on this hideously rainy morning, CynthiaM.

WoW! Interesting about the ancient incubators! I'm going to be digging into that for our social studies ( I home school my kids). I was just meaning the general public who had farms.. Way back when every farm kept chickens. I'm pretty sure incubating wasn't commonly used like it is today.. Sorry for my poor explaining. I do know that a broody hen will set on any egg too. Which does solve the problem of non setting breeds. I guess most people had mixed flocks that just kept crossing and making chickies. There probably weren't many people that tried to keep a breeds pure. I guess that has been the picture I have had in my head when I think heritage. Now I am realizing that I heritage is much more than just the way my great great grandpa would have done things.. ( It's kind of funny how you can get a pic in your head of how something is and be way off) Thanks everyone for all the input.

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These old incubators are great. I have a Jamesway "baby grand" and a Jamesway "gooser", both great machines. They use less water than a modern machine, and when the power goes off, they have so much thermal mass that they only go down 1/4 degree F in 3 days. One of them still has the original papers on how to set it up and use it. There is real good craftsmanship in them too, all corners brass capped, brass hinges for the doors, that sort of thing. I really like mine, grin.

Jocelyn

So how do you think you make broodies?
I read that it can only be passed by the rooster so you have to get a rooster chick out of a broody hen(gotta save her eggs before she goes broody!) and then his pullet babies may get the trait for broodiness...

No, that's not true. Broodiness is a quantitative trait (controlled by many different genes, on several/many chromosomes, not just the sex ones), and is NOT passed on just by roos.
If you want to get broody hens, select for broodiness, hatch eggs from hens that go broody. It's as simple as that. (If you also have a chance to select roos rom broody strains, that's good too.)

HigginsRAT wrote:Heck even SEARS (& Roebuck) sold them...LOL You know the company that provided the catalogues to use in the outhouses? How OLD are you before I date myself to the age of Dino-turkeys! LOL The Christmas Wishbook sucked, paper was too shiny! Oh wherever am I going with this now...LMBO Evil or Very Mad

Ah, don't ever worry about that, dating oneself is a wonderful thing, we lived through the best of the best . I am 60 in October, and don't give a hoot about dating myself -- I toot it to the world -- and I full well remember the outhouse at my Grandma's and the pee pails inside the house to take to the outhouse . Oops, ramblin' off the topic.

Broodiness, I got too much of it going on. All my buff orpingtons are brooding. The fourth gal decided she was broody for like a month, never once sat on an egg, but pretended she was I think. I think that was to keep the rooster uninterested, but really, it didn't work. She is now back laying eggs (she had stopped laying for a couple of weeks). Want some buff orpington eggs that guaranteed will go broody as hens, smiling that big smile. How about cochins, got two now, and I am sure there will be like 7 more that are doin' that thing. Want some cochin eggs from gals that just want to be mammas and that's all they want to do, smiling that big smile. Just kidding. But ya, think that there is a whole lotta broody hen genes goin' on here, could be good, could be bad, depends on how you look at it. Babies comin' out my ears here, all over the place, gotta get those pics into my thread on the broodies, smiling. Beautiful topic that has meandered all over the map. Have beautiful days, CynthiaM.

ipf wrote:No, that's not true. Broodiness is a quantitative trait (controlled by many different genes, on several/many chromosomes, not just the sex ones), and is NOT passed on just by roos.
If you want to get broody hens, select for broodiness, hatch eggs from hens that go broody. It's as simple as that. (If you also have a chance to select roos rom broody strains, that's good too.)

Thanks I wanted to know that IPF!
Tough thing is though by the time you notice a hen is seriously broody usually she is done laying and just wants to sit so then hard to get her eggs in the mix!!
Of course if you have the kind that just wander off, make a nest and reappear then you are blessed!
(I don't tend to let anyone stay out past their bedtime!)
And cynthiam that is true, sometimes all you want is one or two girls to do the deed and the rest to keep on keeping on!
So maybe I just want "slight broodiness"!
What I want as well is not just sitters but ones that will be great protective mothers too and not just for a few weeks but for the whole 9 yards...which is probably another trait on its own!

Bloody broodies!!! Everyone seems to like them but all, yes ALL my PChantecler hens are broody at the moment! They are very picky too, when I move them to their own digs they complain and whinge and say they are not going to sit. I move them back to general population and sit they do.....sooooo frustrating!

I really wanted to do a hatch with this second rooster, but they just will not cooperate. The least they could do is sit so I can put some of the eggs in the bator under them. Silly girls.