Maintaining Healthy Genetics in a Closed Flock

This topic came up recently in another forum, and I thought it would be great to open up the discussion here, too. There are some good reasons to move towards a closed flock - biosecurity, the unknown genetic traits you don't want to introduce into your breeding program, and maybe a shortage of good stock in your area to draw from.

I've been reading about the Family Mating system, and am thinking of incorporating it. It means you have to be dedicated to keeping 2 separate families of your breed.
It is described in detail in the April/May 2011 issue of Backyard Poultry.

Basically you keep 2 breeding groups based on phenotype. So you divide your existing hens into 2 groups, with each group having the most similar characteristics in appearance to each other. All the hens in one family are leg banded with one color, say red, while the other family wears blue. You begin this system with a completely unrelated rooster. Each year you breed only one group of hens. So lets say you start with the red girls, then all the chicks you hatch will be marked with red bands.
The following year you breed only the blue girls, and it is suggested you can use the same cock if he has produced good offspring. Remember he is not related to any of your hens.
It is stressed that you need to cull hard, and keep only those few best hens and roosters for breeding each year.
You can begin to use your own cocks for breeding after the first year, but it will always be red cock to blue hen or vice versa.

This is a very basic overview - it is a full 3 pages in the magazine. But what I like best is that it doesnt require a lot of record keeping or a complicated system of trapping hens so you know who laid what egg like I've read in some other articles.

I think it is great to think of ways to keep your flock genetically healthy without completely outcrossing every few years. this is a way to use inbreeding in a controlled environment. The author of the article also advises that more chicks are better...hatch as many as you can adequatly feed and house, and cull "severely hard". He recommends numbers of around 6 - 10 hens and 3 roos within each family in order to be able to hatch a good amount of chicks each year and have lots to choose from.

I am interested in anyone's feedback or opinions!

Interesting post KathyS! I look forward to the responses.

It does sound simple. Personally I'm an idealist and hope to single mate, rotating roosters so the birds in a mating are only distantly related.

I like the idea of not having to trap nest, but I want to select for laying ability so I pretty much have to. Or do I? I've read about body type effecting laying (well developed abdomen). Is it enough to select based on this alone?

I also hope to keep detailed records, but who knows if that'll happen. The simplicity part of the family system definately sounds appealing.

On a side note Kathy, I have a young trio of your white chanteclers through Chantecler_eh?. I'm still amazed at the difference between the whites and partridge. The whites are longer in the limb and their tighter feathering makes them look even more so, but they're heavy birds.

I am concerned about extreme focus on biosecurity. On one hand, it makes sense not to bring disease into your flock, obviously. On the other hand, treating your birds like fine china and never allowing them to be exposed to anything that challenges their systems is cultivating a bunch of wimpy chickens, from a health perspective. It is possible to breed for feathering and body type and other desired traits, but they drop dead the second a germ looks at them sideways.

Back during the avian influenza catastrophe and the mass murder of millions of birds, I was sickened by the short sightedness of this overkill reaction. I think we needed some birds to survive that illness. We needed to find out what stock is immune and healthy enough to prevail. THe mass killing (as I understand it)was done in the interest of preserving the large, mass farmed poultry establishments from further infection and financial ruin. If ever there was a reason to NOT pursue bio-securty, it is those barns crammed full of pathetic, health compromised birds that we keep by the millions in this country! So delicate and weak that millions of other birds died to preserve their feeble existence. It is possible to breed pretty birds that have to live in a plastic bubble, should bio-security be pursued with unbridled paranoia. Where do you draw the line? It's hard to know.

I am leaning towards closed flocks, too. Not only for biosecure reasons, but because I think I have a broad enough base for most of my breeds (except wheaten ameraucana's) that I'd like to see what I can do within those lines before I feel the need to bring in more.

This year was a big year for us and we purchased many birds. I have also had more losses this year then before, I think marek's was high amongst wild birds as we had a few wild bird bodies found, and a few birds lost to marek's disease. Interestingly enough, every bird lost so far had been previously vaccinated against Marek's, while my unvaccinated birds haven't been affected, leaving me wondering what the heck to do in spring 2012.

Now, most of the birds I have brought in have been very healthy, but there were a couple that we got that were sick, despite appearing healthy when we picked them up, which is a real pain in the butt!

So, while I realize that some folks think they will be much more biosecure if they keep a closed flock, it's only a small part of the reason I'd like to try. Mainly, I want to see what I have in the birds I have already sourced out. And, that's not to say I won't be bringing home birds to add to the laying flock!!!

Just my two cents

Briarwood, you said you found some dead wild birds near your place. Has West Nile made it to your area yet? I'm trying to remember if all birds are suseptible to it or just crows? But that was a thought that crossed my mind, advancing West Nile.

No West Nile Virus here yet, I think it can affect all birds? I don't remember. I know it affects horses, too.

All my marek's losses were identical to one another, very classic marek's symptoms. I lost 4 birds from marek's from March 2011-Oct 2011, so it wasn't an "epidemic", but was limited to vaccinated birds.

My reason for a closed flock, and actually I don't think of what I do as a closed flock, but developing my own line, is not for biosecurity at all. I want my flock to be exposed to stuff and only breed the ones that prevail! When I bring new stuff in I am very sure to have good quarantine facilities and I use them. It is as much for the new birds as it is for my own flock.

I like my flock to be 'closed' so I can start to see what I am managing as far as genetics goes. When I start I get as many different birds and lines as I can and then I start from there. I make it a practise to not only breed 'perfect' birds together, but to add the odd non perfect bird that has some things about it I want in my line. I have a couple of Partridge Chanteclers right now that do not have the pencilling that many of my pullets have, but they are very LARGE and they will stay for a year or two in the breeding program. They will wreak havoc on my pencilling, but I hope they will add the size that some of my lovelies are lacking. Same with the funky combed rooster I have right now. I like much about him so I will use him for a couple of breedings in the spring and then get rid of him. If the offspring have some of the stuff I want they will stay, if not they will make nice layers for someone.

You can bet if you are always picking 'peas in a pod', unless you are single mating as some breeders do, that you are picking full siblings. I know Heather has stabilised her line so she is getting birds that all look very close to each other, but starting out with a new line will take many years to get to that stage.

Sometimes I keep a hen in the 'layer pen' and only use her for one setting. This to me can add something that you never knew you had in your gene pool, be it good or bad! I always have keepers tucked away that I don't use for the whole season. I think this can help keep diversity in the flock.

I am not opposed to out crossing, and have done it a few times after I have established a line, but it usually gives me tons of grief. I don't always use an outcross as carefully as I should. I usually jump in with both feet and then clean up the mess for the next few years.

I am enjoying hearing what others are doing and what is working, or maybe not working for them.

samwise wrote:
On a side note Kathy, I have a young trio of your white chanteclers through Chantecler_eh?. I'm still amazed at the difference between the whites and partridge. The whites are longer in the limb and their tighter feathering makes them look even more so, but they're heavy birds.

Oh Ok. Those must have come from some of my eggs that ended up being hatched by Hidden River. Its funny how things work out! Glad to hear they are doing well for you and its interesting to hear your thoughts on their feathers. That is one thing I've really noticed too is they have great quality feathers compared to some of the other breeds I have. Really tight and firm web right to the tips.

Thanks for the great responses everyone. It's good to hear different opinions on this topic, and individual reasons for using the birds you already have as opposed to bringing in completely new, unrelated ones every few years.