I seeking some advice about linebreeding, outcrossing, and when and if outcrossing is necessary. I had no choice but to start with an outcross as my starting point for my Barnevelders, as I only ended up with males from one line and females from another. I started with what I could get. I am planning my breeding pens for next year so deciding on what to keep and what to let go as my space is limited - my babies are 5 weeks old (lol) and trying to figure out what is best. I was able to obtain some chicks this year also from the father line and am excited to see how they turn out.
So far the outcross chicks look to be pretty good. I think I can safely say there are chicks in the brooder that based on what I see so far are better than the parents. The boys look like the combs already will be better than dads and they are big and masculine. The feathers on the pullets are coming in already nicely laced and nicer than I recall the chicks from last year. All the chicks are big,chunky and robust. The boys look like boys, the girls look like girls or at least I think - I tagged them all based on the white chest theory, so far it looks like mine are autosexing but I'll find out for sure when the crowing starts. I do have one that has a half white chest, and a half cream chest - don't know what that means!
The father line is more utility and that line lays a nice dark egg, the father would have been from a dark egg however there is some pretty spectacular laced birds from this line also so not entirely utility but I will call it utility as they have not been shown and were not bred for showing. He had very nice lacing as a youngster, he is quite dark now. His biggest assets are his size, awesome yellow legs, his bone and breadth, structure is good, his attitude and instinct and his utility aspects are awesome as he would have been delicious and was very meaty as a youngster. Of the four breeds I raised last year, he was the only one that I would have considered eating at 4 months as he was heavy and felt very meaty. He almost went to the stew pot when my neighbors started complaining about roosters...I just keep them in a bit longer now in the mornings seems to have appeased the masses. I chose him over another smaller male that had a better comb, smaller bone structure, and better tailset, and wasn't as dark but I didn't want small pretty birds that can't be eaten. The biggest faults on this guy is his comb is less than ideal and his tail is only slightly high when comparing him to other barnies but his outline still appears all barnevelder.
The females are from a show line and line those birds do very well in shows. The females are very correct in profile, have decent bone and were the thriftiest of chicks from that hatched, actually they were all massive mooses as chicks and I thought they were all boys, they had huge yellow legs as chicks. And they did not get cocci at all unlike some of the other breeds I had at that time. They have good attitudes, not 'featherbrained', and are easy keepers, they are slightly on the small side and need work on feathering but do have decent doublelaced feathers throughout. The hens I have so far fit the bill for dual purpose and I have not had any health problems with these barnevelders, and while these hens were the last to start laying of the 4 breeds last fall, they have layed consistently 6-7 small-medium sized light coloured eggs a week per hen since they started laying, including through the winter without lights and are still laying in the heat, the eggs are not large but have good shells and good shape, great fertility and hatchability up around 95% for both. I have sent messages to the breeders asking for more specifics on the lines so I know what I am working with, and this time will write it down as I keep getting it confused with some of the Welsummer info.
I was thinking of keeping three breeding pens. Keep the male line, as I do have some female chicks this year from the male line I was able to acquire, and breed them to the boy I already have. And maybe keep a cockeral from that line too? And call that 'line one'. Breed the dad to the daughters, call that line 2. This line would combine some of the show traits with the utility aspects and this should have some darker egg layers produced. Breed a son (already have one that stands out) to the mothers and call that line three. This should produce birds with utility traits but that could be considered for show. Does that make sense? Is there a better way to do it? How long would I keep a 'line' breeding sons/mothers and daughters/dads before switching it up? Should I rotate roosters from different pens every year? How many breeding pens would be ideal for this scenario? Or is it just best to jumble it all up and keep the best and go from there keeping only one or two really good roosters and only the best of hens regardless of the lines as they are not distinct?
My goal is really decent looking birds with really good utility aspects, so good weights, good laying and good keepers. But if I was to have to make a choice of utility vs pretty in any one bird, I will choose utility. And I would love both. I would like to be able to take them to shows and do well, not getting laughed out of the building but I don't want to compromise any utility features for show features so won't need to leave the building with the top placings to be happy, it would be fun to get out and go to shows. (I'm still crazy nervous about showing and disease, so still have not decided if I will show - or if I do will only show birds I will sell at the show so they don't come home - I'll cross that bridge later).
hen lacing [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
this year baby boy barnie [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
another baby barnie
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
and another
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Thanks in advance for providing your input. Cheers!
So far the outcross chicks look to be pretty good. I think I can safely say there are chicks in the brooder that based on what I see so far are better than the parents. The boys look like the combs already will be better than dads and they are big and masculine. The feathers on the pullets are coming in already nicely laced and nicer than I recall the chicks from last year. All the chicks are big,chunky and robust. The boys look like boys, the girls look like girls or at least I think - I tagged them all based on the white chest theory, so far it looks like mine are autosexing but I'll find out for sure when the crowing starts. I do have one that has a half white chest, and a half cream chest - don't know what that means!
The father line is more utility and that line lays a nice dark egg, the father would have been from a dark egg however there is some pretty spectacular laced birds from this line also so not entirely utility but I will call it utility as they have not been shown and were not bred for showing. He had very nice lacing as a youngster, he is quite dark now. His biggest assets are his size, awesome yellow legs, his bone and breadth, structure is good, his attitude and instinct and his utility aspects are awesome as he would have been delicious and was very meaty as a youngster. Of the four breeds I raised last year, he was the only one that I would have considered eating at 4 months as he was heavy and felt very meaty. He almost went to the stew pot when my neighbors started complaining about roosters...I just keep them in a bit longer now in the mornings seems to have appeased the masses. I chose him over another smaller male that had a better comb, smaller bone structure, and better tailset, and wasn't as dark but I didn't want small pretty birds that can't be eaten. The biggest faults on this guy is his comb is less than ideal and his tail is only slightly high when comparing him to other barnies but his outline still appears all barnevelder.
The females are from a show line and line those birds do very well in shows. The females are very correct in profile, have decent bone and were the thriftiest of chicks from that hatched, actually they were all massive mooses as chicks and I thought they were all boys, they had huge yellow legs as chicks. And they did not get cocci at all unlike some of the other breeds I had at that time. They have good attitudes, not 'featherbrained', and are easy keepers, they are slightly on the small side and need work on feathering but do have decent doublelaced feathers throughout. The hens I have so far fit the bill for dual purpose and I have not had any health problems with these barnevelders, and while these hens were the last to start laying of the 4 breeds last fall, they have layed consistently 6-7 small-medium sized light coloured eggs a week per hen since they started laying, including through the winter without lights and are still laying in the heat, the eggs are not large but have good shells and good shape, great fertility and hatchability up around 95% for both. I have sent messages to the breeders asking for more specifics on the lines so I know what I am working with, and this time will write it down as I keep getting it confused with some of the Welsummer info.
I was thinking of keeping three breeding pens. Keep the male line, as I do have some female chicks this year from the male line I was able to acquire, and breed them to the boy I already have. And maybe keep a cockeral from that line too? And call that 'line one'. Breed the dad to the daughters, call that line 2. This line would combine some of the show traits with the utility aspects and this should have some darker egg layers produced. Breed a son (already have one that stands out) to the mothers and call that line three. This should produce birds with utility traits but that could be considered for show. Does that make sense? Is there a better way to do it? How long would I keep a 'line' breeding sons/mothers and daughters/dads before switching it up? Should I rotate roosters from different pens every year? How many breeding pens would be ideal for this scenario? Or is it just best to jumble it all up and keep the best and go from there keeping only one or two really good roosters and only the best of hens regardless of the lines as they are not distinct?
My goal is really decent looking birds with really good utility aspects, so good weights, good laying and good keepers. But if I was to have to make a choice of utility vs pretty in any one bird, I will choose utility. And I would love both. I would like to be able to take them to shows and do well, not getting laughed out of the building but I don't want to compromise any utility features for show features so won't need to leave the building with the top placings to be happy, it would be fun to get out and go to shows. (I'm still crazy nervous about showing and disease, so still have not decided if I will show - or if I do will only show birds I will sell at the show so they don't come home - I'll cross that bridge later).
hen lacing [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
this year baby boy barnie [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
another baby barnie
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
and another
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Thanks in advance for providing your input. Cheers!
Last edited by islandgal99 on Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adding photos)
(Which sounds like you have done.) 
I think Piet is raising them here so hopefully he chimes in. They are not an easy breed to get right, but very rewarding when you start to get close. Exciting watching them feather out each year!