The mystery deaths

There you go, put straw in the bottom and cardboard on the top and throw the chickies in one of those. At least temporarily. They may stop dying...

I'm going to bring them in the house tonight. Our rabbit cages are full -- we have more on order, but they haven't arrived yet. The rabbits fight when paired, so we don't keep them together.

So sorry you are having troubles with chicks this year, it is very disheartening for sure!

I agree that treating with Amprol couldn't hurt as cocci is a killer even if you don't see the blood.
Another idea, which could also be transported by mice, is mites, I know last year a broody hen lost 3 of her chicks even when they were older, first time ive ever had a broody lose any and when I checked them they were plagued by mites.

I thought that because they were on their own they wouldn't be as likely to have them but now I am careful to treat the hen as she begins to sit and then after they have hatched out (I put Frontline on hen and then dusted her and the chicks with the Carbaryl powder from Dominion labs when they were older)

Hope things look up for you soon.

What kind of rabbits do you raise?  I have a trio of NZ white that I got to feed the dogs, but hubby says they are too valuable to feed to the dogs.  Says 'they are the most profitable operation here!' and he brings them fresh greens he picks up at the organic market. I keep saying I'm going to get rid of them cuz I'm not happy about not being able to do what I want with my rabbits.  He says I can sell the babies and buy all the dog food I want. grumble, grumble under my breath...

SucellusFarms wrote:What kind of rabbits do you raise?  I have a trio of NZ white that I got to feed the dogs, but hubby says they are too valuable to feed to the dogs.  Says 'they are the most profitable operation here!' and he brings them fresh greens he picks up at the organic market. I keep saying I'm going to get rid of them cuz I'm not happy about not being able to do what I want with my rabbits.  He says I can sell the babies and buy all the dog food I want. grumble, grumble under my breath...

We have pure NZ's, pure Californians and then crosses of those. We're raising them for meat purposes and I'm keeping the furs with hopes of making hand warmers for the winter. I think we would feed them to the dogs, but something to be careful of, I would think, is to not make them the totality of the diet. They are so lean they can cause 'Rabbit starvation'.

They can be HUGE money makers, we just haven't gotten to that setup point yet. The butcher shop down the road sells their carcases for $24. A local restaurant here told me if I could get them certified, I'd get $14 PER LB selling them to restaurants. -wut-.

They also fetch anywhere from $20-$80 a piece at auction. Not sure about sales.

Another caution with using poison: if your chickens, cats, dogs, etc. eat a mouse that has just ingested the poison or that has died from poisoning, your pet can be poisoned as well. It doesn't take much to be fatal.  

Now I have heard that isn't true, but I suppose that depends on what the poison is.

It IS true.
It depends on dosage, and the poison, of course; some poisons are specific to certain animals. However there is no doubt that animals have died from "secondary" poisoning.

\"Sweetened wrote:

We have pure NZ's, pure Californians and then crosses of those.  We're raising them for meat purposes and I'm keeping the furs with hopes of making hand warmers for the winter.  I think we would feed them to the dogs, but something to be careful of, I would think, is to not make them the totality of the diet.  They are so lean they can cause 'Rabbit starvation'.

They can be HUGE money makers, we just haven't gotten to that setup point yet.  The butcher shop down the road sells their carcases for $24.  A local restaurant here told me if I could get them certified, I'd get $14 PER LB selling them to restaurants.  -wut-.

They also fetch anywhere from $20-$80 a piece at auction.  Not sure about sales.

As always, the big problem is being able to get them professionally butchered, and then not being allowed to sell butchered carcasses.  The gov't certainly does make it almost impossible to make a living as a farmer. Too many road blocks. We don't have anyone near us who butchers rabbits, and most customers do not want to do it themselves and I am not allowed to do it for them. Do you sell live rabbits to the butcher shop?

Ok, here is a discussion on 'rabbit starvation'. http://www.threelittleladiesrabbitry.com/blog2/2011/01/20/nutritional-value-of-rabbit-meat/

I've never heard of rabbit starvation. I've only heard that whole rabbits are ideal for dogs. After all, they are what coyotes and wolves eat a lot of.

I find for the most part my animals leave the dead mice alone. My dogs font even eat the live ones they catch. I am also careful to place the poison either where I know no animal has access too or if its in special traps I monitor them very carefully so I know if a dog gets in it.

The last vet conference I went to I went to a talk on poison emergencies and they said the likely hood of a dog needing treatment for ingesting a poisoned mouse was very low as the mice only inject a very small amount and by the time they are dead they have metabolized the active ingredients. Cats are also less sensitive. The treatment is not really a big deal if the do get some ( except one kind I cant remember its nasty and they die no matter what).

I buy rattak pellets in pouches. It apparently has the highest food grade attractants in it. I once put a pack in a trap with the blue blocks and they ate the pellets. I have had them eat through the box to get to it! The key is regular use to keep numbers low.

lanaire-ranching wrote:

Flicker Chick wrote:And you need to get serious with those mice. You need one of these.
http://www.amazon.com/Victor-M2524-Electronic-Mouse-Trap/dp/B000E1RIUU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372429733&sr=8-1&keywords=electric+mouse+trap

I happen to have a spare I bought when they were on sale. $15 all in and it's yours.

   wow.  I need a couple of those!!  I'll have to watch for sales!  would be a LOT cheaper than the bait I went through

They really do work! I've only had a mouse get away without riding the lightening once and it was because the metal plate inside had a fleck of crud on it. Now I make sure to wipe the plate off with a Q-tip in between kills and no problems. Easy peasy.

Sorry about your losses. I lost chicks last year because of vitamin deficiency. We don't have selenium in our water or soil, selenium is not in the food nor polvite. And lack of selenium leads to vitamin e deficiency and b vitamin problems as selenium is required for the uptake of especially vitamin e. And the food I was feeding was to old, even though I was buying it fresh, due to the long distribution chain so the b and e vitamines were degraded.  Double whammy. The chicks I bought elsewhere fared better here as they had a more vitamin enriched start, but my own hatches were disasterous and my chicks were not thrifty and would just die. I did send them away to be tested which helped me rule out all the big bad diseases. I did have some with cocci, and increased populations of bacteria, but no other diseases. I didn't figure out the vitamin problem until talking to a pig farmer here who said everyone here has to supplement selenium. Researched it, added a cocktail of selenium, vitamines e and b complex to the diet, and changed the food to a local company and wiin weeks my birds were totally different ad thriving. I still have a few though who would have been affected the longest who are a bit slower and the growth was stunted.

The only way I could have figured out the vitamines was ruling out disease by sending the birds to the lab. It was cheap and one one submission fee could include multiple birds. You can freeze the birds until you can get them to the lab. Worth every penny. And even if you are getting some Wierd disease or bacteria from mice they will be able to find it and tell you what it is.  I found our lab vets to be a good source of information.

SucellusFarms wrote:As always, the big problem is being able to get them professionally butchered, and then not being allowed to sell butchered carcasses.  The gov't certainly does make it almost impossible to make a living as a farmer. Too many road blocks. We don't have anyone near us who butchers rabbits, and most customers do not want to do it themselves and I am not allowed to do it for them. Do you sell live rabbits to the butcher shop?

Ok, here is a discussion on 'rabbit starvation'. http://www.threelittleladiesrabbitry.com/blog2/2011/01/20/nutritional-value-of-rabbit-meat/

I've never heard of rabbit starvation. I've only heard that whole rabbits are ideal for dogs. After all, they are what coyotes and wolves eat a lot of.

The rules governing meat, at least here, are farmgate for private sale and inspected for commercial. I have a couple people interested in some roos this year when I butcher them, and they are aware it's an hour drive out from the city to come get them, as I CANNOT transport them, legally, for the purpose of sale unless it has been done at an inspected facility. There's a wild game butcher a couple hours from us who will do ducks and other waterfowl as well as rabbits, at least, that's my understanding. He will NOT do chickens, and I've called almost all the hudderite colony's and none are interested in doing them for me.


I'm not sure who to get ahold of for testing purposes, though it has crossed my mind. I've been told Selenium is NOT a problem out here and many cattle farmers don't inject for it either in this area.

Michelle S wrote:Another caution with using poison: if your chickens, cats, dogs, etc. eat a mouse that has just ingested the poison or that has died from poisoning, your pet can be poisoned as well. It doesn't take much to be fatal.  

I asked specifically about this one, and since "most" of the bait (and I will only say most, because not all are like this) but they are designed to dry the mouse out on the inside.... so its not harmful or fatal to either the chickens or the cats.

but that was especially for the one that I had bought. there ARE others that can be harmful but if you are just careful to ask before purchasing I am sure you will be fine. I think that once upon a day the poisons werent as refined as they are now, so maybe had more problems???



although, sweetened.... the skunks would be cheaper-- and I would be SO HAPPY HAPPY to send them to you!!!!  

lanaire-ranching wrote:although, sweetened.... the skunks would be cheaper-- and I would be SO HAPPY HAPPY to send them to you!!!!   

*Pout* Moose said no.

I wanted to touch on this again.

That bird I found with symptoms is still alive and... well?

She's paired up with another bird from her hatch and they don't leave eachothers side.  Her eyes open sometimes, but they don't open all the way so she always looks tired.  She will walk around with her eyes SHUT as though she doesn't need them to see at all.  She eats and drinks on her own, eyes closed, whether or not that other bird is right at her side.  She is also adept at climbing into the duck pen (Scaling 5.5ft of wire with wings-a-flapping), and the drake is fine with them in there now, I've caught him milling around in the litter with them.

She's not snotty, breathes well now, like I said eats and drinks and has good weight.  She's a pretty little thing, but it's like she rarely opens her eyes.  I don't think her quality of life is deminished at all, as she's fully functional.  I have also found that I can open her eyes easily.  Her EYES themselves are bright and well coloured, not marek's looking at all, but who knows.  When you open her eyelids, there's still that cloudy water.  Now, don't mistake this for pussy, it's just like... if you finish drinking a glass of milk and then dump water in it to rinse it, that's what the fluid looks like.  Her eyes don't run and they aren't gooped shut.  It's like she's opting not to look at the world.

Strange...she definitely sounds not quite right. Could she possibly have had something in her eye that may have scratched the lens? But both eyes seems pretty fluky. I dunno. Maybe try and flush her eyes with cool, clean water, then try saline eye drops? Hopefully someone else with more experience on eye issues will chime in.  

Just was reading through my chicken disease folder and found this.

Infectious Bronchitis
Synonyms: IB, bronchitis, cold
Species affected: Infectious bronchitis is a disease of chickens only. A similar disease occurs in bobwhite quail (quail bronchitis), but it is caused by a different virus.

Clinical signs: The severity of infectious bronchitis infection is influenced by the age and immune status of the flock, by environmental conditions, and by the presence of other diseases. Feed and water consumption declines. Affected chickens will be chirping, with a watery discharge from the eyes and nostrils, and labored breathing with some gasping in young chickens. Breathing noises are more noticeable at night while the birds rest. Egg production drops dramatically. Production will recover in 5 or 6 weeks, but at a lower rate. The infectious bronchitis virus infects many tissues of the body, including the reproductive tract (see Table 1 ). Eggshells become rough and the egg white becomes watery. (See publication PS-24, Egg Quality, for other causes of poor egg quality.)

Transmission: Infectious bronchitis is a very contagious poultry disease. It is spread by air, feed bags, infected dead birds, infected houses, and rodents. The virus can be egg-transmitted, however, affected embryos usually will not hatch.

Treatment: There is no specific treatment for infectious bronchitis. Antibiotics for 3-5 days may aid in combating secondary bacterial infections. Raise the room temperature 5°F for brooding-age chickens until symptoms subside. Baby chicks can be encouraged to eat by using a warm, moist mash.

Prevention: Establish and enforce a biosecurity program. Vaccinations are available.

Basically a nasty chicken cold.  The younger birds would be affected the most. You've had no more losses though?

That 'sleepy' look, the closed eyes mean pain.

A bird that is hunched, ruffled, not moving, away from the flock, with closed eyes, is telling you its in pain.

You will notice there are sick looking birds whose eyes are open even though they are 'off'. Then there are the eyes closed birds and the difference is the pain level.

BUT...if this bird is active and eating and running around and being part of the flock instead of separating itself, then in that case I would think the eye issue is likely something else. Glad he pulled through. Maybe this eye thing will resolve. Hope so.

Hmm, I could try and flush them, I didn't think of that.

No, she doesn't sound quite right at all, but as long as she's trying and able to feed and water herself, I'll give her the chance.  That's the general rule for me on judging quality of life.

I do think this is a result of whatever killed off all those chicks.  The deaths have stopped *knock knock knock*, but She's still in recovery.

If she's in pain, this is a whole other issue... I'd much prefer not to allow her to stay in pain if she is not going to recover... Hmm, now I have to decide a length of time to allow this before it becomes or surpasses cruel if it hasn't already. What a dilemma..

Sweetened, have you ever tried apple cider vinegar and peroxide in the water? I got the recipe from an Alberta cattle farmer. He uses it for all his stock, all the time. To 1 gal. of water I add 1 1/4 oz apple cider vinegar and 1 1/4 oz of 3% food-grade hydrogen peroxide. I give it to my birds whenever something is up, health-wise. My FGHP is 29%. I dilute it to 3% by adding 1 C. peroxide to 9 1/3 C. water. Its worth a try.

ACV is something I often use, but peroxide is not. I will look into this.

I am worried about the pain thing... I need to pick up more oregano oil, as it IS a pain killer

The super oxygenation of the peroxide kills anaerobic bacteria, etc.