Thinking of Going Back to Being Vegetarian

I currently raise lots of animals, but meat eating has not always been a part of my life. With the latest problems in the USA resulting from the drought, the cost of animal grain based feeds is already up and threatening to rise dramatically. My preference is to grass feed ruminants. I have a buyer for my Berkshires and will be saying good bye to them very soon. The goats can stay because I can milk them ( has anyone made butter from goats' milk?) and the sheep can stay for wool and milk. The shift of the farm was already scheduled to market gardening and permaculture focusing on fruits (sea buckthorn, apples, sour cherries, saskatoons, etc) and vegetables. The birds can stay to keep the bugs down and to provide eggs. I am still interested in rare breeds to promote breeding stock, but have to ask myself why, since the ultimate goal of many of the animals is for food. I suppose it is a time reevaluate the entire farming operation as it evolves. It is only just over a year old now. The first of the sea buckthorn and saskatoons are in the permaculture landscape already. In spring some apples and cherries will be planted, plus the gardens started.

It is not difficult to be a vegetarian, however; I am expected to cook meats for the bed and breakfast and will continue to do so I suppose. Now, I have experienced raising animals and eating their flesh. Even humanely raised in a loving environment, I feel it is not something I would like to continue. The animals are provided for and kept healthy, but it reminds me of an old movie where humans were raised for food by Enochs (modified humanoids adapted to living underground after thousands of years) and I am increasingly bothered by it. My original intention was to raise some animals as working partners on the farm and this has happened to a great extent. The Berkshires are the rototillers, the birds, the bug control, the llamas, the organic fertilizer group, the sheep, the fibre market and the ducks, the egg producers. Just what to do with the extra animals is the issue. Stop breeding comes to mind and that is definitely in my new plan. I believe most of the animals will live quite long lives and new stock will not be necessary except to offer to others who wish to have these breeds as their own breeding stock.

Anyhow, the thought of returning to a vegetarian (not vegan) lifestyle is strong on my mind. Are there any vegetarians on this forum?

To each their own. For myself, i could not be a vegetarian. Also, i don't feel bad at all for eating my culls. Keeping the breed alive and maintaining/improving it at the same time. It is preservation and the bonus is that there is a good source of protein on the table at the same time, win win. Piet

That reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw once. It read "Vegetarian- Old Indian name for poor hunter!". LOL!

Even if I had aspirations to be a vegetarian it would be a boring diet. I have severe allergies to legumes and nuts. Even many seeds bring on a reaction. A much as I love eggs and milk products I would sorely miss the large variety of meat I enjoy.

If no one ate bacon there would be NO pigs.

I'd be a vegetarian, but I can't get past the texture and taste of tofu

I was a vegetarian for 18 years but in my 40's developed an iron problem that plant iron couldn't satisfy, so I became a meat eater again. I do not eat a lot of meat, but love the taste of buffalo, and would buy farm raised beef if we could get it on the Sunshine Coast. My favourite meal is black beans with rice and salsa with homemade tortillas. I love the duck and chicken eggs and eat them almost every day and would like a goat for butter (http://www.motherearthnews.com/real-food/make-butter-goat-milk-zmaz75mjzgoe.aspx)and cheese,but will have to convince hubby as he is the one that is home during the day, or at least most days. I think that I could be a vegetarian again.

Eating meat, for some people, brings up philosophical or moral questions. Not just dietary.

But for the sake of kicking around an idea...I wonder about the sustainability of vegetrianism. Bear with me, this might be a crazy idea, but here goes.

Many of the vegetrains I know, while they would NEVER admit it, see themselves as slightly more moral than the rest of us. In their mind, by not eating meat, they are saving the world from some methane producing cow, belching death into the atmosphere. On the face of it, that seems acceptable.

However...where do Canadian vegetarians live? IN CANADA! What is the growing season for lemons, mangoes, pineapple and lettuce in Canada? None for some and about 2 months for the rest! MY point is that to be a vegetarian in Canada, you rely heavily on food TRUCKED FLOWN AND SHIPPED in from foreign lands in vehicles that are propelled by fossil fuels.

Ancient Canadians were meat-atarians because meat could be preserved by salting or drying and often by freezing! Fruits and vegetables however posed a greater preserving problem. Not impossible, but fruits and vegetables for our native peoples were in short supply and eaten in season or fairly shortly after they were preserved. Some of it was preserved in animal fat. If you eat berries preserved in animal fat, are you still a vegetarian?

It is possible for a vegetrain to put up a monster garden and can and freeze and pickle a ton of stuff. BUt I have never met any vegetrain that is even close to self sufficient on home preserved produce (it would drive one insane, canned green beans day after day!) SO are you truly and actually doing the planet a lick of good by being a vegetrian? In fact, the food you eat may have a higher carbon footprint than what a meat eater eats.

Then there's the whole topic of the political and human rights oppression of many of the people who harvest and grow these imported foods we put in our basket, as if we are entitled. Chocolate being at the top of the list. Do you only buy fair trade chocolate? You need to do some digging and find out what companies and corporations have bought out the fair trade brands...you will be horrified.

So, I think being a vegetarian because you think it's going to save the world is simply short sighted and silly. Being a vegetarin because you just don't like to eat meat seems reasonable to me.

I realize, The Fat Ewe, that none of this answers your question. I am NOT a vegetarian, although I eat less meat as I get older. But it is possible to be a 'farmer' who never kills an animal for consumption and I am sure there are people on this site who do just that!

Uno I think I feel what you mean concerning vegaterians. I am part of a network that is political and social. There are a lot of vegatarians and vegans. I dislike labels. I dislike people labeling a group as being "so & so." However, when it comes to the non-meat eating people, too many of them have such a self-righteous attitude of superiority. Choose to be something for whatever your reason is, I can respect. I can't respect someone who pulls the "I'm better than you because I don't eat meat." card.

I'm not a vegetarian but I have reduced the amount of meat from my diet considerably over the years. I do go through morals ponderings about eating my fellow creatures. The main reason I am eating less meat is because I don't trust factory farmed meat. I find myself eating more fish and bird than pork or beef.

I am an o type blood, we should eat lots of meat, so I would never think of going to vegetarian. I love meat. Every type of meat I can get into my tummy, I will eat -- and love it to boot, I could eat it every day, and mostly do have meat every day. Some store bought, some homegrown. Recently got a side of lamb. Getting a side of grass fed beef soon, access to lots of cockerels to eat, muscovy duck boys and girls coming, gonna have lots of meat this winter. and I say bring it.

My Husband is a lacto-vegetarian. It is basically a philosphy thing. He eats eggs, milk, honey -- thankin' my lucky stars -- but chooses not to eat anything that has had a life, a spirit, shall we more clearly indicate. This is a personal choice. Although he is a type A blood and should refrain from too much meat anyways. He does not digest beef or pork well, so it has done him good. He has been of this mind now for almost three years and without eating red meat, in particular, does not get that horrid acid reflux. Ya, he could have consumed something like papaya to help digest protein, or other protein assisters for digestion, but he just chose to not eat meat. Period.

This has totally changed my life -- and I would not say it is for the better. It has made it a little difficult, well, actually, me and others, more difficult than it should be and he knows so, smiling. When we go out for dinner elsewhere to others' homes, or here, there is always the worry, what can we cook Ken for his "meat" part of the dinner. I usually just bring his own piece of protein, whatever that may be, or he just eats the other things at food table, other than meat. But it does create some havoc with me, which I deal with. An example would be soup!! Yep, made some beautiful turkey soup, but I also, if I choose for him to dine with me eating pretty much the same idea thing for dinner, like soup, I have to make his without turkey broth and meat. Ya, a bit of a nuisance, we work around it. I think that he will one day come back from the dark side and again eat meat. He knows the good life that these critters have lead, and that they were taken care of. Much different than sourcing meat wherein you don't know the life they have lead. This I can see recently has made him begin to think about perhaps a lifestyle change...to me it doesn't really matter. It would make my life much more easy, less food preparation in this manner, but his choice, I work with his choices in life, although sometimes I could just kick his butt!! Was this called a rant? Perhaps, perhaps not, if it was, then I feel good that it is off my chest Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

Uno's made a good point about the cost to the environment re: shipping produce. To me, sustainability means eating locally grown food when ever possible, whether your choice is meat or not. I suppose that no matter how we choose to eat, there costs involved - environmental or otherwise.
I found this report very interesting. It deals with the environmental impact of eating only a plant-based diet. Although this is an Australian report, Ive read similar stats for North America.

Published figures suggest that, in Australia, producing wheat and other grains results in:
•at least 25 times more sentient animals being killed per kilogram of useable protein
•more environmental damage, and
•a great deal more animal cruelty than does farming red meat.

How is this possible?

Agriculture to produce wheat, rice and pulses requires clear-felling native vegetation. That act alone results in the deaths of thousands of Australian animals and plants per hectare. Since Europeans arrived on this continent we have lost more than half of Australia’s unique native vegetation, mostly to increase production of monocultures of introduced species for human consumption.

Most of Australia’s arable land is already in use. If more Australians want their nutritional needs to be met by plants, our arable land will need to be even more intensely farmed. This will require a net increase in the use of fertilisers, herbicides, pesticides and other threats to biodiversity and environmental health. Or, if existing laws are changed, more native vegetation could be cleared for agriculture (an area the size of Victoria plus Tasmania would be needed to produce the additional amount of plant-based food required)

That is very interesting, KathyS. I have learned something new today.

One concern I have heard for an animal-free diet is the lack of Vitamin B12 in such a diet.

Here is a quote and a source:

By definition vitamin B-12 is essential to human life. It is essential for the synthesis of nucleic acids, the maintenance of the myelin sheath (the insulation around nerves which when damaged causes Multiple Sclerosis); indeed its presence or deficiency affects nearly all body tissues, particularly those with rapidly dividing cells. Without it we suffer from pernicious anaemia which, as its name suggests, is deadly, and a degeneration of the nervous system.

Vitamin B-12 is unique among vitamins in that while it is found universally in foods of animal origin, where it is derived ultimately from bacteria, there is no active vitamin B-12 in anything which grows out of the ground. Where vitamin B-12 is found on plants it is there only fortuitously in bacterial contamination.

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Vitamin B12 is essential and can be taken as a suppliment in a Vegan diet. Those chosing this type of diet need to be well read and aware of nutrients they will be lacking if they chose to exclude animal products.

Actually, the world has enough food to feed its population. Considering the majority of grain raised goes to animals for meat production, even by decreasing meat consumption, more available food and water becomes available. There are several religious groups that are strictly vegetarian and some that are vegan. The Jains come to min. They are the gentlest people on Earth in my humble opinion and do not harm any life with intent to do so. For that reason, they do not eat root vegetables because they destroy the plant. The eat seeds, nuts, grains, and some eat milk products but none eat eggs (again, taking a life and I know one person at least is going to say it doesn't matter if they are not fertilized then). I did smile when I read some comments here. For non vegetarians, the thought of eating only vegetables is not appealing, however; true vegetarian cooking is rather marvellous, tasty and imaginative. Combinations of foods provide complete proteins and spices give the dishes exquisite tastes. I have had dinner parties and served only vegetarian meals, without apology, to meat eaters, and not one went hungry or missed the meat in the meal, or so they said. I did not preface those meals with an apology or even tell them there was no meat in the dishes.

Anyhow, ethically or morally, eating the flesh of dead animals is off limits to quite a few religions and not surprisingly, those who adhere to the tradition are healthy, often healthier than their meat centered counterparts. For the gentle Jains, the flesh of an animals or the snuffing out of plant life is more hurtful than they wish to be. Personally, I am nowhere as committed as any of the religious groups forbidding eating dead animal flesh. It is very possible to eat well and not consume meat. I can now go days on my own without having eaten meat and do not miss it, but I am not then eating properly because I have not prepared substitute protein dishes to be used instead.

Cynthia, are you familiar with a very old, 1970's book entitled, "Diet for a Small Planet"? In the vegetarian movement of that time, many publications came out teaching omnivores to eat proper vegetarian diets. I bet you would even enjoy many of the recipes of good vegetarian cooking. I am Ukrainian and for their special holidays, the Ukrainians ate meatless meals, notably the Christmas Eve Supper. My family and friends look forward all year to the evening and never miss the meat.

And, though it was not my topic of intent, a vegetarian world would not require more land, since most of our corn and grain is fed to animals. In ancient areas insects are consumed as protein sources. Hmm, is that meat?

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How coincidental! Today's bed and breakfast guests are vegetarian and the dinner for them was a vegetable ragout and bean and mushroom loaf with curry coconut sauce. They loved it!
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i like meat. period.

however as i have become involved in livestock and particularly with some of the heritage breeds, i look at the meat they provide slightly differently.
swine, most poultry, most cattle and most other varieties of livestock overall were developed to functionally put meat on a table.
i am a big fan of dogs, particularly working dogs. i put the value of a dog in the context of how capable it is at performing it's intended task, every other trait the dog has falls in order behind that. my view of true stewards of a breed of dog are those who select and maintain or improve on the performance aspect of the breed.
i look at livestock the same way. if any of us are going to consider ourselves stewards of any of these breeds or types of livestock, the intended purpose of that variety of livestock needs to be our number one goal. if not the result very quickly turns into specimens who simply resemble an animal who once had a certain trait. nothing more. the dog world is full of examples of this.
to breed or propogate a breed of chicken, pig, sheep or most anything else; how well the stock performs as a meat product is crucial when it comes to selection.
many of us are here not only because we enjoy keeping specimens but because we consider these breeds and types worth saving, and the meat properties of these animals is in large part their measuring stick.
were it not for butcher qualites, we would have no need for any other breed of chicken beyond commercial leghorns, or holsteins when it comes to dairy etc etc etc.
we owe to these breeds and to those coming after us to selectively breed for functionality. and butcher purposes need to be a very large part of that. it is the lack of interest in these diverse traits that almost (and in many cases, has) cost us this slice of history already.
if someone eats meat or doesn't, it makes no difference to me, but if someone is going to propogate one of these dual-purpose, backyard or heritage breeds, they owe it to many of us to do their share and select in the best interest of the future of the breed.

Well I for one, am with you Fat Ewe. I dont enjoy meat. Well I do and I dont. I dont label myself as any one particular thing is vegan, vegetarian, lacto whatever....I eat what I want when I want it. I will choke back a burger now and then. I love gravy. I will make myself a chicken sandwich, easy on the chicken, heavy on the cranberry and mayo. Something about eating meat has always bothered me. And now that I have raised chickens and rabbits for meat I have more issues with it. Sure Ive raised them myself and gave them a good, albeit short, life, I have a problem with eating it.
Now having said all this...I love bacon. I will eat bacon everyday of the week. SO here is my quarrel within myself. I will eat what I want when I want it. Even if it goes against my moral code. I guess if I had to label myself I would be a "Hedonarian".

Jaclyn

The Fat Ewe wrote:It is not difficult to be a vegetarian, however; I am expected to cook meats for the bed and breakfast and will continue to do so I suppose.

Why can't you be a vegetarian bed & breakfast? It's your business, you can do what you want with it. Even dedicated carnivores, like myself, eat meatless meals a few times each week. Simply add "all meals are vegetarian" to your advertising and promotional materials and you're golden.

If you're planning to grow your own vegetables and fruit, and you have your own eggs, you could really market that home-grown, sustainable thing to your prospective clients - the movement towards self-sustainability is HUGE right now, so if you market it correctly, there's no reason you'd need to be cooking meat for your guests. If they want a steak that badly, they can head to a restaurant.