The price of a pig or chicken

There has been discussion on the price of eggs and chicken so I want to take it futher to see if my thinking is inline with others or completely out to lunch. I just bought a weiner pig today for $75 which is what the seller and I agreed was the going rate. Now I spent $70 on fuel and 8 hours to go get the pig. Yes I had to drive that far just to get a pig. Is the pig now worth $145 because it cost that much? I say no it is still a $75 pig. Is the same true for a chicken? If you buy a hen at $50 then spend $400 getting her across the boarder is she now worth $450? Again I would say no, she is still just a $50 hen. From reading post some people seem to say whatever you put into the animal that is what it is worth. I again would disagree because if that were true every sick animal would be worth more then a healthy one, as you had to spend money on vet and medication bills for the sick animal. I think the same is true for feed, if you spend $50 feeding a chicken for the year, that does not increase the value of the chicken by $50.

Makes sense to me
Hey did you get that post about the pups you have??

I like to amortize costs like that.

Either way, if you aren't including all costs to yourself that keeping your birds is you're going to end up losing money.

I do not spend money on sick animals I put them down when I find them sick saves on feed sure I take a loss some times but it is not always about the money

I agree that you can't always get back what you put into an animal. The reason a chicken can be worth more that was brought into the country is because you can't buy that breed or bloodline here which is different than the pig example. I imagine that the pig could be bought here but if you wanted a specific pig blood line that could only be acquired in the south Eastern USA then I would say that if another person who lives here wanted that blood line then yes they should be willing to pay towards the extra costs that you paid to get it here and if they are not willing to pay the extra cost then don't and don't have that blood line. Kind of like comparing a Toyota Prius to a Beamer. You can argue that why should I pay more for the Beamer when both cars have 4 wheels , a battery, an alternator, 4 doors,a radio, lights, a trunk and an engine. While yes that is true that they have similarities but if you want the reliability,engineering and prestige that comes with owning the Beamer then I say pay more or don't and don't buy it. The same argument can be used for the question, " Why is an endangered breed of chicken, or rare heritage chicken worth more than a production Isa Brown or a Leghorn?" answer is the same....If you are happy with the production Isa or leghorn then buy those and save money. If you are happy with used thrift store clothing then buy them and save money but if you are not then pay more and buy new or pay even more and buy new designer clothing.

If I buy a hen for fair market value at $50 and it costs me $100 to get her to my house, then TO ME the animal's total cost value is $150.

If I am asked what is the value of that hen, ie I am going to sell her, then her value at fair market value is $50 UNLESS that particular breed/bloodline/colour/what ever is difficult to get ahold of in your area and is highly valued or sought after. Then her value would go up through the laws of supply and demand. Her value at that time would be what ever the market would bear. It could be $55 it could be $255.

What can you sell her for? That is another matter. But her COST VALUE to you is still $150.

Have a similar discussion about horses with the Horsey Teen Daughter.

I tell her by the time she takes into account what it costs her to feed/board one of her horses, she has to sell it for over $10,000 to break even!

But if that logic were applied to everything...then a used car would be 100 times more expensive than a new car, because of all the fuel the owner had to put in it! If you buy a car for $5000, and put that much fuel in it over the next year or two, then you need $10,000 to get your money out of it. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN! And most people don't even think about it happening!

How come we want our 'running' costs back on a horse or other animal, but don't expect to get them back on a vehicle? I might come up with some theory if I thought hard. But I can't think very hard. Or very well.

Its really a question of what you bought the pig for. If it's freezer bound, and you want to know what the cost of the meat is, then you'd have to factor in travel costs, feed, vet ect. However, as people have mentioned, if its a breeding animal, you may be able to note a recoup of the extra money you spent on travel in offspring sales. Unless its just a hobby and you've got a hunk of cash laying around

Uno, the reason we dont recoup our losses on Auto's is that every tank of gas used puts more wear on the vehicle, which shortenes its "lifespan." The car's only real value is in its ability to transport us, which is effected by how many miles its got left in it.

A "food" animal's value is expressed either in resale value,(Affected by travel costs, feed, vet ect) or final tally at the freezer door. Or in entertainment value when you throw a peice of watermelon into the pen and the Chicken Apocalypse decends on it

Well said Swamp Hen!

I sell my weaner piglets for $100 each. This is still less than it costs me to raise them. I don't care what the going rate is - if I can't sell them for what it costs me to raise them I'll keep them myself and send them to the butcher when the time comes. I know I can make a good rate selling meat. Or stop raising them entirely. I'm not in this to lose money, even if I calculate my time and energy at zero.

Cars aren't like livestock - they depreciate the moment they come out of the factory, livestock gets better and better until they peak and then even they begin to lose value. When I sell cows for example I think about how many potential calves this animal has left to produce, problem free calves at least, how many health problems the animal may face as a result of advancing age. An old lawn ornament will be worth less than a young cow who has proved to be a good calver, or a bull who has shown he is a reliable sire of top quality calves.

If I import livestock it is for my own use, if someone wants a part of that import they will have to pay the fair price for my efforts.

If someone doesn't want to pay that price - too bad. I'm not in this to lose money, I don't buy or raise animals to flood an already glutted market. I don't buy animals I can't sell as meat if all else fails.

I won't be hammered down to the lowest possible price. That's just foolishness.

I dont think you can count fuel in the car as part of the value ans the money that goes to the fuel would be assigned as a cost of travel, not a cost of owning the car. On the other hand the cost of repairs would be part of the cost of owning the car.

At the same time, it would not be part of the value of the car unless they were upgrades. They would only go towards not loosing value through depreciation.

But if you wanted a BMW directly from Europe, and it cost you $75000 for the car and $25000 for transport, the initial cost value of the vehicle. After that the car's value is determined by market value, upgarades, maintenance, depreciation and demand.

For an animal, depending on the species the value can rise and fall with age, training, testing etc. A 1 year old colt who is halter broke is not worth as much as a trained 6 year old reigning horse. On the other hand a 1 year old halter broke horse would most likely be worth more than a 6 year old who founders, is not saddle broke, cribs, heaves etc.

A chick may be worth $4, but at point of lay it would be more, and if it is of exceptional quality it would be worth more. BUt by the time it is 3 or 4 yrs or more, it would most likely be worth less as its productivity would be down.

Many people expect to "get thier money back" because they are cheap S#%*&@s in the first plae with no actual appreciation or understanding of the value of an ainmal. They understand that a car depreciates in value the moment that it leaves the lot, but they dont understand that just because you paid $25 for a hen at POL, you cant sell it for $25 plus cost of keeping, at 5 years old.
Sheesh

Heda, great post.

Thanks. I worried - 3rd glass of wine - you never know what nonsense might spill out. I'm off to bed... night all....

Yep Heda, well said. My theory with the chickens has always been that if I can't earn back what it cost me to raise the pullet to POL, for example, I will butcher it and eat it myself. I'm not going to pay someone to take my birds

heda gobbler wrote:Well said Swamp Hen!

I sell my weaner piglets for $100 each. This is still less than it costs me to raise them. I don't care what the going rate is - if I can't sell them for what it costs me to raise them I'll keep them myself and send them to the butcher when the time comes. I know I can make a good rate selling meat. Or stop raising them entirely. I'm not in this to lose money, even if I calculate my time and energy at zero.

Cars aren't like livestock - they depreciate the moment they come out of the factory, livestock gets better and better until they peak and then even they begin to lose value. When I sell cows for example I think about how many potential calves this animal has left to produce, problem free calves at least, how many health problems the animal may face as a result of advancing age. An old lawn ornament will be worth less than a young cow who has proved to be a good calver, or a bull who has shown he is a reliable sire of top quality calves.

If I import livestock it is for my own use, if someone wants a part of that import they will have to pay the fair price for my efforts.

If someone doesn't want to pay that price - too bad. I'm not in this to lose money, I don't buy or raise animals to flood an already glutted market. I don't buy animals I can't sell as meat if all else fails.

I won't be hammered down to the lowest possible price. That's just foolishness.

Well said.

If I had bought two pigs then the cost of transport would be half. Now I raise both pigs, feed them the same and am ready to sell, However one pig is market size 230# and the other is a runt at 100#. Since I have the same amount of money in each pig can I sell them for the same price? Is it the same for chickens? I raise some as layers but 6 lay 5 eggs a week and 6 lay 2 eggs a week, since I have just as much in all the chickens, can I sell them for the same amount? Do you really care if the chicken is quality and productive, or do you just need costs plus profit? Does it matter if the buyer pays the same for a 2 egg chicken as a 5 eggs chicken. Are these questions spieces specific can you charge your cost plus profit for one but not the other? When calves are sold each is priced on their own value and quality, the same is true with horses you can raise two, one will sell for $1000 the next $200 even though the cost to raise them was $500 each. If I have $30 in a ready to butcher 6 pounder and can't sell it for $40 to make a profit so I eat it myself, I am losing money eating $5 a pound chicken.

When putting a value on chickens I have grown out, I dont try to sell them all for the same price, even though all of the input costs are the same.
I'll use my cochins as an example. By the time my Cochins are 4 months old I can see which are going to have proper color in feathers and feet, which will have the best feathering on their toes, which are developing a good body type and growing well. I can assess them for faults like split wings, bent toes, vulture hocks or poor combs.
By last month I could see I had several pullets that did not meet my expectations and I sold them at the CHB market sale as nice backyard layers for $20.00 each. I didn't mind explaining to people why they were not being sold as breeders. Many went to city homes where they will make nice pets for people.
The best of this year's crop I'm continuing to grow out. I'll use some myself as breeding stock. Others will be offered for sale, but these hens won't be $20.00 each. They have a higher value because there is the potential for producing not only eggs, but also more offspring of good quality. If they happen to do well in a show, I think thats sort of a seal of approval from the expert that this bird is a good representation of the breed, and as such people are willing to pay more.
There are lots of factors to consider in the pure breeds of livestock that go beyond input costs.

What would a legit bizzniz do? How would a tax paying munny making service to the public handle these types of decisions? Some here don't live on farms per say and have no real stake in whether or not a farmer loses his shirt in a deal. I believe the market conditions are carefully arranged so only the craftiest sharpest players can make any substantial profits. I remember a news article in the 80's that covered the backyard poultry industry. In that article corporate representatives admitted to taking complete advantage of uneducated farmers who could not function in any competitive way with educated business people. They admitted to mining backyard flocks for "producer" birds, those 1/1000 that commercial operations are founded on. They went to any backyard keeper offering whatever price was necessary so only they have these types of birds. Sure a few would be left behind but they were confident no one had the ability to breed any up to compete since most were considered fools for not knowing what they were selling, who they sold to, how much their product was worth (some were worth many thosands but purchased for mere hundreds and those selling wondered why that sucker paid so much), or the long term consequences of their ignorance. At that time they figured it would take any one of us 20 years to breed up a flock of producers, 20,000 birds at the very least to cull down to a starting point, again confident no one is capable of this, and if some cumupper tried they are quite ready for it. The biggest factor in their favor is the highly competitive nature of
breeders, not working together, not sharing info, backbiting and arguing. Now there are many regulations lobbied into place making it even further out of reach for any profitmaking. So, no matter what you decide for asking price, think again about who is benefitting who, whom whatever, PUT YOUR FATE BACK INTO YOUR OWN HANDS,

.

uno wrote:Have a similar discussion about horses with the Horsey Teen Daughter.

I tell her by the time she takes into account what it costs her to feed/board one of her horses, she has to sell it for over $10,000 to break even!

But if that logic were applied to everything...then a used car would be 100 times more expensive than a new car, because of all the fuel the owner had to put in it! If you buy a car for $5000, and put that much fuel in it over the next year or two, then you need $10,000 to get your money out of it. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN! And most people don't even think about it happening!

How come we want our 'running' costs back on a horse or other animal, but don't expect to get them back on a vehicle? I might come up with some theory if I thought hard. But I can't think very hard. Or very well.

Here is my theory. You don't buy a horse or car to make a profit when you sell it 8 years later if you did you would have to factor in all the cab fares that you saved by not having to use a cab and using the car for the 100,000 km that you drove it and that goes for the horse as well. You enjoy the horse and the ability to ride it and to bond to it. Now if you are a car salesman or a horse salesman then you would have to buy wholesale or less than retail and hope to sell retail to make the profit that you intend. If I am selling a Heritage bird that is 2 years old of course I would sell her for less than a ready to lay because I have received eggs and or chicks from her over the past 1 1/2 years and she is closer to her expiry date. That is the way I look at it.

Get a dozen pig eggs and hatch them.

.

"Cost" and "value" are higher cost than value in the hobby world vs the commercial industry has lower cost and greater value per animal and Higgins surely explained that one quite well.
Puppy mills will actually have greater "value" then "cost" and that goes at cost of #1: the well being of the animal and #2 the preservation of the breed, those two things suffer greatly. To break even in the hobby, I think that those two things would still suffer.

Value is whatever the person buying is willing to pay and whatever you are willing to take before letting go of the animal. I value my rabbits and some of my chickens much higher than my cost, and sell them for more than cost, but also in the whole group I only sell maybe 10 % of them (if that!!). Some get culled out early, some go to freezer camp and the ones that I like but have no room for can go make another person happy. From those keepers that I have no room for, I give away 50 % and sell some for meat price and sell some for a high dollar to those that I don't know:) I take preservation of the breeds that I have as first importance, then I want to show some of my work and compete. I will sell some "extras" to others that are keen on doing the same as I do. In this hobby of mine I can sell some animals for much higher than cost, because some people will recognize the "value" it can have for them and I will also pay the same of higher prices for something that I really want or need in the program. I have had 1500 dollar cost on one rabbit and I ate all the babies it had, because they turned out to be junk! And that is some tough meat! I also could have sold them with a nice story and tried to make my money back, but I choose not to sell off in order to make money or break even. My actual job makes money. Hobby may cost money, hobbies cost money and if I have to rely on sales in order to stay in the hobby, it would be time to call it quits and by a tennis racket. The tennis racket does not eat, shit and piss, need bedding, heat and a babysitter when I am not home.

Anyway, what was the question again??
Its probably a lot easier to buy a porkchop once a week and eat it instead of raising a then butcher it and eat it, but it is more fun to do it all yourself and now you can eat a lot more faster and really feel good about the quality of the meat, its hobby farming, its great!

heda gobbler wrote:Well said Swamp Hen!

I sell my weaner piglets for $100 each. This is still less than it costs me to raise them. I don't care what the going rate is - if I can't sell them for what it costs me to raise them I'll keep them myself and send them to the butcher when the time comes. I know I can make a good rate selling meat. Or stop raising them entirely. I'm not in this to lose money, even if I calculate my time and energy at zero.

Cars aren't like livestock - they depreciate the moment they come out of the factory, livestock gets better and better until they peak and then even they begin to lose value. When I sell cows for example I think about how many potential calves this animal has left to produce, problem free calves at least, how many health problems the animal may face as a result of advancing age. An old lawn ornament will be worth less than a young cow who has proved to be a good calver, or a bull who has shown he is a reliable sire of top quality calves.

If I import livestock it is for my own use, if someone wants a part of that import they will have to pay the fair price for my efforts.

If someone doesn't want to pay that price - too bad. I'm not in this to lose money, I don't buy or raise animals to flood an already glutted market. I don't buy animals I can't sell as meat if all else fails.

I won't be hammered down to the lowest possible price. That's just foolishness.

Heda I have friends in BC and they have clued me in to the cost of feed there. If it is costing more then $100 to raise a wiener pig, what does it cost to raise butcher hogs? To me this does not seem to be cost effective but is the only way to get good food.