New Flu Outbreak

Bob G wrote: . Of note  2 houses down a flock of ISA type layers has not  been                               CFIA culled the rest.

                                                                                       

I am not understanding this comment....wht does it mean? Have an awesome day, CynthiaM.

Sorry Cindi failed attempt at editing The original outbreak had some die immediately the rest culled by CFIA

Thanks BobG, now that makes total sense, smiling...have a wonderful day, CynthiaM

Bob G wrote:Sorry Wayne I needed more info , I wanted  to make sure I was not misinformed , The flock was 80 birds a mix of heritage and ISA type layers age of fowl18 months to 4 yrs. Free ranged flock deaths came suddenly according to my source the strain in this case was  H5 N1 , commercial barns was H5 N2 I think . Of note  2 houses down a flock of ISA type layers has not  been infected .    

Thanks Bob, well one thing I can say with certainty and that is that Low Path avian flu cannot evolve into High Path in a flock as small as 80 free range birds. Therefore, if they culled that flock for carrying High Path, the High Path most likely came from one of the industrial farms in the area. Most likely via wild birds, but it could also have been through people crossing paths. All feed is coming from the same common sources.

I would also like to point out that if the survivors were not culled, 80 mixed breed birds in a free range setting means that most likely if the disease was allowed to run it's course, there would have been survivors for spring hatching. The disease would not be able to persist in such a small flock  and therefore it would carry on with the natural cycles of life. Such was the natural way of things before industrial farms turned avian flu into something to be paranoid over.  


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I'm sorry Katt, but it makes no biological sense for "It's a high path AI strain found naturally in wild populations". For the most part, wild populations lack the densities that are biologically required to allow the mutation from low path to high path. One major exception is that lake in ?China? where the seasonal populations are just this dense. I don't know the Pacific Northwest as well as I would like, but I'm not aware of any areas where our wild birds congregate in such densities.

I suppose one consideration is that the wild population is carrying a low path strain that behaves as a high path in industrial poultry? The genetic diversity of domestic fowl is much narrower than that of wild waterfowl, so I could see this as a possibility. Just speculating of course, looking for answers to biological inconsistencies. If this is the case, then we are just tripping over symantics. The flu would still be a LOW Path when discussed in the context of the wild birds, but would be regarded as High Path when discussed in the context of domestic birds.

Omega Blue Farms wrote:

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I'm sorry Katt, but it makes no biological sense for "It's a high path AI strain found naturally in wild populations". For the most part, wild populations lack the densities that are biologically required to allow the mutation from low path to high path. One major exception is that lake in ?China? where the seasonal populations are just this dense. I don't know the Pacific Northwest as well as I would like, but I'm not aware of any areas where our wild birds congregate in such densities.

I suppose one consideration is that the wild population is carrying a low path strain that behaves as a high path in industrial poultry? The genetic diversity of domestic fowl is much narrower than that of wild waterfowl, so I could see this as a possibility. Just speculating of course, looking for answers to biological inconsistencies. If this is the case, then we are just tripping over symantics. The flu would still be a LOW Path when discussed in the context of the wild birds, but would be regarded as High Path when discussed in the context of domestic birds.

HPAI has been found in wild bird populations, specifically the first pintail duck found in WA state and the gyrfalcons that ate wild duck in WA state were found to have high path AI, I'm looking at the document from the USDA's townhall meeting held in Lyden regarding avian flu right now.

Our birds migrate up north where they are found in great dense flocks in particular Snow geese can be found in massive breeding flocks winter together. We do, and have the dense populations needed to support such a mutation occurring.

I'm not sure if you called into the small flock poultry teleconference that the CFIA held in January, but Victoria Bowes did say what made this particular outbreak of concern was that the strain was already a HPAI and not like previous LPAI -> HPAI outbreaks. I also listened to a webcast from a USDA veterinarian regarding the strains of AI going around as the states were/are reporting a different serotype of AI than what we are finding up here and this distinction of a HPAI already occuring in the wild was made. We may not be seeing massive die offs of wild waterfowl as it may have occurred up north where no one is looking, but the truth is waterfowl can carry AI without ever being affected by it which is something I learned from listening to the webcasts.

An interesting, but informative journal regarding resistance to HPAI and LPAI in waterfowl. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

bcboy wrote:

debbiej wrote:I live mid Island,  between Qualicum Beach and Qualicum Bay.  Every year in January the beautiful Snow Geese arrive, they aren't too far from my place at the potato farm/ Cranberry bogs. There is also a huge flock at the Comox Valley  veg farm. They stay here for over a month. The the spectacular Trumpeter Swans arrive, much the same senario.  We have no cases of  Bird Flu on the Island, didn't last time either.  We also don't have huge congregations of intense poultry barns. We have lots of small backyard  and hobby flocks.  Just a thought.

Have you seen and dead migratory birds around your area this year? That would be a bad signs....

I haven't seen any dead birds around here. Looks like the Snow Geese have moved on, none around today.

I hear there is a flu outbreak in Ontario

Echo 1 wrote:I hear there is a flu outbreak in Ontario

Is this the one?
Turkey Farm Woodstock Ontario
Preliminary testing by the province of Ontario has confirmed the presence of H5 avian influenza on a turkey farm near Woodstock, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency said on Monday. The CFIA said it has placed the farm and a neighboring farm on quarantine to control the disease, adding that the industry sector had been notified to adopt biosecurity practices.

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Yes that is the one I was thinking of.

It seems that the Ontario outbreak may be due to infection somehow from Minnesota- not because of migratory birds. I have not confirmed this but this is what I have heard. There have been no new cases in Ontario as of today the 13th.

Derbyshire, Robbie I think you are on the right track with the turkey thoughts, the outbreak in turkeys in Minn was h5n2 thru waterfowl . All Ontario breeders should be on guard while the northern migration is on. Good luck