Columbian or Light Brahma

Hey All,

Just wondering if someone can clarify...

Is there a columbian brahma?

I thought columbian referred to the feather color pattern. I believe a white and black brahma with a columbian pattern is a light brahma? Am I correct?

Are there two different varieties or is it the same variety being called two different names?

Thanks,
Klassy

To my knowledge it is light or dark in brahma fowl .

Okay, that is what I thought.

I currently have bantams and have been thinking about getting some LF too.

I came across an add this morning advertising these Columbian Brahmas which look identical to the lights. The gentleman claims to have the only breeding stock in Canada and is asking $120 per chick and $80 per egg   So I was very curious!

There is a Blue Columbian Brahma and many other colour patterns as well.

Light brahmas have the color and pattern that is called columbian in chickens. It is one of my favorite patterns.

Brahmas are recognized in light (columbian), dark (silver pencilled) and buff (columbian markings on a buff bird).

The columbian pattern comes in many colors, not all are recognized in the brahma breed (yet).

thanks Sue totally forgot about the Buff. My oldtimers was kicking in again!

Bob, have you seen other colors in Brahmas as well? I have seen a blue Columbian (blue neck feathers) and black brahma. Many fun projects, but they didn't come close to the size and bearing of a true gigantic heavy Brahma!

Hi Klassy,

Brahmas have been around for many years.  There are large and bantam Brahmas.  To say that he is the only breeder for the Brahma' in Canada is totally wrong.  In Alberta alone there are at least four or five breeders that I know, including myself.  $120 for a chick is joke.  

Now, when you talk about the Brahmas be carefully to make sure that you get the American type not the European type.  The European breed have vulture hocks which is a DQ in North America.  As to the variety only the Light (Colombian), Dark (Penciled) and Buff are recognized by the APA.  I have also seen and judged black and pure white Brahmas in the bantam breed.  There is lots of bantam Brahmas around and are shown lots.

I don't know where my brain was yesterday?

Of course there are buffs... that is what's out in my barn   For some crazy reason I thought BobG was referring to them as darks! I figured it all out last night when I was looking through the SOP.

Blue Columbian sounds interesting I love the Columbian feather pattern!

I first saw Blue Brahmas in the 70 s an old breeder , ex jockey . He had stock from the UK , smuggled the eggs in ! Great colour but vulture hocks were a major problem. He also had large Birchen Pit games.The line of games was over 100 years in his family !! In 1984 both he and his fowl died in a barn fire. He was a true master breeder IMO!!

Sebas, thank you that is exactly the info that I was looking for.

I love the buff bantams I have now but use them mainly for brooding. We are a large family so it would be nice to put a bigger carcass on the table. I thought the price was too high.... maybe he does not realize columbian and lights are the same? I had to ask here!

Are there people here in Canada that are breeding to the European standard purposely?

I have been really enjoying the heritage chickens and hope to soon start a few of my own breeding groups. I have been reading and researching for the last year or two and wow, is there ever a lot to learn. It always seems like I find the answer to one question and then it leads to more questions! I purchased a SOP this year and plan to get a few genetic books, hopefully I can get to a show or two and meet a few people as well as see some good examples of birds!

I know someone who has European Light brahmas. They are huge, but as Rico says, vulture hocks. His also occasionally produces the blue neck feathers.

KlassyChic wrote:Okay, that is what I thought.

I currently have bantams and have been thinking about getting some LF too.

I came across an add this morning advertising these Columbian Brahmas which look identical to the lights. The gentleman claims to have the only breeding stock in Canada and is asking $120 per chick and $80 per egg   So I was very curious!

Sounds like someone is trying to take advantage of others with hugely inflated prices and false claims. This is becoming a bit of an epidemic lately! $120 per bird is a fair price...But NOT for baby chicks!!

When is that a reasonable asking price? Im my opinion, it's only fair if most, if not all of the following criteria have been met:

1) the parent stock comes from some of the best known bloodlines available. Health, productivity, fertility etc has been proven over the generations.
2) the breeder has many years invested in the breed, learning the pros and cons of the bloodline and working out weakenesses.
3) the bird being sold is a young adult, old enough to accurately assess quality including finished size, color and other attributes but still young enough to have a long productive life ahead. ie) Pullets should be at point of lay, or very close to it.
4) the bird has either been shown successfully and placed well, or has been assessed by a qualified judge and is found to be free of defects.

I've paid more for a bird than $120, but only if it meets all of the above and more. As a breeder I can't imagine asking a price like that for a baby chick when you can have no clue what you are selling. As a buyer it is always so important to remember Buyer Beware! You cannot know what you will be getting when buying chicks, and they could very well end up being very expensive culls!

KathyS wrote:Sounds like someone is trying to take advantage of others with hugely inflated prices and false claims.  This is becoming a bit of an epidemic lately!  $120 per bird is a fair price...But NOT for baby chicks!!

When is that a reasonable asking price? Im my opinion, it's only fair if most, if not all of the following criteria have been met:

1) the parent stock comes from some of the best known bloodlines available.  Health, productivity, fertility etc has been proven over the generations.
2) the breeder has many years invested in the breed, learning the pros and cons of the bloodline and working out weakenesses.
3) the bird being sold is a young adult, old enough to accurately assess quality including finished size, color and other attributes but still young enough to have a long productive life ahead.  ie) Pullets should be at point of lay, or very close to it.
4) the bird has either been shown successfully and placed well, or has been assessed by a qualified judge and is found to be free of defects.

I've paid more for a bird than $120, but only if it meets all of the above and more.  As a breeder I can't imagine asking a price like that for a baby chick when you can have no clue what you are selling.  As a buyer it is always so important to remember Buyer Beware!  You cannot know what you will be getting when buying chicks, and they could very well end up being very expensive culls!  

I agree!!

I am willing to pay a buttload of cash for mature birds, but NEVER would I shell out big bucks for day olds or eggs.

KlassyChic wrote:

Are there people here in Canada that are breeding to the European standard purposely?

As far as Brahmas go, I haven't heard of anyone around here who purposely breeds to the European standard.  It doesn't really make sense to do this, since the vulture hocks would disqualify them from shows in North America.  And although the large fowl Brahmas are huge, heavy birds, they aren't the most efficient meat chickens.  So exhibition and conservation has become primary goals of buyers.  If a buyer can't show them, the value drops.
Sometimes breeding stock is imported (or eggs are sneaked across the pond as Bob G mentioned) to provide new blood.  But in the case of European Brahmas, crossing them with our stock means battling those difficult vulture hocks for a few years.

The fella I know who has the German lines used to show and loves the brahmas but was not happy with their production of eggs and wanted a brahma that was closer to it's dual purpose origins. He is breeding solely for himself and his birds are ginormous.

KathyS, thank you for explaining why one might come across a European standard bird. Importing makes sense! I couldn't figure out why in the heck anyone would try to breed to another countries standard? Your advice on selection and price is very helpful and I will be adding that to my personal notes!!

I live quite far north and don't get down south too often so I am used to paying more for birds by the time I cover gas or shipping expenses. Half the time it ends up being eggs as they are easier to transport but I have had some pretty rotten luck. I would prefer mature stock any day, birds from a reputable breeder would be worth every penny!

This gentleman with the add is close and sometimes you must take what you can get... but I had never planned to purchase. He claims they are show stock but I did not think they were very close to standard. I was just curious as I had not heard of a Columbian Brahma. He has two or three other breeds he is charging close to the same price for.

The biggest problems I am having finding really nice stock are my location, lack of experience and I have not met a lot of people in the chicken world. People work so hard to get their birds meeting the standard why would they want to give them to a stranger?

It does make sense.... if I mess up in my breeding program and am selling "bad" birds claiming they are from so and so's stock, how does that make the breeder look. Obviously if it is a major error you should not sell the birds but can you trust a complete stranger to keep their word? Also if I mess up then all of the breeders hard work is lost. Then you have the people who are not as serious and dedicated as they think or just lose interest after a period of time. I can see how these things would be frustrating to a breeder. Not many hard core chicken keepers up here so finding a mentor is tough and I am a little shy.  I don't even like posting here as I am not always great with words and it can be hard to judge people by words on a computer screen. Once I get to know you good luck getting me to shut up! I could talk chickens for hours!

I have never enjoyed a hobby this much and plan to keep chicken's until I die! I have driven my family half bonkers with chicken talk but they love me and are happy to see I am finally doing something for myself instead of everyone else. Hubby builds all kinds of things for me and sometime's does it twice when I change my mind  He is so good to me but draws the line at listening to any genetic talk lol! I have little interest in showing but I do like the idea of conservation and filling my freezer.

Look at me rambling on... I must be getting more comfortable 

Your post made me smile KlassyChic, as do my chickens....I can watch them for hours on end!

 

Hi

Like every other breed of chickens their are people trying to breed new colors and be the first. Their are a lot of new Brahma colors being developed. I saw the birds sold at Ty's auction as Blue Colombian Brahmas. They were big beautiful birds, very well developed and nicely feathered.

However, I do not know if any of these new colors have been recognized for showing. I expect with so many people working on them eventually some of the colors will be admitted, but it is a long process to do.

I have seen 4 different colors myself, however they are not recognized at this time.

I have heard that there are many more colors in the Europe standards. Would like to know if anyone knows how to find out.

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