The mystery deaths

I've had 3 (4 technically, as the 3rd hatch was done both in the bator and outside the bator under a broody, which hatched hers a couple days later) hatches this year. 1 early, at the end of march and one towards the beginning of may. This last hatch has been suffering mysterious deaths with NO SYMPTOMS observed. There is no bloody or runny poop, no pasty butts, no lethargy, wheezing, upper respiratory struggle or (as far as I can tell) broken bones, no weight loss. They die in piles or near eachother, in groups of 2, 3 or 4. Initially, it was only shipped egg chicks that were dying. I started treating the way I treat everything, oregano oil, probiotic, aloe vera juice. I figured maybe this is what happens with shipped chicks, failure to thrive or whatever. Then after losing half those chicks, the chicks from my own eggs started dying.

Pure chanties are not dying from that hatch. The ones from the broody are not dying in nearly the numbers (Broody is 1 out of 7, bator hatch is over HALF), from the same batch of eggs and hatched at around the same time. Normally, I'd say cocci, but I just do -not- think so, the symptoms aren't there. This dying in piles thing bothers me. I thought the drake was killing them but I moved them all out of there and it's still happening.

They are not dying in corners. They are eating and drinking. Their bodies are not broken or damaged, it's like they lay down and go to sleep and never get up. And it's only one hatch. And only in these young birds, non white birds (birds that are not pure white, ie have some spots or tips are silver in this case) are the only ones dying off (thus far).

Lets start listing off things it could be so I can start researching them. I don't think (but don't know any better) that it's Cocci or Croyza.

Hey Sweetened, I’ve been mulling this over since we chatted yesterday and I keep coming back around to coccidiosis. From what I know about cocci is that it’s naturally occurring, found in soil, and that there are MANY strains. Rodents (those dang mice) and wild birds are a few of the critters that can carry and shed it. And you don’t have to see blood in their poop or any of the usual tell-tale symptoms, just poor birds dropping dead. I’m beginning to suspect your birds may have been eating mouse droppings and picked some nasty cocci strain up. And would make sense the ones with weaker immune systems would be affected first before the rest. My advice would be to get yourself some amprolium ASAP, like yesterday, and treat all the youngsters in the same coop. The amprolium will not hurt them if they don’t have coccidiosis, but may save the rest if they do! I know Cowtown in Regina sells 4L jugs for $129.99, but you can often get the stuff on tap in smaller quantities at a farm and ranch vet clinic. I used to get mine from the clinic outside of MJ. I am really sorry this is happening to your chickies.

Oh girl, how disheartening and you must feel so perplexed. I wonder too, what on earth this could be, but I am wondering if Flicker has it on the nail. You said that you have a large infestation of mice (well, I think you did). I wonder if they are eating the mice feces and they are indeed contracting something from this. It totally sounds like something like that. Yes, coccidiosis does not have to have blood in the feces, from what I have read too. Gack, this must be just dreadful for you and I feel bad. Wish I could help you figure it out, but am at a loss. Gack, how does one prevent chicks from eating stuff that they should not, sigh....wishes for this to be figured out and what to do, still find something in this day to make you smile, look to the critters, for sure, they can always bring happiness, CynthiaM.

I was actually just posting back when I noticed an email come through with your response.  As I have been doing the past few days, I go into the coop and check every bird from this hatch to see if there are any symptoms up close.  I finally found one with symptoms, who did not have them yesterday, might I reiterate.

This young'n was normal weight, good, shiny feathers, no breathing problems, rattly chest, nothing.  Not listless, has energy, HOWEVER, one eye was closed tightly shut and the other eye only half open giving her a tired appearance despite her (I think her, lack of arguement here we'll stick with that) activity level.  I pried open her stuck-shut eye and found no puss, just looots of cloudy white water behind it.  I suspect it burned because she closed her eye tight again.  So I brought her in the house last night, dosed her up on yogurt, AVJ and GSE, turned the heat lamp on and set the temperature to 72F and left her for the night.  

This morning, her stuck eye was half way open and clear, and the other eye is about 3/4 open so she looks less tired.  I put some AVJ and GSE in her water, gave her cooked corn mixed with butter and garlic for some major carbs, mixed it in with yogurt and went to work, we'll see how she is when I get home today.  

I hate seeing them sick, but in this instance, I am excited to FINALLY catch symptoms because it seems to knock them dead in a 24 hour period.

I also think it has something to do with the mouse problem I'm combating, and what a perplexing thing... feed them dead mice and they'll fight over them (used to own reptiles, had some in the freezer), but if they have to work for it, nuh uh!  I need to find a couple kittens that are large enough to fend off a chicken and stick them in the coop, and I'll check my traps again tonight.  Every one out is another one dead, and that's the only way to start. Poison is out, though I'm thinking there's a shelf space up top where I could lay a poison trap -- the birds have no access to that area and so I wouldn't have to worry about them getting into it. Hmmmm...

I definitely think I will be trying for sand in my coop floors by next spring, Mice wouldn't be able to bed down in it as well, I don't think. My cat population must be suffering, we didn't have mouse issues last year and this year they are TERRIBLE.

Sweetened, I have no thoughts on the dead chicks (but I can do a google-fu, or bing-machine it and see what else I can come up with??)

I do have thoughts on mice. oh. mice. they moved into my coop this winter-- it. was. bad. I finally had to the the bait, I bought one of the bait feeding stations, that the mice can go in to feed on the bait and leave but the chickens couldnt get into it at all-- it was the only thing I could think of!! and then I placed bait in the other, outside the coop areas.

my greatest victory against the mice though??? I noticed, strangely, mid-April I had NO mice whatsoever. NONE> not a dropping, sighting, frickin nada. AWESOME I thought!   Awesome it was not  

the night of the flooding here?? I saw the mama skunk taking FOUR kits back under my coop.   needless to say I am not a happy camper, fort knox has been made even tighter, and I feel like elmer fudd because I cant go out in the chicken yard to even check on them without my gun. and ya. the whole nocturnal thing? not so much. the youn'uns were out at lunchtime the other day!!

so. point of the story is, if you get a pet skunk--- and I can totally ship you at least three or four if I can catch them!!!--- you wont have mice  

Hmm... I've always [never] wanted a pet skunk....

They are in our area, and so are foxes (who picked off a guinea the other day by getting into the coop) and, for the low prices of unwanted, porcupines!

Oh and coyotes. LOTS of yotes. Say... this doesn't seem like a good idea anymore. LOL

Just think (of all that stink) how cute a lil' pet skunk would be  
I already have a name for you too. Pewy. How freaking adorable is that!!!  

Flicker Chick wrote:Just think (of all that stink) how cute a lil' pet skunk would be  
I already have a name for you too. Pewy. How freaking adorable is that!!!  

I was going to go with 'Flower' from Bambi.

And you need to get serious with those mice. You need one of these.
http://www.amazon.com/Victor-M2524-Electronic-Mouse-Trap/dp/B000E1RIUU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372429733&sr=8-1&keywords=electric+mouse+trap

I happen to have a spare I bought when they were on sale. $15 all in and it's yours.

Sweetened wrote:

Flicker Chick wrote:Just think (of all that stink) how cute a lil' pet skunk would be  
I already have a name for you too. Pewy. How freaking adorable is that!!!  

I was going to go with 'Flower' from Bambi.

Cute. Now you need two. Can't not use such good names after all.... 

Flicker Chick wrote:And you need to get serious with those mice. You need one of these.
http://www.amazon.com/Victor-M2524-Electronic-Mouse-Trap/dp/B000E1RIUU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372429733&sr=8-1&keywords=electric+mouse+trap

I happen to have a spare I bought when they were on sale. $15 all in and it's yours.

Its a date, coming out to the farm this weekend?

Funny, I think skunks are package deals!

I'm sure lanaire will set you up real good. I've recently gotten out of skunk farming myself.  

k, let's make a plan.

YAY Plans. Will text at lunch.

Flicker Chick wrote:

Sweetened wrote:

Flicker Chick wrote:Just think (of all that stink) how cute a lil' pet skunk would be  
I already have a name for you too. Pewy. How freaking adorable is that!!!  

I was going to go with 'Flower' from Bambi.

Cute. Now you need two. Can't not use such good names after all.... 

I have at least four babies... so keep thinking of names!! she needs at least two more

Flicker Chick wrote:And you need to get serious with those mice. You need one of these.
http://www.amazon.com/Victor-M2524-Electronic-Mouse-Trap/dp/B000E1RIUU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372429733&sr=8-1&keywords=electric+mouse+trap

I happen to have a spare I bought when they were on sale. $15 all in and it's yours.

  wow. I need a couple of those!! I'll have to watch for sales! would be a LOT cheaper than the bait I went through

Well isn't this interesting.

I hatched an ENOROMOUS hatch of 4 chicks, and for the first time in years and years and years, had 2 of them plonk over dead. Not at birth, but when they were sturdy enough that I do not expect them to plonk over dead.

Reading this thread, I am starting to wonder if it maybe isn't mice here too that are the problem.

Mice got into my chick starter. It is very likely there were mouse turds in the starter. One chick plonked while still in the house, in the brooder, eating possibly turd contaminated starter. The next chick plonked over after they had been moved out to the hen house. A sudden population explosion of mice means there are mouse turds in their feeder.

Mice chewed through the lid on the coffee can that I store the chick crumbles in. I set a trap in the can and caught 5 mice over 3 days. Last night I went in the hen house and mice scrambled out of the chick feeder. Rotten little monsters! I waited to see where they went, but didn't see them scurrying in the usual directions. Odd. The chick waterer and feeder sit up on a wooden box that is a nest box most of the time, but I turn it upside down and use it as a platform to set the food and water on to keep bedding out. I gingerly lifted up the platform and I bet 15 sets of mouse eyeballs stared up at me! I just set the box back down and thought, wow, time for the big guns.

Hub has a live mouse trap. IT can hold a lot of mice. It is the kind used in food production places where you must trap mice alive. Funny thing is he has never released any mice alive. For reasons that are unclear, when you get 3 or more mice in the same small area, they kill each other and eat each other. It is common to find a half eaten mouse in a trap, and it's other mice that eat it.

I am wondering, Sweetened, if my two deaths (which represent 50% of my hatch) were caused by something in the mouse poo? IT'S WAR TIME!

I agree, Miss Uno, I do highly suspect this has to do with mouse droppings like Flicker said. I’m interested to see how many my mice I have trapped over today.

I looked up whether or not deep litter attracts them and apparently it doesn’t because of the mixing. I assume they are coming in from UNDER the coop, up through the dirt and out underneath the concrete pad that houses the breeding pens as THAT’s where I see them, running across the little concrete lip. I suppose they could also be in the walls in holes I don’t see, forget spider man, Mice seem to be amazing wall scalers.

Its bad here too. We have not had a barn cat since the fall and we have had another population explosion. It was so bad last year they moved into my car and made a nest in the dash....Yep $9,000 claim to icbc. HUbby does not want that again ( Esp because we decided to trade that one in in the spring this year).

I read once that for every 1 mouse you see there are 25 you dont. So take that into account. They are dirty creature spreading all types of disease. I decided to do a mass poisioning as that seems to knock them down a bit. I filled the hen house behind their nest boxes that only the mice can get too. I lost the keys to my safe trap so I took a small cat carrier threw in 3 bags of bait shut the door and put it in with my adolescent birds where there is a major mouse infestation. The crate has holes the mice can get into but no birds.

Ugh! Pack rats in the truck are the worst! I always pay attention when the dogs look too interested in my vehicle's engine! They seem to come in six week waves of rats and mice. You think you've done it and then they are back!

Fuzzy, that's an excellent idea.  I have a couple small dog kennels around that the chicks and chickens couldn't get into.  They're also big enough that I could put the bait out of the reach of their long, prying necks.  I could also stage these outside to catch what I can as well as in the shop where they have also taken over to keep them away from the bunnies.

I will see about picking up some poison bait today. I hate to poison anything, and the thought of drowning any survivors is one I cannot bare (I'd much rather gas them, I suppose it's tit for tat). If nothing else, trap after trap after trap.

I wonder, do mice break eggs? I had some turkey eggs end up with large holes in them under a turkey hen, which seems strange as she didn't appear to eat them.

I feel the same way about poison but it does seem to be very very effective.

Yeah, I think I'll make the exception, it just needs to be done for the safety of my animals as well as us. I dont need them moving into the house because it's warm.

Oh and they will too, just wait until September when the nights get colder...

Be careful with the poison. If the mice drop any as they scurry about the birds will snap it up.

I have rats here. They found a way into a rabbit cage I had 5 wk old chicks in and killed 4 out of 7 while I was away at the poultry swap and hubby was baby-sitting. They never did that until I turned off the light and removed the paper from the sides. I have since covered said cage with small holed chicken wire. Most of my brooding pens are covered with rabbit wire, even on the bottom, so rodents can't get in.

Sweetened, if you have a rabbit wire cage throw the babies into it to protect them from the mice. Put cardboard or something on top so the mice can't drop their droppings into it.

Our rabbits are in industrial rabbit cages with wire bottoms. We see them scurrying across the top of the cages.